#Sick of Saperstein/Cole
33 messages in this thread
Am I the only one on this forum who is sick to death of Saperstein's and
Cole's negative posts or is everybody hybernating?! We all read english and
I think we all get that Cole/Saperstein hate the Flyer and hate Newtek. Now
can they just stop with the negativity long enough so this group can progress.
Free speech is one thing, counterproductivity is another. Newtek blew it on
many levels with the Flyer, they are trying desparately to right those wrongs
for their user base. I know this for a fact as I am in contact with them
daily. In spite of what Saperstein et al may think there are many happy Flyer
users out there and if they're on Compuserve I can't believe that they aren't
bored to tears reading Saperstein's negative responses to each and every
positive Flyer post. Enough already!!
I sample this group daily and see a Saperstein negative retort to virtually
every post, except of course his chubby little gladhandings to Cole.
Saperstein, hear me loud and clear — you're petty, dull and mean spirited.
And I'm sure you'll be the first to defend my right to post this as you jump on
Newtek daily with the same ferocity.
"you're petty, dull and mean spirited."
Now there's a good way to start another thread _vital_ to NewTek users.
Why don't _you_ learn how to 'SKIP' messages, rather than berating other
people.
I for one, enjoy listening to people argue the (relative) merits of the
Flyer.
I DO NOT enjoy 'petty, dull and mean spirited' personal attacks on others.
My vote: Keep on screamin' Jerry, Wayne, & others!
(…I know, I could have just skipped this message, but it sounded like
you were asking for a vote, no?)
Keep On Toastin'
Erik Flom – ELF Works 3D Construction Co.
Thanks, Erik.
Jerry
Hi,
That was kindda what I was talking about earlier and got beatup for it so……
Your problems and personality clash with them are well noted. Jerry's Jerry and
he has his own opinion about things. Now Wayne Cole is another story—he is
the Engineer's Engineer and knows what he's talking about. Alpha Paint is a
award winning program partly because of his input! The Flyer does have problems
and I firmly believe, in fact I'll go one step further and say, that NewTek
will get to the bottom of these problems. What's needed now is good solid info
from both user's and NT! It's not enough to say "Gee Gober duh, it don't
work!?"
What's the config.? What version #?, What repetable steps lead to the problem?
If we ALL work together we can turn this around in weeks instead of months.
Venting has its place too and I understand that it is flustrating when
something works fine on one system and not on another. There are those here,
and darlings you know who you are, who like to just stir up a bunch of s#!* to
see the sparks fly—THOSE PEOPLE _STILL_ NEED TO GET A LIFE.
Let's _all_ try to keep it constructive, help NT get it done and not expect the
moon.
Thanks,
Tom Patrick
President
Reel Communications Inc.
"There are those here, and darlings you know who you are, who like to just stir
up a bunch of s#!* to see the sparks fly—THOSE PEOPLE _STILL_ NEED TO GET A
LIFE."
Hey, Tom, make our lives better: get a definitive answer from NewTek on the
drive issue. Get more answers about what will be fixed and when.
Do all that, Tom, and the complaint would drop to zero.
Or don't you understand that?
By the way, what's the Reel Communications tag?
Jerry
Hi,
I am now in the same boat as you and the other users. waiting for the word on
the drives and other things. I'll sure do what I can and I _do_ understand how
you can feel the way you do. All I've ever tried to say is that we _all_ need
to give them the COMPLETE story with as much info as poss. (vs. "Gee it don't
work!" I do think things are getting better and that you and others have really
become helpful in getting NT to give out the info and/or figure out the
problems! For that and the great Fonts—I thanks ya! 😉
Thanks,
TP @ IVT
"All I've ever tried to say is that we _all_ need to give them the COMPLETE
story with as much info as poss. (vs. "Gee it don't work!""
Geez, Tom, I think that nearly all of us have supplied abundant detail with
the posts of our respective problems. Subsequent discussion might not have
contained the details, but I do think that nearly all of us have provided
details when we've had problems.
"I do think things are getting better and that you and others have really
become helpful in getting NT to give out the info and/or figure out the
problems!"
