CompuServe Thread

#Shadow effects

15 messages in this thread
#11740From: David TaylorMay 9, 1995 8:47 AM
Could someone please help me with an issue on shadows. When rendering scenes with shadow maps cast by spotlights, even with the High size and High sharpness switched on, the shadows have a palette-knife appearance and cast soft shadows if the light source is far from the shadow. The same scene when ray-traced has sharp shadows but with much more detail. What I want is lots of detail in the shadows (ie where they overlap), but not for them to be unrealistically sharp when the source is distant. How do I get soft, nicely gradated, shadows, similar to the tricycle's shadow on the Caligari spash screen? thanks to anyone who can help. David
#11754From: Rob BryertonMay 9, 1995 2:42 PM
>>How do I get soft, nicely gradated, shadows, similar to the tricycle's shadow on the Caligari spash screen?<< Use a spotlight, and scale the inside of the spotlight cone by selecting the spotlight, click & drag the mouse while keeping the mouse button down… you will see a green circle inside the spotlight cone change size…. Hope this helps Rob
#11853From: Terry Cotant[RSS]May 10, 1995 10:54 PM
Also, do you have the "Ray" button selected for ray traced shadows?
#11878From: David TaylorMay 11, 1995 10:29 AM
I have my spotlights with their blue inner cone smaller than the outer white one, and the light falls off as expected around the centre of the lit area. And yes, I do have Ray switched on (and Ray switched on in the Render dialog. Which is a wee bit confusing I find. Not sure what happens if one is on but not the other… Anyway.) Result is still that shadows are pin sharp at the edges. I guess that this is how its meant to be, but I'd really like to get shadows like on the splash screen – detailed but soft at the edges. any other ideas? thanks for help David
#11884From: CaligariMay 11, 1995 11:36 AM
David, try setting the shadowmap size to high, and shadow sharpness to low, that should give you a nice smooth shadow with soft edges. If that doesn't work, try the same with ray turned on, but be ready to wait a while. Let me know how it turns out! I-Wei, Tech support,Caligari.
#11961From: David TaylorMay 12, 1995 3:59 PM
I-Wei I see how its done the first way you suggest, but it seems tricky, and depends critically on the distance of the spotlight from the shadow. Too close and he shadow is sharp, too long and it gets lumpy and peculiar. I cant get a soft shadow with Ray method anyhow. As soon as I set the lamp to Ray I get a sharp shadow no matter what else I do. Thanks anyway for your help..
#11988From: Ken SmithMay 13, 1995 5:14 AM
PMFJI David, But have you tried using mulitple lights? One to make a sharp shadow one to make a slightly larger soft shadow, and if the whole thing is too dark a low level light to lighten the shadow area? Of course the rendering time goes up with each light with raytracing………. Ken
#12060From: David TaylorMay 15, 1995 8:16 AM
Ken, Yes I agree, it reduces the contrast of the dark shadows, but the edges of the shadows are still pin-sharp. Now in the grey climate of the UK (unlike the happy folk in Caligari I suspect) the sun shines only intermittently, and the real world of shardows is one of diffuse effects. So as soon as I generate a rendered illustration of an interior lit with sharp shadows, the viewer immediately gets a (quite unnecessary) impression of bright sunlight. I'm trying to simulate room sets, that we have to build and photograph, planning the shots before commiting to big $$$ spends. No photographer works with sharp shadows unless they are making a very specific statement. So its just a bit disappointing that in TS I can make a really good simulation of a scene, yet they are all on a bright Californian afternoon, not a grey English morning!! David
#12100From: Ian FirthMay 15, 1995 11:12 PM
David, Here's a thought (from a fellow Limey<g> who's seen the drab days of merry old England…), create a fuzzy, semi-transparent TXR texture map (possibly a gradient fill, and use "Intensity" to create it). Place a circle or hex over the large end of the light, a short distance from it. Texture it with the created texture, raytrace the scene and you have an instant gel light. This should give the effect you are seeking. Regards, Ian
#12102From: Ken SmithMay 16, 1995 1:26 AM
I remember meeting some photographers from California while working in the UK, they were always complaining about the light, they felt as thought they were almost blind. Some how their ASA 24 film did not produce the same results……… Ken
#12449From: Scott KildallMay 21, 1995 10:29 PM
Hi David, pmji, but lighting of internal spaces is a very tricky problem in 3D graphics. We make the assumption "that over there is a light, and this over here is a wall, and lights emit light and walls do not" but — if you take a glance at the room around you — you'll see that the walls definitely reflect light to the ceiling, the floors reflect on the wall, and every object casts diffuse light on every other object in the scene. Those would be some horrendous calculations to make. One trick that may be helpful, if you really need soft interior shadows, is to paint them directly onto the texture maps used to color surfaces. This was used on Iron Helix, among other titles… Drew Huffman and Rich Cohen could have used Electric Image to run the shadowmaps directly, they instead used painted shadows atop texturemaps to catch the shading in the corners of rooms, the density changes in shadows beneath a table. Makes animation difficult, but helps with diffuse interreflection in interior stills. Regards, John Dowdell Macromedia Tech Support
#12453From: Terry Cotant[RSS]May 21, 1995 11:15 PM
>> Makes animation difficult, but helps with diffuse interreflection in interior stills. Yeah, neat trick — I'll have to remember it for some things, but difficult isn't the word for most animations! <g> Radiosity would be better suited for that kind of thing.. :-{
#12459From: Ken SmithMay 22, 1995 1:45 AM
>>Radiosity would be better suited for that kind of thing..<< PMFJI Terry, but I have been reading a lot about radiosity recently, are we getting it in tS2? Ken
#12470From: Terry Cotant[RSS]May 22, 1995 10:03 AM
Sorry.. No radiosity in trueSpace2. I don't think "the door is closed" there, though.
#11899From: Terry Cotant[RSS]May 11, 1995 1:25 PM
When you have Ray turned on for a light, you have to ray trace (settings box) to get the shadows properly..