CompuServe Thread

CISC vs RISC

9 messages in this thread
#169212From: Philippe DesmaraisMay 9, 1995 3:11 PM
HIYA! I read in a PC magazine today that a Pentium drags when a PowerPC flies, but the Pentium actually manages to ourun the PowerPC when coupled with a video card. Does anybody understand what this means? Also, they said that the PowerPC chip is inexpensive. So what is stopping us from homegrowing a couple of PowerPC PCs for massive rendering speed? RISC outweighs CISC when it comes to generating 3D images. Although a few Pentiums cost as much as a PowerMac 8100, isn't there some weigh to turn this around? Soon? -Phil
#170665From: CCMay 18, 1995 12:03 AM
Power pc machines simply do not outperform pentium machines. The new Tritonm Pentiums are unmatched for speed. one cannot use the cisc vs risc general theory, because the ppc has cisc components and the pentiums is half risc as well. The power pc chip has many risc features, but is a child of the ibm rs6000 older risc designs which have some cisc low level instructions sets. The pentiums, have many risc features, including– branch prediction, superscaler execution, pipelining, dual instruction \data cache, seperate add\sub\ x \divide fpu, multi instructions \clock , etc, that the ppc's are just now implementing in the 604. The p6 goes even further, with features like Dynamic execution, multiple branch prediction in groups, Data flow analysis, to optimize multiple instructions, speculative execution , and out of order execution. also, the Pentiums and the p6 were built from the ground up for SMP, or multiprocessing, having the smp controllers built into the chip, not to mention p6's 256k of L2 cache in the chip, and a L3 cache of perhaps 512 on the board. The pentiums are also .35 microns, have a more advanced design, and manufacturing process,.more efficiency there are too many technaical issues to bring up here, but suffice to say that the ppc 601 has none of the above mentioned items, and the 604 only a few. Board architecture has everything to do with it as well. PPC systems like the mac have a slow outdated Nubus? and very inefficient chipsets, as opposed to the Pentium systems we sell, that include the new Intel TRITON chipset, that is PCI, has built in EIDE mode 4 dma 2 for 22 megs a sec disk transfer, and built in native digital signal processing, EDO ram, for hyperpage ram that is linked to pipelined burst syncronus cache that is 10 ns for 100 megs a sec bust memory transfers, add to that a 128 bit #9 or the new 192 bit Radius Firestorm graphics card with 3- 64 bit graphics co processors (one for each color) and scsi 3 or EIDE mode 4 drives, all on NT 3.5, and you have a unbeatable performer. Oh and 100 mps PCI network cards ! The pentium 120's are out, the p133's arrive June 12, the p150's , which will have 32k L1 cache, and some P6 tricks,-Oct and even a proposed p180 will all be here soon. Add to that a P6 at 133mhz in Nov, and a 200 mhz in Jun 96, and there is nothing , not even SGI that touches the massive open archiitecture, fast development , and performance of some 1000 companies developing Hardware for the Intel platform for ultimate performance. Dual and Quad p6's arrive before Nov, and dual p133's by Aug. And all the Glint, Rockwell , and Yamaha 3 d processors too. I could go on and on, but you get the idea. The Intel platform, coupled with Microsoft will be the future. there are simply too many companies developing new architecture and competiting with one another offering faster and better hardware and it is growing at exponential rate. SGI and MAC offer essentially a closed systems, that is heavily controlled by them. Competition is the key to growth. remember VHS vs Betamax ? Vhs was the standard and IS. The ppc also requires perfectly compiled code, being risc, and relying more on software, for claimed performance figures and as such the MAC os is only 40% natively compiled, so the risc is not being fully implemented, and all the apps suffer this as well. There are no ppc systems available to the public that will come close to a dual pentium 100\120, or a single Triton p100 system. We have sen the Chevy 3ds rendered in less than 40 seconds on the tritons we build, and that is in the background !! do not believe everyting you "hear" about risc from ads etc, without knowing all the tech details and truth about risc\cisc, because the fact is Pentiums and P6's are as risc if not more so that many "risc" claimed cpu's . That is simpy a fact, thats needed to be told to the people who have been mislead by ads etc. hope the info helps Cameron CYberImage -Running NT and INtel's best !