I do think that NewTek has become more responsive than they were in the past,
particularly with Chuck's continuing presence here. But we still don't have
concrete answers on the really hard questions on subjects like the drives. Yes,
NewTek has more or less "officially" announced that the drives they "certified"
really aren't capable of acheiving D2 quality – a hell of a thing to tell
people *after* they purchased the drives. NewTek, I think, really should be
announcing how they intend to deal with people who are encountering stuttering
problems or really expected the D2 quality with the "certified" drives they
purchased. (The D2 issue does not affect me. I am just bothered by the softness
in the Flyer video.)
Finally, I really think that NewTek should post as soon as possible their
specification for the 4.1 upgrade – what features they fully expect to have
implemented and properly operating, what features might be there and, probably
of greatest importance, what features they don't intend to implement with this
next release.
That last list is, in my opinion, the most important. If for instance, there
will be no provision for seeing the head and tail frames of two adjacent clips,
my entire Amiga setup goes up for immediate sale. That particular feature is
that important to me. (Likewise, at this point, I'd be satisfied with a
third-party implementation if it were priced reasonably.)
I was kind of thinking today if NewTek wouldn't just be better off telling
all their Amiga clients to forget it – and just buy the PC version at a
super-low price when it becomes available. Even with the Escom purchase, I
personally don't think there's much of a future for Amiga products. Too much
water has passed under the bridge, so to speak.
Whatever. In any event, I think it would be best for all concerned if NewTek
were to start providing solid answers as soon as possible to the questions and
complaints that have been raised here.
Jerry
Jerry,
I don't share your pessimism for the future of Amiga. The opportunity for an
even more robust user base and soft/hardware development than ever before may
be just around the corner.
I think that NewTek heard from so many of us in regards to ertain features
including lastframe/firstframe views, that I am hopeful that it will show up,
if not in 4.1 then 4.12 (5 weeks later <g>).
Regards,
Gary
Hi,
I just got the JVC flyer with the article you wrote—outstanding! BTW-I too
believe the glass is half full. I noticed that Escom has a press conf. in the
books for 5/31 to announce the new co. I'll look forward to reading more of
your work.
Tom Patrick
Tom,
I have written mostly for Wedding Videography Today. Do you get that? There are
quite a few Toaster users in the wedding/event field.
Regards,
Gary
Hi,
Yes I do get WVT and I think its good. But this was I piece you did _for_ JVC I
think. It's their special edition newsletter "Playback" and lists you and your
biz name. I found it very well thought out and made me want to go out and buy a
JVC system 🙂 Have you approached VTU about doing an article or two?
Tks,
Tom Patrick
Yes, That was for JVC. They wanted me to write for them after seeing my review
of the system in WVT.
I haven't approached VTU or they me. 'listenin' Jim?
Regards,
Gary
"The opportunity for an even more robust user base and soft/hardware
development than ever before may be just around the corner."
I guess it's a "is the glass half-full or is it half-empty" kind of thing.
With the momentum lost from the Commodore collapse and drawn out sale of
assets, I think the Amiga's time in the market has passed. That's just an
opinion, of course, and only the course of future events will really determine
the issue.
"I think that NewTek heard from so many of us in regards to ertain features
including lastframe/firstframe views, that I am hopeful that it will show up,
if not in 4.1 then 4.12 (5 weeks later"
I share your faith – but probably to a lesser extent. <G>
Jerry
Jerry,
>Geez, Tom, I think that nearly all of us have supplied abundant detail with
the posts of our respective problems. Subsequent discussion might not have
contained the details, but I do think that nearly all of us have provided
details when we've had problems.<
That's not what I and others have observed.
I am sure of one thing—most users are or will be, happy with the Flyer. I
talk to too many people , first hand, to believe otherwise! Sorry I don't have
time for a more in-depth discussion. Do keep it coming though, try to keep it
in a positive tone and do try to provide more technical info! Thanks.
All the Best,
TP
"That's not what I and others have observed."
Well, that differs from my observations.
