#Opinions on Lightwave
34 messages in this thread
Once again, yet another quick question. Just curious as to the group's opinion
of said program, and why you prefer (or don't) 3DS. I know my reasons (prefer
the interface(which I'm sure would shock so out there), the speed, the
flexability, and its overall logic (vague, I know, but I'm trying to be
quick)), and have been curious about other's opinions. Thanks in advance.
John Stetzer
JWS
PS: Not trying to start a flame thing, just want to know other's opinions.
>>I know my reasons…
Should read …for prefering 3DS…
John Stetzer
JWS
Perhaps I should explain why I posted this. When I was at school, I got a
chance to look at a lot of different packages, including Topas, Lightwave,
Imagine, Caligari, Playmation, Sculpt, Stratavision, Infini-D, Swivel, and
Wavefront. I chose to go with 3DS, and have been more productive and done
better work w/3DS than with the other packages. In fact, it was my first 3DS
animation that got me my current job.
Some of my 'aquaintences' who use Lightwave, however, have dismissed 3DS as
something not suited to 'professional' (by this, I guess they mean broadcast)
work. When we 'discuss' this, things usually end with a statement like "if 3DS
is so good, why aren't they using it in seaquest or Babylon 5?"
I'm not the type to make some of the broad statements that catagorically
denegrate a package that I don't use; as stated above, I've tried both and am
much more productive with 3DS than Lightwave. I guess I was just curious if I
was the only person out the who tried Lightwave and found it not suited for
themselves :-).
John Stetzer
JWS
PS: Sorry if this sounds like I'm venting; it's not intended as such. It's just
a question thats been kicking around in my head since an internship a couple of
years ago.
/* work. When we 'discuss' this, things usually end with a statement like "if
3DS is so good, why aren't they using it in seaquest or Babylon 5?" */
If they had purchased 3DS instead of lightwave, they could have produced just
as impressive images, and sunk all that extra money Lightwave cost them into
better scripts. <couldn't resist> -dave
What makes you think that they "purchased" LightWave? Or that if Autodesk's
promotional people had their foot in the door, that they'd make them pay full
retail, either? These television producers (or their sub-contractors) are
always looking to increase profit by lowering costs, and they'll do it in any
way possible. NewTek gets a separate credit at the end of seaQuest. If
Spielburg (or Foundation Imaging for Babylon V, or the people who did the X
Files, or the contractors on a zillion other shows) can get something for a
minimal price in exchange for a tour of the set, a few jackets and baseball
caps, and maybe a credit at the end of the show, they've made money by saving
money.
I do not know how to make better scripts for seaQuest, but if I see one more
genius teenage hacker telepathically determine the security codes to startup or
shut down another computer, I'm gonna scream. 🙂
/* retail, either? These television producers (or their sub-contractors) are
always looking to increase profit by lowering costs, and they'll do it in any
way possible. */
I think it's sad that so many have bought into the effects more than the
stories they tell… it really shows sometimes. Deep S$%# 9 had very lame
scripts at first, but great effects. You can't keep a show going with effects
only. Babble-on has had horrible scripts, very poor acting from some of its key
"characters"… and yet I've seen sci-fi's with little to know special effects
at all that I will never forget and have left a lasting impression on me.
/* caps, and maybe a credit at the end of the show, they've made money by
saving money. */
Well, the wifer and I gave Seaquisp and Babble-On a VERY fair shake for weeks,
and consistently week after week, drugding our way through the commercials for
the full hour, we found ourselves shaking our heads. TNG had its slow seasons,
many episodes in the first few few were dreadful. I like the effects, but it's
hard to watch a show when effects take less than 5% of the total time and you
have to wade through 95% "filler acting".
/* I do not know how to make better scripts for seaQuest, but if I see one more
genius teenage hacker telepathically determine the security codes to startup or
shut down another computer, I'm gonna scream. 🙂 */
Kinda like Wesley Crusher all over again, but in inner space this time. It
didn't work then, it doesn't work now… not even for kids. Even THEY roll
their eyes. :Q -dave
>==========
>asoft/S12_Take_5_Want_Ads #106534, from dave_aguilar, 1653 chars, 08-Jun-94
13:26:42
>Comment to 106468.
