CompuServe Thread

#Brand New

20 messages in this thread
#5349From: David Lance SmithMay 15, 1995 6:19 PM
#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=(none), resolved parent_id points to #(none)
I am a college student that has just been turned on to the world of film (video) making. I am a Theatre major and I have begun to direct and act in my own short features. Since I am just beginning to do this I would like some help setting up my system to edit video. It just seem a waste of computing power to use two VCR's. Basically I would like to know what basic hardware pieces to get to edit my work. I plan on entering my work into film festivals, so I am interested on professional capability. I an not interested in you giving advice on namebrand information, just what is needed to do the job. I have a 486DX2-66 system with 16 meg of RAM, 256k cache, 300 meg Hardrive (I know, small), 3 x 32-bit EISA Bus slots, 5 x 16 bit ISA Bus slots, 2 x 32-bit VESA Bus slots, ThunderPro 1024 x 768 graphics card w/ 1meg. Believe it or not, I have yet to put multimedia capablities on my system yet, so I want to make sure I get the right equipment the first time. Thank you so much for your time and I lok forward to becoming friends. Sincerely David "Lance" Smith
#5362From: Timothy LiebeMay 16, 1995 1:41 PM
#5349-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5349, resolved parent_id points to #5349
Lance: >Since I am just beginning to do this I would like some help setting up my system to edit video. It just seem a waste of computing power to use two VCR's. Basically I would like to know what basic hardware pieces to get to edit my work. I plan on entering my work into film festivals, so I am interested on professional capability. I an not interested in you giving advice on namebrand information, just what is needed to do the job. I have a 486DX2-66 system with 16 meg of RAM, 256k cache, 300 meg Hardrive (I know, small), 3 x 32-bit EISA Bus slots, 5 x 16 bit ISA Bus slots, 2 x 32-bit VESA Bus slots, ThunderPro 1024 x 768 graphics card w/ 1meg.< W/a hard drive that size, non-linear editing (NLE) wouldn't be a wise option since digitized video is SUCH a memory hog! (In case you're not sure, NLE takes your video footage, digitizes it to your computer, and lets you edit your digitized footage and then output it back to videotape.) I'd suggest a "hybrid" system like the Fast Video Machine Lite (which I'm currently using) or the new Toaster for Windows. What it will do is A/B roll linear edit your footage (so you can do dissolves, wipes, etc.), and allow you to place computer graphics onto your videotape for titles, etc. Or, if you'd rather not use your computer, Videonics and Panasonic make a digital video mixers so you can do dissolves and other special effects, Videonics makes a nice, reasonably priced titler, and Videonics is also coming out this summer (they say) w/an A/B roll edit controller (Future Video also has a couple, both for use with and without your computer). Outside of your hard drive size, your computer seems perfectly DTV-worthy, IMHO. A Pentium would be better, admittedly, but what you've got sounds perfectly usable. Hope this helps, Tim Liebe
#5403From: David Lance SmithMay 18, 1995 7:37 AM
#5362-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5362, resolved parent_id points to #5362
Thanks for the advice, one of the things I plan to do when I buy components is to increase my hard drive to over a gig. They seem preety affordable now and the more I save the cheaper they get. I just hope that I don't jump in over my head when it comes to editing my own work. Actors are their own worst critics!! Once again thanks, and I hope to exchange knowledge again soon. Sincerely, Lance
#5419From: Timothy LiebeMay 19, 1995 12:31 PM
#5403-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5403, resolved parent_id points to #5403
Lance: >Thanks for the advice, one of the things I plan to do when I buy components is to increase my hard drive to over a gig. They seem preety affordable now and the more I save the cheaper they get. < Okay–but keep in mind even w/Enhanced IDE, the hard drive can't access its data as fast as it could w/a SCSI interface. You may experience some pauses, dropped frames, etc. if you're woking in a high-resolution mode… Best, Tim
#5452From: John SmallMay 21, 1995 10:15 AM
#5419-Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5419, resolved parent_id points to #5419
> even w/Enhanced IDE, the hard drive can't access its data as fast as it > could w/a SCSI interface No kidding? I was under the impression they were nearly equivalent in speed. Have you seen figures on this? Thanks. -jts