Jerry
Jerry,
Please understand, I'm sure not saying that you or others are not having
problems. There's lots of gremlins in DTVland and in Flyerland! Perhaps now
would be a good time–(in _this_ thread) for you to lay out _exactly_ what has
gone on between you and NT in the past (with why the 3.1 Font Bank fonts are
not included with 4.0- people ask me that one all-the-time) ;), what your
problems are with the Toaster/Flyer now and what you'd like to see done in the
future that's fair? Maybe "Jerry's Top 10 Flyer Things to Fix"? Your Config so
folks can compare? How you've worked around some of the problems? Stuff like
that…what do ya think? You have some valuable insights and I think it would
be a shame if your problems and the minority of others or a few personality
clashes overshadow what is a really great invention and/or get in the way of
the free flow of info. BTW I was just over at my friends and his Flyer works
great with 9GB SeaGate Drives!! It ain't all good—but it ain't all bad
either. More importantly he just made money with it!
Thanks,
Tom Patrick
P.S. Lots of new folks are asking about how they can get the PS fonts that came
with 3.1 does The Font Bank offer them? Where should they call? How much?
"Perhaps now would be a good time–(in _this_ thread) for you to lay out
_exactly_ what has gone on between you and NT in the past (with why the 3.1
Font Bank fonts are not included with 4.0- people ask me that one
all-the-time)"
It's all a matter of public record, Tom. If you're that interested, look it
up. You keep dragging up this red herring as if it has something to do with
the Flyer problems – it doesn't. Frankly I think your connection with
Innovision, a company with a heavy investment in continued success of NewTek's
products would tend to be a greater influence on your comments.
"Maybe "Jerry's Top 10 Flyer Things to Fix"?"
If you'd spend more time reading my posts instead of trying to squelch every
criticism of NewTek, you'd see that I have only three primary concerns: 1)
showing the head and tail frames of successive clips for editing action, 2)
concern that the drives supplied are somehow unsuitable for use with the Flyer
and will need to be replaced (and this includes the stuttering issue), and 3)
better audio editing facilities.
Secondary concerns include 1) backup to tape, and 2) the softness of the
image (which is probably a part of the drive question).
"I think it would be a shame if your problems and the minority of others or a
few personality clashes overshadow what is a really great invention and/or get
in the way of the free flow of info"
Tom, what do you mean a "minority of others"? Happy, satisfied, ecstatic
Flyer users have been in a definite minority here – except by reference to this
friend, that friend or even hundreds of other people, none of whom happen to be
online.
This "BTW I was just over at my friends and his Flyer works great with 9GB
SeaGate Drives!!" just isn't convincing when you compare it first-hand reports
of people with the same drives who are online here.
People who are pleased with the Flyer here have said so, Tom, but the numbers
sure aren't anything to write home about.
But the bottomline, Tom, is that the Flyer ain't done yet – and NewTek has
left a lot of questions unanswered. When NewTek delivers on its promises or at
least provides a firm idea of when they will along with a program for helping
people who bought their original "certified" drives, I think you'll see the
criticism diminish, if not disappear.
Folks are just asking to get what they paid for, Tom – and it amazes me that
there are people here who suggest that folks should be "patient",
understanding, even forgiving.
Jerry
Jerry,
Boy you sure know how to twist things around. It's funny too because I agree
with some, maybe even most, of your points on improvements for the Flyer, but
you sure took a few cheap, nasty shots at me and the company I work for. BTW,
Most of us work for a living and don't have the time to engage in long drawn
out conversations with people who obviously have an ax to grind. I will
respond, this once, because what you've said is not only NOT TRUE—it's
unfair. Additionally you are really being counter productive with the snyed
coments and enuendo and all I've tried to be and have been is fair to you and
tried to be supportive! It's a shame you couldn't temper your emotions as it
would really help the flow of information. It will be up to members of the
forum here how long they will allow you to throw mud on every single post. You
know there are those here who DO want to talk with each other and don't want to
hear _your_ problems or at least your vendictiveness and to be really frank it
just isn't POLITE. Perhaps you get some perverse pleasure from all this
garbage? It really is devisive and I would think that you'd have better things
to do with your time. Why is it others, both here and eleswhere, ARE having
great success with the Flyer while you sit on your butt here and do nothing but
complain? What do you do with the Flyer/Toaster-anything? Why won't you list
your config. for Chuck and your own particular problems instead of trying to be
in everyones business? Is it so hard for you to accept that it my be your own
ineptness that's at the root of your problems? Additionally, with your
additude, is it any wonder why NT and those here and others don't want to hear
it? I've tried to give you the benefit- by wanting to believe it may be your
_Flyer_ unit, but I'm begining to feel that it's YOU and that it will never be
good enough for YOU. It's proabley at least _some_ operator malfunction becuase
I know what I see and what my own experience with the Flyer has been. Are there
problems? Sure! Are people working around them and making moeny with the
Flyer—You bet! Is it done yet—well even NT says that it's not and that
developemtn is ongoing. ANY new technology goes thru a shake out phase and with
your background I know you know this whihc leads me to believe that its your
_sour grapes_ that drive your constant rants and raves.