>———-
>Subject: Opinions on Lightwave
>Fm: dave aguilar 76260,453
>To: John Foust/Syndesis Corp 76004,1763 (X)
>
>/* retail, either? These television producers (or their
>sub-contractors) are always looking to increase profit by lowering
>costs, and they'll do it in any way possible. */
>
>I think it's sad that so many have bought into the effects more than
>the stories they tell… it really shows sometimes. Deep S$%# 9 had
>very lame scripts at first, but great effects. You can't keep a show
>going with effects only. Babble-on has had horrible scripts, very poor
>acting from some of its key "characters"… and yet I've seen sci-fi's
>with little to know special effects at all that I will never forget and
>have left a lasting impression on me.
>
>/* caps, and maybe a credit at the end of the show, they've made money
>by saving money. */
>
>Well, the wifer and I gave Seaquisp and Babble-On a VERY fair shake for
>weeks, and consistently week after week, drugding our way through the
>commercials for the full hour, we found ourselves shaking our heads.
>TNG had its slow seasons, many episodes in the first few few were
>dreadful. I like the effects, but it's hard to watch a show when
>effects take less than 5% of the total time and you have to wade
>through 95% "filler acting".
>
>/* I do not know how to make better scripts for seaQuest, but if I see
>one more genius teenage hacker telepathically determine the security
>codes to startup or shut down another computer, I'm gonna scream. 🙂
>*/
>
>Kinda like Wesley Crusher all over again, but in inner space this time.
>It didn't work then, it doesn't work now… not even for kids. Even
>THEY roll their eyes. :Q -dave
>
>
I agree.
Evan
Hey John, Lighten up on the script writers. I happen to enjoy the show. After
sitting here for 12 hours adding and subtracting sympte in my head I don't want
to relax in front of my home theater to watch brain brawl, Jepardy, boring
soaps like Deep Space9, or COPS. I like the escape of light minded stuff like
Seaquest, Star trek and CSPAN <BG> And, I don't care to analize the hidden
messages in the programs either. I'll leave that to those that have nothing
better to do than to ponder utopian idealism. For me, just simple
entertainment for my tired simple mind!
I don't expect network TV to be anything more than light entertainment. The
magic password-cracking and ESP plotlines are a personal peeve for an old
rationalist like me. I've done a lot of writing, but I've never tried script
writing – I don't think it's easy to do well.
Look on the bright side – at least I'm not name-dropping tone poem composers,
gravel-voiced blues singers, yam-stuffing performance artists and depressed
writers, like they're doing at that smoke-filled end of the Take 5 Room. 🙂
As for utopian idealism, do you get the Science Fiction Channel?
Hmmm…Reminds me a bit of Dylan Thomas……
Murph'
No on the SFC.
I didn't mean bundling a board with 3DS, I meant the other way around Buy the
board and get 3DS free. (so to speak) Actually the only time I've seen
bundling is when the software is not selling by its own merits which is not the
case with 3DS so really it's a stupid point I'm making. <BG>
>> …and sunk all that extra money Lightwave cost them
>> into better scripts. <couldn't resist> -dave
Them there is fittin and spittin words, seems to me.
I don't watch Seaquest but I LIKE B5 scripts a lot and the CG is at least as
good as Picket Fences, don't ya know.
/*
>> …and sunk all that extra money Lightwave cost them
>> into better scripts. <couldn't resist> -dave
Them there is fittin and spittin words, seems to me.
I don't watch Seaquest but I LIKE B5 scripts a lot and the CG is at least as
good as Picket Fences, don't ya know. */
Do they use MMedia images in Picket Fences? 🙂
Well, there's no final word on taste… I gave B5 a fair shake and… well…
:Q -dave
Rome, WI is several miles down the road, and the producers came to this town
(Jefferson, WI) to check out the sheriff's office for authenticity. And
there's a lawyer around with a name that sounds like Waumbagh. And some of the
real stories around here are about as weird as the show…
Rural America, indeed. I just bought a house, and the garage-door opener's
button is installed on the *outside* of the garage. I can see the owner
standing there, saying "Well, who's going to want to get in the garage anyway?