#5451From: John SmallMay 21, 1995 10:15 AM
#5403-Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5403, resolved parent_id points to #5403
Watch out for the large hd … I assume you're talking about IDE. To address over 512mb you need a motherboard with Logical Block Addressing (LBA) or else you'll have to run a real mode driver from config.sys. This is an issue because Win95 can run ALL drivers in protected mode IF one is available … only on an LBA mobo however. -jts
#5370From: Steve Bennett/SYSOPMay 16, 1995 5:01 PM
#5349-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5349, resolved parent_id points to #5349
David, For professional looking results, in a non-linear editing environment, you will need a video capture/playback card that works at resolutions greater than 640×480 and that can capture 60 fields per second with 24bit color resolution. The DPS PAR card is a good choice in this range of capture cards. -John
#5402From: David Lance SmithMay 18, 1995 7:37 AM
#5370-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5370, resolved parent_id points to #5370
Thanks for the reply, you guys are on the ball in here! The only follow up question I have for you is where can I find information on the termanology. Or mabey a good source of information for the beginner. I only came into the forum 2 days ago and haven't dug through the library yet. Can you suggest a particualy area so as to save time in loooking? All of your help is greatly appreciated! Sincerely, Lance
#5405From: Steve Bennett/SYSOPMay 18, 1995 2:52 PM
#5402-Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5402, resolved parent_id points to #5402
Try Library 3, news and reviews, here, and check your dealers for New Media and Digital Video magazines. -John
#5412From: John SmallMay 19, 1995 2:07 AM
#5349-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5349, resolved parent_id points to #5349
When I started looking around in the same way a few months ago here's what I came up with … For home quality editing the new low cost capture cards from Miro ($600 for DC1 with new DC20 PCI card due out June or so along with a rash of competition in PCI 'broadcast' quality capture cards) and ///FAST ($1000 Movie Machine Pro … but some have noted significant software problems) are ok for NLE. Somewhere between VHS and SVHS quality if fed hi band signal. Watch out for that PCMag 4/11 review since it mixed cdrom/multimedia mostly video capture cards with the Miro DC1tv. Only the latter is truly made for video ouput. Software for NLE is Adobe Premiere and it's usually bundled. For pro work all say it's still tape based editing unless you're willing to spend $20,000 or so. For this level of video capture Truevision Targa 2000 is considered entry level. I can't help you on this level but others in BPFORUM, DTVFORUM and CEVIDEO can. Selected vendors have forums as well … .///FAST, Miro, Truevision, Adobe for examples. Computer can be either Mac or PC/Windows with lots of heat on which is 'best'. My take is that Windows has the decided advantage but I wouldn't want to argue this point. Mac is fine. It all started with Video Toaster for Amiga. Now Commodore is out of business tho a German company has purchased them recently and pledges to bring them back in the marketplace. Basically you can't have enough CPU, memory or hard drive. For PC most say 486DX2/66, 16mb ram and 2-4 gigabytes of fast HD (E-IDE or FAST SCSI-II) ok for starters. Bottle neck for NLE is hard drive sustained transfer rate. For tape based editing nearly everyone is positive about ///FAST Video Machine. A/B roll. Everything you need except the decks. Lite version for $2500 MSRP. FutureVideo V-Station 3300 ($1000) comes up often too. EzV2 often mentioned as bargain VISCA software controller at $250. A safe low cost entry to get your feet wet would be Gold Disk's VideoDirector edit control software. Windows based and has multiple protocols including VISCA for $100 … of course at this price it's straight one source assembly of cuts only. Stand alone edit gear (ie., non-computer based) … All I know is that Videonics is the only serious prosumer stuff and I've seen a lot of messages from satisfied owners. I've been advised that 'illegal video' makes this a less than satisfactory brand if you're after true broadcast quality. Panasonic, Sony and JVC often mentioned at pro level. This is way out of my league anyway. <g> March '95 issue of Videomaker has a nice overview with product lists in each