>"It's all a matter of public record, Tom. If you're that interested, look it
up. You keep dragging up this red herring as if it has something to do with
the Flyer problems – it doesn't. Frankly I think your connection with
Innovision, a company with a heavy investment in continued success of NewTek's
products would tend to be a greater influence on your comments."<
Where should we look it up Jerry? Your past problems with NewTek are _NOT_ a
matter of public record and I could really care less…. I thought I'd give you
an honest opportunity to air your feelings and instead you lashed out at me.
Jerry, _YOU_ feel cheated by NewTek and you _have_ been gunning for them since
day 1. AND you in fact told me so a long time ago which I'm sure you'll
conviently forget! Your feelings show thru loud and clear… Your reasons for
not including the 3.1 PS Font Bank fonts are your own and I could care less
_except_ that people DO ask me about it all the time and AGAIN I thought it
might be nice if you could fill us in on something positive like your upcoming
release of your fonts. Addtionally my thoughts are my own and not my company's
nor my employer. InnoVision's main customers are those that already own the
Toaster anyway so… while NT's continued growth would be nice it's not
esential. And Alpha Paint has been, and continues to be, more and more popular.
InnoVision also has a very fine PC based product called PrimeTime.
>"If you'd spend more time reading my posts instead of trying to squelch
every criticism of NewTek…"<
A) Nobody has _that_ much time!
B) I've got better things to with my time and have also been very critcal of NT
in the past so this also just isn't true!
>"This "BTW I was just over at my friends and his Flyer works great with 9GB
SeaGate Drives!!" just isn't convincing when you compare it first-hand reports
of people with the same drives who are online here."<
I know what I saw and I resent the insinuation.
>"But the bottomline, Tom, is that the Flyer ain't done yet"<
No kidding really?
>"I think you'll see the criticism diminish, if not disappear."
I've always maintained that a certain amount of construtive critizism is good
and help makes better products. It worked for Alpha Paint!
>"Folks are just asking to get what they paid for, Tom – and it amazes me that
there are people here who suggest that folks should be "patient",
understanding, even forgiving."<
Granted and I wouldn't have it any other way— but continually beating NT and
others up over the state of things does no good and won't help you right the
percieved wrongs you feel NewTek has done to you in the past. EVERYONE agrees
that things are not "there" yet and from what I, and others who know more than
I, are able to find out NT is hard at work and will eventually be completley
successful. Let's put it another way…_some_ of the Font Bank Fonts don't work
in the ToasterCG/MONTAGE/Alpha and other applications, even those that should
work, does that mean that _all_ of them are bad? No it just means that there
are some problems to be worked out. I hope you get some of your problems worked
out too! I, for one, won't be responding to you further if all you have to
offer is bad vibes and personal attacks.
Goodbye and Take Care,
Tom Patrick
Well, to be fair, it *is* technically true that you have a vested interest.
Otoh, Jerry has made the point more than enough times for us all to know where
he's coming from, and I think you've made no bones about your position and
haven't concealed anything. Still, I'd have to agree with him on his other
point–without saying that you're lying, by any means–that it's all very well
to cite numerous satisfied Flyer owners, but what counts is who talks here.
Paul
Jerry,
I got to say that if I had selled out $$ on a system that did not work I would
be as upset as you and Wayne.
Personally I do not know why we put up with buggy products in the first place,
after all if Ford sold a car that the wheels dropped off every time you
cournered, no one would say *give the guys a break* or *they will get it right
in the end*
Hell I know what would happen if I turned in a job to a client saying *sorry
its not right but its just a bug, here is my invoice*!!!
