#I like the Amiga
13 messages in this thread
I like the Amiga. In fact I had my first one September 1985. But come
on, your praise is a little overblown, don't you think. I mean, in
'85, it was without a doubt revolutionary. But this is 1995. The
Amiga may still have some jokers in the stack, but it also has a lot
of catching up to do…
>>but it also has a lot of catching up to do…<<
I'll be glad to hear about it…
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
Well, I think it is beneficial to first identify the real strengths of
our beloved computer:
– tight and speedy multitasking 32 bit OS kernel.
– programmable command prompt and built-in scripting language (AREXX).
– support for modern object manipulation and services such as long file names,
etc.
– tighlty integrated custom multi-media chips (NTSC video out, animation and
audio hardware, speedy and auto-configurable 32 bit bus).
– globally supported client multi-media data file format: IFF.
– extensive, programmable and live-switching video modes serviced at the OS
level.
Now for the bad news:
– Appalling name brand recognition.
– Archaic user interface. The Workbench is ridiculous by modern standards:
uneven object support, lack of ordinary peripheral services such as print
spooler and other system events, unfriendly system configuration utilities…
– Unacceptable STANDARD screen refresh rates. This one really kills the
machine. I find it embarrassing to show a static Amiga screen next to that of
an ordinary 486 or Pentium PC with 2MB VRAM PCI graphics accelerator.
– Lack of OS memory protection. Any one app can bring the whole thing down to
its knees. Windows has the same problem, although the Amiga is in a worse
position, since there are proportionately many more misbehaved apps. The sad
thing here, is that it's almost a given to guru frequently. Don't argue this
point. Please. Let's be honest, OK?
– Unfair but real lack of hardware and software vendor support. Say, I really
like that new printer, dear manufacturer. Do you have an Amiga driver for it?
The number one thing to work on, before releasing anything new, is on
PERCEPTION. That starts with high refresh rate screens and a smoothed-out
Workbench. The LCD (Lowest Common Denominator) must be set high from the get
go. The reason the Amiga got a foot in the door in the first place was because
it offered more and in some ways much better for the money at the time (up to
1992). Although it could possibly succeed at a premium price level, this would
have to be accompanied by flawless customer solutions in niche areas such as
video or kiosks, for instance. I don't believe Escom has the expertise or the
resources to compete with the likes of Silicon Graphics at this point. So that
leaves more features and capabilities for less money. And I mean F-A-S-T. The
window of last opportunity is closing right now, if not already so!
>>- Appalling name brand recognition.
Agreed.
>>- Archaic user interface.
That depends. I hear PCpeople *laughing* at it while other PCpeople *love* it.
I guess it has more to do with personal taste. After a whole day of working
with windows I find working with the Amiga workbench quite relaxing.
>>uneven object support,
What do you mean?
>>lack of ordinary peripheral services such as print spooler and other system
events<<
Agreed for the spooler. What about *other* events?
>>unfriendly system configuration utilities…<<
*DON'T* tell me you prefer the “configuration panel'' Windows style! Where I
work *everyone* agrees on the fact that the Amiga system is much more user
friendly, even the PC people.
>>- Unacceptable STANDARD screen refresh rates.
Agreed and I'd like it changed too. IF AND ONLY IF the PAL/NTSC modes remain
available as a standard choice. Although, I use DoublePal Hires Noflicker and I
am *very* excited about it.
>>- Lack of OS memory protection.
Agreed and yet, not. As a programmer I *love* the way the Amiga does it. But I
could, not wholeheartedly though, agree with an optional protection.
>>since there are proportionately many more misbehaved apps.
Agreed. Although I don't know why. I remember the scandal we had because of
errors in Lattice C *and* I remember I had to forget a project I have been
working for about a year because of errors in MicroSoft's compilers (on the PC
and the Mac) But I guess I have to agree. I am not quite sure it has something
to do with the quality of the applications though.
>>- Unfair but real lack of hardware and software vendor support. Say, I really
like that new printer, dear manufacturer. Do you have an Amiga driver for it?<<
I don't like to admit it but yes I have to agree. It seemed like a conspiracy
sometimes.
>>The number one thing to work on, before releasing anything new, is on
PERCEPTION.<<
TOTALLY agreed.
>> That starts with high refresh rate screens<<
Agreed.
>>smoothed-out Workbench. <<
Grumble. Although I would be ready to compromise and accept an *ugly*
windows-style interface if that could make the amiga survive.
>>So that leaves more features and capabilities for less money.<<
That *could* be real easy. Even now. I have seen a Silicon Graphics Indigo in
an instute where I teach. It costs about six times the price of an Amiga
4000/40 and I was disgusted with the quality.
>>The window of last opportunity is closing right now, if not already so!<<
<weeping> I fear you're right.
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
>- Archaic user interface.
>>That depends. I hear PCpeople *laughing* at it while other PCpeople *love*
it. I guess it has more to do with personal taste. After a whole day of working
with windows I find working with the Amiga workbench quite relaxing.
Well, if you look at from a task switching stand point, it's kind of robust.