category (storyboard, capture, overlay, NLE, hybrid, tape editors). The last couple issues of Videography have focused on first Mac and then Windows based editing. I haven't seen a good book, at least on the prosumer level. A multimedia cdrom called 'How To Shoot Video Like A Pro' for $30 is supposed to be a good intro. As you already know camcorders are Sony TR-700 for top consumer palmcorder and reads and writes RCTC for $1250. Prosumer level is Sony VX-3 and Canon L2 at about $2,500 (and up for Canon with interchangeable lens). Panasonic AG-455 is popular in SVHS format. Everyone craves the Sony Hi8 EVW-300 at $5k. VX-3 and EVW-300 are 3 CCD camcorders. Decks are Sony EV-S7000, CVD-1000 and EVO-9720 for Hi8. The latter has two transports and works nicely for simple editing self contained or A/B roll. About $3500. The former are about $1400 with second being VISCA. SVHS is Panasonic AG-1970 for starters. When single frame accuracy needed Sanyo GVR-S950/955 is usually mentioned. There is a lot of gear out there. What I'mm learning with is the TR-700, two CVD-1000 and a Magni genlock card. Software is VideoDirector and EzV2 for edit control with Curtain Call and PrimeTime CG. For me this is a home editing hobby but even so I saw that I needed a separate record deck rather than use the 700 and also a TBC to steady the video stream. I'm planning to add NLE when the PCI video capture card offerings firm up, 4 GB E-IDE drives come out and down in price and Pentium P90 or P100's prices fall a bit. Probably Q3 this year. B&H Photo NYC handles it all. 800-947-9925. Oh, having lots of money can be useful. <g> But today's gear is considered a bargain for what it does compared to what it once required for the same tasks. Hope this helps. -jts
#5420From: Timothy LiebeMay 19, 1995 12:33 PM
#5412-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5412, resolved parent_id points to #5412
John: >For tape based editing nearly everyone is positive about ///FAST Video Machine. A/B roll. Everything you need except the decks. Lite version for $2500 MSRP. < One thing should be mentioned about the Video Machine Lite, though–it's not exactly "plug 'n' play" (as I'm finding out, having to write about it on a tight deadline…<g>). Once you get over the learning curve, though, it does a LOT for not a lot of money… Best, Tim
#5425From: John SmallMay 19, 1995 2:35 PM
#5420-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5420, resolved parent_id points to #5420
Experienced users keep telling me this. Since it must therefore be true I suspect I'll graduate to FAST VM at some point. -jts
#5436From: Timothy LiebeMay 20, 1995 7:23 PM
#5425-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5425, resolved parent_id points to #5425
John: >Experienced users keep telling me this. Since it must therefore be true I suspect I'll graduate to FAST VM at some point.< One word of caution about the VM, though–it ain't exactly user-friendly (as I'm finding out, having spent the whole week playing w/it!)… Best, Tim
#5438From: John SmallMay 20, 1995 8:02 PM
#5436-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5436, resolved parent_id points to #5436
> it ain't exactly user-friendly Anything PC is going to have it's lumps. Unless of course it's written to Win95's 32bit API! <g> Now that you've got your hands on the VM Lite, here's a question for you. Given a FutureVideo 3300 for A/B roll that can program the MX-1 via the GPI (about to come out), what are the advantages and disadvantages of the two options below: Option 1: FutureVideo 3300 + Videonics MX-1 Option 2: ///FAST Video Machine Lite As you know, the MX-1 offers a lot of bang with TBC, switcher and transitions. The price will be comparable more or less once you add CG to option 1 (and I have a genlock card and CG). Thanks. -jts
#5455From: A J. SOLOMONMay 21, 1995 8:27 PM
#5438-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5438, resolved parent_id points to #5438
Hi John PMJI: Well I've almost got this thing (VMLite) figured out. It works and it works well. I havn't used any of the Future edit products, but they seem to have a good rep. As far as the MX-1 goes it has lots of bang…Although I would want to get my hands on the combo set-up first to see if it is totally compatible. The really nice thing with the fast/// is the ability to work on a timelime. You see your edits with picons and re-edits are a cinch, just click and drag, change clip lengths, graphics, etc. Even I can do it. It does take a bit of a learning curve, but the folks on the fast forum are great, there is seldom a question that goes unanswered by the members and/or fast///. BTW the forum has moved to GO Fast. If you can find a Lite installed somewhere, you gotta try it. It is not as buggy as the Aver I had previously and I do get replies from fast! Anyway, the benifits outweigh the effort and I get great results, not to mention great video. btw.. Did you ever get a capture card? see ya Arnie