Ken
"Hell I know what would happen if I turned in a job to a client saying *sorry
its not right but its just a bug, here is my invoice*!!!"
Yeah – but in this instance we're supposed to be nice boys and girls and say
nothing.
Personally my patience is wearing thin. With personal attacks and ad hominems
of the kind contained in this thread, I'm more inclined to simply suggest that
all of us who are concerned about having to shell out more money for drives
that *might* work with the Flyer simply sue for recission and refund.
Obviously by not advertising all my Amiga related stuff for sale, I've
expressed my belief that NewTek is working on solving the Flyer problems.
However, I just can't agree with NewTek's defenders that silence about the
problems is justified or somehow more "productive" than voicing dissatisfaction
with the Flyer's present state.
They advertised and offered the Flyer for sale. They took the money. Only
after the product was delivered and the credit cards processed and the checks
cashed did NewTek start saying anything about the drive technology being
inadequate to the task – and suggesting that their customers start thinking
about buying more new drives.
None of us here who own Flyers are NewTek's business partners or
co-venturers. We're customers who acquired a product we were led to believe
would accomplish a specific task – and the product simply doesn't work as
advertised.
Beats me why there a few people around who feel that we shouldn't even talk
about that very basic reality.
Jerry
On the contrary, Saperstein and Cole are two of the most humorous and
intelligent posters here, in my book. Both have offered me good advice in
the past, and both leave me laughing hysterically atleast once a week. One
man's negativity is another's sense of humor, I guess.
Steve
Image Dynamics – Chicago
"On the contrary, Saperstein and Cole are two of the most humorous and
intelligent posters here, in my book."
Why thank you! (Who do I make that check out to? <G>)
Jerry
Kevin,
I look forward to my daily dose of Saperstein and Cole. Their intense bursts
have, as far, as I can see only aimed at NEWTEK or persons really pissed at
them – and I can hardly blame them in either case.
I am generally a very positive person, and I guess I/one could read their posts
as somewhat negative. However, in fact, I see their posts as providing some
pretty realistic perspectives on business and technical issues that together
with what the rest of us contribute to the cology of ideas brewing here.
I agree, it would be useful if the flyer threads had a healthier timbre to
them.
But if NEWTEK is able to turn this around, it may very well be due the
persistence of those here and elsewhere who raised not only criticisms but
expectations for their performance.
There have been a few hopeful signs from NEWTEK. It would be extremely helpful
to get a big sign in the next little while – like a working 4.1 version that
enables us to use our premium priced, NT warrantied Seagates. Within that
context, we all would be able to begin more threads focused on "wish lists" and
the exchange of clever ways to achieve certain effects rather than our
collective bewailing of deep bugs.
Regards,
Michael
I certainly look forward to that day.
Michael
Kevin,
Although Wayne and Jerry can be prone to overstatement and histrionics, they're
voices are a valuable (though sometimes annoying and repetitive) contibution to
the forum.
Regards,
Gary
Well said!
TP
"Saperstein, hear me loud and clear — you're petty, dull and mean spirited.
And I'm sure you'll be the first to defend my right to post this as you jump on
Newtek daily with the same ferocity. "
Oh, I'll absolutely defend your right to post messages that demonstrate your
inability to deal with people who disagree with you.
One of the advantages of living in our society is that one is able to say
pretty much what they want – even though there are many small-minded people who
would prefer the power to silence others simply because they don't like what is
being said.
"We all read english and I think we all get that Cole/Saperstein hate the Flyer
and hate Newtek."
Oddly enough, you share at least one trait in common with those who would
censor: the use of misrepresentations to bolster your case.
I certainly don't hate NewTek – I have expressed on many occasions my belief
that NewTek has the ability to make the Flyer a usable product. I just think
the process will go faster if unhappy users are vocal about the problems and
limitations they've encountered. In our society, incidentally, the right to
express an opinion is taken pretty much for granted. Thankfully we have people
like you around to remind us that it's a very fragile right that must be
defended at all times.
"In spite of what Saperstein et al may think there are many happy Flyer users
out there and if they're on Compuserve I can't believe that they aren't bored
to tears reading Saperstein's negative responses to each and every positive
Flyer post."