But that has all to do with the multi-tasking. What I mean by "archaic" and
"uneven object support" is the lack of consistency in many operations. You
might not notice it as a programmer, but things like having to switch to
directory lists "by file name" to actually be able to easily find files (those
chuncky and ectlectic sized icons are cute, but…) isn't likely to convert
droves of people. Startup file configurations are exhausting, while those
cryptic property command lines either require you to take out the manuals or
most of the time don't work because the app doesn't support the parameters
(which could be entirely proprietary). There are so many of the quirks that it
is valid to say it's archaic. Now, don't get me wrong. There's still plenty to
like and one must have respect for it, once one realizes it really hasn't
changed much since 1985! The bottom line: unless your a long standing Amiga
user, there is a real urge for improvement.
>lack of ordinary peripheral services such as print spooler and other system
events
>>Agreed for the spooler. What about *other* events?
Well, for instance, trappable system events such as closing a screen,
formatting a floppy, you name it. For a multi-media computer not to
make bloops and whams, for instance, upon such an event is weak. Now,
I'm sure there's some enthusiastic hacker that has a PD program out
there for x,y and z events, but that's not global support and easily
accessible by new users. Besides, experience indicates that loading
the system with a bunch of PD hacks is not advisable. Say, you're
using your computer for *real* work.
>- Lack of OS memory protection.
>>Agreed and yet, not. As a programmer I *love* the way the Amiga does it. But
I could, not wholeheartedly though, agree with an optional protection.
I don't want to sound to harsh, but an "optional" protection? Doesn't that
defeat the point?
>smoothed-out Workbench.
>>Grumble. Although I would be ready to compromise and accept an *ugly*
windows-style interface if that could make the amiga survive.
Well, nothing prevents from being once again as advanced and revolutionary as
it was in 1985. Right? Just add a full decade of exponential computer science,
interface design and enabling technologies to the mixture. How's that grab you?
Besides, Windows isn't that ugly and Win95 certainly can be considered
attractive.
Anyway, I don't want to sound too aggressive with you. It's kinda nice carrying
on accross the Atlantic like this. But this enterprise of reviving the Amiga
requires great dexterity and diligence. Un super tour-de-force, n'est-ce pas?
Christian
>>Windows isn't that ugly<<
Huh? I agree that the Amiga could be greatly improved, but I think Win3.1 is
just about the ugliest thing there is. Win95, which is in appearance a
knockoff of OS/2, is very acceptable.
Mr. Zombie
>>Huh? I agree that the Amiga could be greatly improved, but I think Win3.1 is
just about the ugliest thing there is. Win95, which is in appearance a
knockoff of OS/2, is very acceptable.<<
Now come on! I use Dashboard (a Program Manager shell replacement) and there's
nothing terribly *ugly* about it. It's definitely not a Next O/S, but it's not
that bad. Essentially an Amiga Workbench at high-res (1024 x 768).
Well, sure, you can ignore the Program Manager, and all the other shortcomings,
to a certain extent. I'm not saying the WB is perfect either, but I just hate
Windoze.
Mr. Zombie
>>I use Dashboard (a Program Manager shell replacement)<<
I ignore the pc altogether and it's wonderful <G>
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
>>Well, if you look at from a task switching stand point, it's kind of robust.
But that has all to do with the multi-tasking.<<
Gee! You got my achilles heel. The multi-tasking was the main reason I bought
my first Amiga!
>>You might not notice it as a programmer, but things like having to switch to
directory lists "by file name" to actually be able to easily find files (those
chuncky and ectlectic sized icons are cute, but…) isn't likely to convert
droves of people.<<
Well, honestly, I think I have to disagree. The Mac does it pretty much the
same way, only flatter *and* in Windows you have to start the File Manager to
do all that. Many people don't like the thing.
>>Startup file configurations are exhausting<<
True, but do you really think autoexec.bat and config.sys are that refreshing?
>>while those cryptic property command lines either require you to take out the
manuals or most of the time don't work because the app doesn't support the
parameters (which could be entirely proprietary).<<
Same thing under Windows, in my experience. And ever tried win.ini, system.ini
*.ini ?
>>There are so many of the quirks that it is valid to say it's archaic. Now,
don't get me wrong<<
I won't get you wrong. And I am ready to agree it's archaic. It hasn't *really*
fundamentally changed. But the differences between the Windows version were, in
my view, even *extremely* much smaller.
>>Well, for instance, trappable system events such as closing a screen,
formatting a floppy, you name it.<<
As a programmer I can do anything I want of course. But I agree that everything
could be smoother. Windows has it's defaults too however. I never saw a windows
peecee automatically recognizing a disk that was inserted in the drive *and*
recognizing automatically the format of it…
>>I don't want to sound to harsh, but an "optional" protection? Doesn't that
defeat the point?<<
Heehee, of course. The trouble is that I see the Amiga as an organic whole and
not as a structure of protected small parts..
>>Well, nothing prevents from being once again as advanced and revolutionary as
it was in 1985. Right? Just add a full decade of exponential computer science,
interface design and enabling technologies to the mixture. How's that grab
you?<<
The day such a computer comes at a price the normal Amiga, peecee, mac user can
afford I change immediately!
