#4000 crash prone?
25 messages in this thread
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed their 4000 is more crash prone
than any other Amiga they have owned? I realize that the 040 chip and the
copyback cache can cause some problems at times, but even if the copyback
is disabled, the 4000 is tempermental with a lot of software. Most of the
problem is a Guru with a CPU trap of 80000004 (Illegal Instruction), and
the second most frequent Guru is 80000003 (Address Error). If I run
Enforcer to try and see what might be causing the problems, sometimes I
can get enough of the printout before it resets the computer to show that
the input.device is usually the one causing the crash. Maybe this is just
a coiencidence and something else is causing the problem. But it sure
takes a lot of the fun out of the 4000 and at times it makes you want a
030 chip instead. I remember Eric Flom was complaining that his GVP 040
accelerator was having a lot of the same errors, so is it something in the
system software causing problems, or is the 040 unfriendly to all the
Amiga software?
. //
What software are you running when you see this problem? Typically
input.device giving the errors is the result of someone else stomping on
it.
Well I haven't been able to really pinpoint a particular type of software
causing the problems. It's just that the chances of any particular program
crashing the 4000 seems to have increased considerably. Anything I do find
that is causing problems, then I check it with the cache's off to see if
it is still crashes. And if so, I get rid of it. ASDG had a problem with
their ES-300C scanner module in that some customers were reporting that
the module would not work unless the Copyback mode was turned off, like
mine. However others with similar systems had no problems at all. They
were never able to reproduce the problem on their 4000, however they and
CBM were able to come up with a fix. So with the crashes I've had, and
what others have reported, I still have a feeling that the 040 is a little
flakey 8^)
. //
If the 040 is indeed more prone to this behavior and if producing code that
won't crash or excite Enforcer on an 040 will guarantee no crashes or
enforcer hits with other CPUs, then this may be a good thing in the long
run.
"If the 040 is indeed more prone to this behavior and if producing code
that won't crash or excite Enforcer on an 040 will guarantee no crashes
or enforcer hits with other CPUs, then this may be a good thing in the
long run."
Well that's true in a way, but sometimes I don't care to be the beta
tester, especially if I have something going in the backround that I
haven't saved yet 8^)
. //
John,
I had to get rid of a few program when I first got my A4K, but since then
I never have to turn off Copyback for anything except games. My A4000 is
much more stable than my old A2000/030 combo was.
Known problem-causers with the A4000:
ARP commands (there's a patch available called Arp040Fix)
Stuff packed with old versions of PowerPacker (repack with
4.0a or Turbo Imploder)
Poorly written games.
It must be something you're running though–except when experimenting with
stuff like games and Eurodemos, I probably don't see crashes more than
once every couple of weeks.
Hmmm…..I'll have to look around for that "Arp040Fix". A lot of the
programs I still have on the hard drive still use the arp.library. Yep,
I've found a few of the PowerPacker crasher's 8^) European games and
demo's I don't worry about too much because I expect them to crash 8^)
Thanks for the tips Denny, maybe it is just some certain types of programs
that are causing problems it's just that I always seem to find the program
most likely to crash the machine. Murphy's law at work.
. //
Denny,
Would the arp problem be reflected in programs that depend on the arp
library even if no arp commands are in one's command path (or loaded on
the machine, for that matter)? I have lots of programs that come with and
depend on the arp library. But I've necer used the arp system or
commands. Would I have trouble on an '040 or A4000?
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
Yep, the ARP problem does affect some programs that use ARP library. It
depends on which parts they use. For instance, the BlitzDisk disk cache
crashes without Arp040Fix. But NameBase, the address program I wrote,
works fine even though it uses the ARP file requester.
John,
Make sure your power supply fan is blowing air out the back. The first
time I turned on my A4000 I though, "Hmmm, this machine is _very_ quiet."
Some time later I put my hand on the case and the thing was hot! I would
have returned the machine but the fan hasn't failed since that first day
(Jan 02).
-Chris
John,
I have never had a crash on the 4000 that I couldn't repeat on the
2500/030, or else explain as a programming error of our own. Never. For
whatever that is worth.
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
Well I'll try to narrow it down some and see if a certain type of program
is causing the crashes. If I can find some kind of repeatability, then
maybe I can get rid of the problem or correct it.
. //
CBM is trying to better relations with you so they gave you the custom
no-crash A4000 ;^}
wmc – via Autopilot!
We bought our 4000's from dealers – not from CBM. We got them faster that
way. CBM treats us terribly, probably about like they treat NewTek. I'd
guess that's because we don't lick their boots. :^)
–Ben
…via AutoPilot
I have not noticed many crashes with my 4000. It 100% stock so far except
for a 2091 SCSI controller which is only occasionally attached to a tape
drive for backup. What programs are crashing? I find that Scribble! will
not run but it doesn't crash. What? Now stop that laughing!
BTW I installed your Macpaint PI loader today. Thanks for writing it.
Goin' AP6
…..Mark Sterling6
Well like I said Mark, it could be just me and the type of programs that I
have tried to run. As I find the errant ones, then I purge them to keep
them from coming back and haunting me, so I might get things settled down
eventually. Scribble….boy you must be a glutton for punishment 8^) And
your welcome on the MacPaint loader. I haven't had any feedback on it so
if you find any bugs or have any problems, let me know. I'm in the process
of writing another PI module for GEM/IMG files. It let's me brush up on my
C programming and provides us with some of the other loaders that Ben
hasn't had time or desire to write. If you have any want's for a
particular loader, let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.
. //
. \X/ John – K7KB (TechnoJunkie at heart)
There is always a time of purging outdated software when a new os version
or machine comes into your hands. I guess I can do without Scribble!. Po
I only have a few macpaint pics but they load just fine. An IMG loader
would be nice. Of course you could do a pict loader if you have a spare
year.(ducking)
Goin' AP6
…..Mark Sterling6
Do a PICT loader — yeah right <g>. Actually someone else is working on
that so I'll leave that up to him. He is a lot more knowledgable about
different picture formats than I. Thanks for the comments on the MacPaint
loader.
//
\X/ John – K7KB (TechnoJunkie at heart)
Mark:
Did you patch Scribble! to run under 2.0?
Clint <VRLI>
Clint, There is a patch? Haha, I thought it was a goner but wait , you did
say were using it (no, no that must have been years ago). Where can I find
that patch (he said sheepishly).
Goin' AP6
…..Mark Sterling6
Mark:
I saw it in Amazing Computing, shortly after AmigaDOS 2.0 came out. I
will try to do a diff between the version I am currently using and the
original disk and see if I can come up with what it was. If I can figure
it out, I'll email you the results.
Clint <VRLI>
John,
Were are the current failure ("Guru") codes listed?
wmc – via Autopilot!
Alerts.h….wherever you keep your include files.
Wayne, there is not usually a listing of the "Software Failure" codes in
most Amiga user's manuals. If you are into programming, you can find all
the codes in the Include:exec/alerts.h file. I purchased the "Amiga
Programmers Quick Reference" from Vidia and it has all the codes on the
front cover, plus a bunch of extra goodies a programmer needs to reference
from time to time.
. //
. \X/ John – K7KB (TechnoJunkie at heart)