It's really strange, Kevin, how many traits you share in common with people
unable to deal with differing opinions.
The ad hominem assaults. The misrepresentations. And now the marshalling of
invisible legions who support your view – but are silent.
This Forum is open to all, Kevin. Why not invite your happy Flyer using
friends to participate here? That would be a lot more convincing then your
unsupported assertions that they do indeed exist. And it would definitely be
productive in that they could help others with the benefit of their superior
knowledge.
"I know this for a fact as I am in contact with them [NewTek] daily."
So Wayne was right then in labelling you as one of what he calls the
"annointed"? Many people weren't able to get calls returned from NewTek, but
not you. NewTek had no consistent representation here until they got wind of
just how high the noise level had gotten here. Much to their credit, we now
have regular visits from Chuck Baker (one of the best online and phone support
people I've ever met) who's giving us good information.
If that's the result of a "counter-productive" effort, I'll take ten more,
please.
I remember, of course, Kevin, that you claimed to be a Flyer beta-tester.
With that admission, the level of your competence is clearly and unmistably
established.
To paraphrase:
Kevin, hear me loud and clear – your comments
at best are amusing, at worst nothing more
than transparent boosterism – and about as valuable
as last year's newspaper.
Interestingly enough, Kevin, I've seen you launch your personal attacks, make
your misrepresentations, speak for your invisible legions of silent supporters
– but do damned little in the way of helping people with their Flyer problems.
I'm pretty sure I know why – judging from the product that resulted in part
from your beta-testing.
Jerry
I couldn't agree with you more regarding the Sap(Saperstein). But it is not
just Newtek he doesn't like. He doesn't like the Amiga or most anything else.
For over 6 months these sigs and the readers of the Sigs have had to endure his
constant complaining. He isn't content unless he is complaining and making
everyone suffer with his endless tirades. Why doesn't he just move to other
platforms and sigs? I rarely post but have felt this way about his
non-constructive postings, but have been hesitant to say so because it would
only mean more dribble from him. Oh well, some things eventually need to be
said in the hopes of fostering positive change ( and no, Sap, your dribble does
not foster positive change ).
"He isn't content unless he is complaining and making everyone suffer with his
endless tirades."
Don't you know how to ignore postings, Bernie?
I get a kick out of guys like you who can't tolerate a negative word about
your love object.
I suspect my investment in Amiga-related equipment is vastly greater than
yours.
"Why doesn't he just move to other platforms and sigs?"
You sure don't read the postings that seem to upset you so much, do you?
We run Intel, Mac's and Amiga's here, Bernie, and I don't worship any of
them.
"I rarely post"
Personally I think we're all better off for that if all you can contribute is
a personal attack or two.
Jerry
Hey, Kevin!
I just got a truly great idea!
Why don't you buy all my Amiga gear and your pal Bernie can buy Wayne Cole's?
That would solve all your problems. I'd have no reason to be here and you'd
be the happy owner of another Toaster/Flyer system.
Let's see you put your money where your mouth is, Kevin. After all, if you're
short of pocket cash right now, go borrow the money like some of the people
here did. Certainly you'd have no problems reselling all the gear if it's as
good as you say it is.
How about it, Kevin? Fair market price I figure will amount to $15,000 –
$20,000 for everything I have here.
How 'bout it, Kevin? What do they call it?
Yeah . . . put up or shut up.
Jerry
!! WOW !!
There's smoke comin' out of my monitor!!
Geez . . . and all I want the guy to do is write me a check. <G>
Jerry
>>Saperstein, hear me loud and clear — you're petty,<<
Kevin,
How can you make your fingers type something like this? This man, along
with me, Wayne and who knows how many others, have spent our hard earned money
on something that does not work as we were told it would. My Flyer system cost
more than my car. That's not petty to me. Wayne in particular has contributed
more to this forum than anyone I can think of, I must admit, he shocked me
once, but I can't count the times he's educated me. You, being a beta tester,
could also contribute to the education of us all as Wayne and Jerry do, but
your only contribution is to attempt to drive away people who are willing to
share their knowledge. Either share your yours, or shut up.
Regards,
Norman Austin 70743,1535