>>Besides, Windows isn't that ugly
At least to my taste it is *very* ugly and childish.
>>Win95 certainly can be considered attractive.<<
I haven't seen it, I can't speak.
>>Anyway, I don't want to sound too aggressive with you. It's kinda nice
carrying on accross the Atlantic like this.<<
I have no intentions whatsoever to sound aggressive. And yes, it's kind a nice
chatting across the Atlantic.
>>But this enterprise of reviving the Amiga requires great dexterity and
diligence. Un super tour-de-force, n'est-ce pas?<<
Malheureusement, je suis le dernier a le contredire.
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
Anywho. We can debate this stuff all-year round and not come to any
constructive conclusions. The point to make about all this is, if the
Amiga just represents a marginal alternative from a technical
standpoint (circa 1995), why bother with it?
This is precisely why, as it stands in all its fanatic glory, the
Amiga doesn't stand a chance of survival. The only way it can, is to
offer solid value that simply cannot be matched elsewhere at this
point of time. I'm not talking about extra MIPS or MFLOPS (although
that doesn't hurt), but about solutions to actual needs out there.
The Amiga has a credible reputation in video and CBT/Kiosks. Exploit
that angle to the max, with solutions "clefs-en-main" (turnkey). If
it hooks, then, and only then, they may have the luxury of branching
out and even competing with the Big Bad Boys.
I predict that if Escom just stamps out the same boxes with '060
processors, we'll be witnessing the machine's second death by this
time next year. The only way out and up, is for them to demonstrate
superior marketing savvy AND cyberspaced innovation spirits.
The problem, is that every Dick, John and Harry thinks he/she has the solution
– haha, like me, right? – but that only a small fraction of this idea pool
would actually result in survival and possibly market gain. It's like betting
at the horse track, but you're only allowed to place on chronic losers. The
trick then, is to pick a horse/jockey combo, pump them up on steroids and
one-minded training, and bet the house on them. There's no sense in betting a
little bit here, a little bit there, because… try to bear with me here
…you've just had a heart attack and the doctors don't give you much more time
to live.
So where are the goods? Where's our "Media Blaster", "E=MC2" or whatever.
Hasn't it been already a full year it's been comatose (and not in too good
shape before that either)?
>>We can debate this stuff all-year round and not come to any constructive
conclusions.<<
I agree. That's why I always pleaded to have at least five competitive
platforms that are pretty much the same, yet different enough to co-exist. That
way there would at least be a possibility for evolution. The way I feel it is
that the Amiga dated 1985 has been the last significant step in the evolution
of microcomputing until now. I always hear about the revolution here, the
revolution there, but… I never saw them.
I am a “conservative'' person. I don't buy a computer because it's “hype'' or
because everyone has it. I just buy a computer because I can use it the way my
personality dictates me to use it. The only 'puter that fits is the Amiga,
mainly because of it's *wonderful* multi-tasking. It's saturday now. I go to
work tomorrow because I will be able to use about 12 windows peecees at the
same time. I most often use about five at the same time, not more: I am not a
sportsmen and I hate running from one 'puter to another. That's why I prefer
the Amiga: very good multi-tasking and as a bonus 262144 colors at the same
time (I know, I am a fool, my peecees have a tremendous 256 colors) *if* I
really want to do something graphical and I have some good sounds from it
whereas my peecees say “bleep'' “quirk''.
I have not that many reasons for buying an Amiga: it is, at least in Belgium,
the best computer money can buy when you don't want to spend more than the
price of the most expensive Amiga that we can buy. In other words, it is the
cheapest computer with those specifications.
I do agree however that the outlook for the Amiga seems to look grim. I am
finishing a new program for it though and am not considering to change machines
*if* it continues.
Bart Van Bockstaele at 100574.2352@compuserve.com
… On AutoPilot and Amiga all the way from Belgium …
>>That's why I always pleaded to have at least five competitive platforms that
are pretty much the same, yet different enough to co-exist. That way there
would at least be a possibility for evolution. The way I feel it is that the
Amiga dated 1985 has been the last significant step in the evolution of
microcomputing until now. I always hear about the revolution here, the
revolution there, but… I never saw them.<<
–> Agreed 100%
>>That's why I prefer the Amiga: very good multi-tasking and as a bonus 262144
colors at the same time (I know, I am a fool, my peecees have a tremendous 256
colors) *if* I really want to do something graphical and I have some good
sounds from it whereas my peecees say “bleep'' “quirk''.<<
–> Are you using 1992 "peecees"? This 100Mhz Pentium here has 16M colors in
1024 x 768, and the Ensoniq 16 bit wavetable board inside it cetainly beats the
4 voice 8 bit of the Amiga (although its the best 8 bit I've heard!). I had to
do a little TWAIN 24 bit scanning and photo-retouching with PhotoShop this
weekend. Certainly a little graphical, I think.
The area in which the PC really sucks is with the stupid resource stack
limitations. I've got a 32 MB RAM monster here, but I don't run SideKick for
Windows in the background because I'll run out of "resources" real fast. It's
really aggravating to have to reboot WIN 5 times a day to recycle it…