#5457From: John SmallMay 22, 1995 5:52 AM
#5455-Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5455, resolved parent_id points to #5455
> Did you ever get a capture card? Yea. I kept the Magni OEM genlock card that GVP bundled with VideoDirector 1.0 (modified to accept Curtain Call and genlock scripts) and Curtain Call plus PrimeTime, which is a DOS CG. Nice CG. In video overlay mode the card outputs RGB at NTSC rates which new monitors can't handle. So I picked up a used Sony 1402. It syncs at NTSC rates. Works well. Turns out there's a bug in VD so that it won't adjust post-roll. VD thinks they know where the bug is and how to correct it. But BOTTOM LINE, I've been out $500 plus $140 for the monitor and I don't have a functioning cuts only linear editing system as of now. What are we, about two months? Oh, the genlock is based on the ET4000 chip and it outputs at only 60Hz vertical refresh (I called Magni and they're looking into the driver … I haven't heard anything from them in over a month so this reminds me it's time to call again). Since it replaces the video card this means when I'm using the PC for other programs I have to tolerate horrible screen flicker. An issue long solved in all video cards. Not so swift I think. Electronic Mailbox gave me a month to decided, I decided at the end of the month that the wrinkles could be worked out …. but now at two months I don't think so. I'm not very happy with this setup. I'm still in the process of putting together my first video but with the post-roll screwed up I often end up with unintended transitions from one clip to another. You know, I call Electronic Mailbox saying I'm new to this and so what should I start out with given 'this' is what I'd like to do? They recommend the GVP Personal Suite Plus package at $499 and here I am two months later with a negative experience. I think we know the reason this package was sold at a reduced price and why GVP went out of business. My understanding is that Magni's cards are good, but … -jts
#5437From: Timothy LiebeMay 20, 1995 7:27 PM
#5425-#Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5425, resolved parent_id points to #5425
John: >Experienced users keep telling me this. Since it must therefore be true I suspect I'll graduate to FAST VM at some point.< Seems I repeated my last comment on this subject in responding to this originally <g>. All I can say is, even after having been on the phone to FAST tech support several times (BTW, they don't have an 800 # and it's during normal business hours only that you can reach them), it seems I'm still having problems getting things running. I'm sure that, once I get all the kinks worked out, it'll be a great machine, but my deadline's Monday and I'm getting new and improved kinks!@! Best, Tim
#5441From: Steve Bennett/SYSOPMay 20, 1995 8:18 PM
#5437-Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5437, resolved parent_id points to #5437
Tim, You might also post some of the problems that you are having with the VM Lite here. I am pretty familiar with it and there are lots of others here too. -John
#5445From: John SmallMay 20, 1995 10:29 PM
#5437-Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5437, resolved parent_id points to #5437
It's good you've got a deadline. That'll put you're review in the real world of what's practical and what's just for playing with as a hobby. -jts
#5454From: A J. SOLOMONMay 21, 1995 7:51 PM
#5437-Brand New — declared parent_msg_num=5437, resolved parent_id points to #5437
Hi Tim PMJI, I've been working through the learning curve on the VM Lite for about a month now and it is a pretty incredible board. If you need support try posting to the new fast/// forum. It is accessible by either "Go Fast", or in CISNav as "Cis:Fast". All the fast people are there and technotes have been uploaded into the library. I know the feeling as deadlines approach, yesterday I made it to the station with 3 minutes till airtime.That was after spending 4 hours trying to get the VM to do audio inserts on my 1970, It was pretty obvious when I figured it out finally, but 4 hours of error messages can drive you to the brink of insanity. If I can be of any help, let me know. Arnie…