#170701From: Jeffrey LererMay 18, 1995 7:14 AM
Cameron – good post! i have an odd question for you. about 2 years ago someone started analyzing a DX66 and published a fascinating article. his claim was that the DX66 was actually a CISC creature with a RISC heart. When introducing the DX66 to 32bit operation, it's RISC nature could be seen. He put a DX66 alongside a SparcStation, and they benched almost identically on 32bit software. Unfortunate that I cant find the article (in the canyon of already read magazines). Any thoughts on this? Jeffrey
#171323From: CCMay 22, 1995 4:28 PM
Hi Jeffrey, I agree with the idea that the 486 was a starting point for intels cpu's having risc features in that 1 they completed 1 instruction per clock cycle 2 they featured pipelining for instruction efficiency but, they do not feature many of the more advanced risc features like the ones the pentiums do. still , the new dx66's p24d with write back l1 cache are very fast, and will keep up with some of the lesser sparcs. I never found sparcs to be a fast cpu though. glad you like my post, even though some stubborn ppc owners didn't, I guess they just do not like the truth, and want to believe the ads that caused them to buy them in the first place. good point you make about the 486 , by the way. best, Cameron CyberImage
#171409From: Jeffrey LererMay 23, 1995 6:35 AM
Cameron, <stubborn ppc owner> YAHOO, talk about redundant. IMhO, ppc was a life raft thrown out in the wake of speed boats and very choppy water. There will be no last laugh in this industry, at least in my lifetime. I have 2 new systems on my acquisition schedule. A dual P-100 this summer, and then, depending on compatibility with R5, DEC ALPHA or whichever smokiest INTEL is out at end year. GAWD, with this kind of compute power I could put a PI speculation analyzer on a back function ;] Jeffrey
#173763From: CCJun 5, 1995 2:39 PM
good choice We have sold some 75 dual Pentium systems based on the ASUS motherboard, and it is great and works in NT perfectly. best, Cameron CYberImage
#173823From: Terry MillerJun 5, 1995 9:21 PM
Cameron, > We have sold some 75 dual Pentiums < Is Cyberimage a hardware/software outlet. I am looking for someone to sell me a turnkey studio built around 3DS and a Dual Pentium 100. I will be looking into a companion program such as HASH Animation Master and some of the Yost groups IPAS bundles. I would like to buy a system complete with 3D accelerator cards, API cards Etc. etc. The problem I'm having dealing with computer dealers is, they don't really know (and I don't really either) what kinds of compatability problems, board hierarchy, IRQ conflicts and so on I can expect piecemealing this system together. It would sure help to find a dealer that specialized in animation hardware *and* software and could put the whole package together. If you're not it, any ideas where one might exist? Any information will be very helpful. Thanks Terry Miller
#174448From: CCJun 8, 1995 7:40 PM
Hi Terry, yes we are a computer dealer, specializing in strictly high end machines that run 32 bit os's like NT, OS2, WIn 95 etc, and high speed pentiums. we use SuperMciro\ ASUS pentium boards which are virtually conflict free, and are the fastest, and most upgradable pentium boards available. we custom build add on components per customers specs, and warn them about what definitely works, what usally works, and what to stay away from. we have extensive expierence in NT ad OS2, having run\ beta tested, and sold them for 2 years, as well a win 95 too. video is minimum 64 bit, moddel per customer request, we like s64 , for speed and it runs in NT\ WIn 95\ 3ds\acad\OS2 flawlessly, and we use strictly scsi cd-rom (toshiba\Nec \+sound cards other items also per customer request since my partner and I are also 3d animators part time we know what works and what does not and are very familiar with most software. hope the info helps Cameron CYberImage 310-550-1402 CYberImage
#174458From: Terry MillerJun 8, 1995 9:25 PM
Cameron, You sound like the man I need to talk to. I am going to E-mail you the specs I would like to have in the new machine. Let know where you are and your hours and I will call. Thanks, Terry