Nothing to steal."
>> the garage-door opener's button is installed on the *outside* of the
garage<<
Hey John this one didn't happen to have a wheel Chair Ramp leading up to the
Steps too…did it? <g>
Murph'
>> Do they use MMedia images in Picket Fences? 🙂
It was a leg pull, at least a try. There is a picket fence at the beginning,
I think, but don't know how made.
>> Well, there's no final word on taste…
>> I gave B5 a fair shake and… well… :Q -dave
I could not stand the promos of Seaquest, so never gave that any shake at
all. Other than possibly the CG, what is it about B5 that you don't like? It
won't change my mind but I am still curious. How about DS-9, same question.
What recent TV have you liked, if anything?
/* I could not stand the promos of Seaquest, so never gave that any
shake at all. Other than possibly the CG, what is it about B5 that
you don't like? It won't change my mind but I am still curious. How
about DS-9, same question. What recent TV have you liked, if
anything? */
For me to care enough to watch a show regulalry, there has to be a
decent story behind it. I see so little originality in the series…
I find myself saying "well they stole that from_____", and "well they
recycled that from ______", and "cute effect, I saw that in _______".
Also, for me personally, music has to carry its weight. The music of
B5 is very "filler". You know, I can go up to somebody and sing "da
da DA DA DA DA DA da DA da da….. da da DA DA DA DA DA da DA DAA
DAAAA!" and they'll recognize the infamouse arena music from the old
Star Trek series… the music is a memorable as the episode. I look
back on 7 years of Star Trek Next Generation and the only music I can
remember is the theme they recycled from the first movie. DS9 has a
nice opening them, but the rest of its music is incidental at best,
and you could tell that the splitting of energy and funds between TNG
and DS9 was causing DS9's writing to suffer. The episodes picked up
after TNG went off. SQ has been a complete let down. I was so psyched
about it when I heard Scheider was in it… but the stories have been
lame, and his acting skills have yet to be exploited.
Anyway, I don't hold it against anyone if they watch B5, but as big a
sci-fi fan as I am, I have not found it worth time the (or the
commercials) to care about this cast or the characters they portray.
It will probably go the way of Wonder Woman in the 70's… and SQ,
well, if I want a plot underwater, I suppose I can always got back to
old "Voyage of the Bottom of the Sea" episodes with
monster-suit-a-week… at least that was funny.
What do I like? There hasn't been that much on that I do… I find
myself watching less and less (I abhore commercials), and watching
more and more movies. The last sub I really cared about was Red
October. Now THERE was a sea story. 🙂 -dave
>> What do I like? There hasn't been that much on that
>> I do… I find myself watching less and less…
When I left this message, I thought that I could at least express
the reasons for my own preferences clearly, but now I am not so sure.
I like B5, DS-9, Picket Fences, NYPD Blue, and Brisco County is a
good spoof. Part of the reason is that, aside from those, there is
nothing else on. Even an unusual bit of quartz is a find in a
mountain of ordinary sand. And I am leaving the TV off, more than in
the past.
I tried watching Next Generation and thought I was watching the same
script as an original Star Trek, just different faces.
/* I tried watching Next Generation and thought I was watching the same script
as an original Star Trek, just different faces. */
I hate to reveal my trekkie colors here, but you WERE watching the same scripts
with different faces. Many of the stories either built off of (or completely
recycled) old Trek scripts. Again, we know where the money wasn't going. -dave
<< previous ramblin's regarding Deep Space 9 >>
For any one interested, the next time you see Odo in his office, check out the
4 monitors displaying the outside docking areas. You'll see some 3DS animations
playing created by Tom Hudson of the Yost Group.
/* For any one interested, the next time you see Odo in his office, check out
the 4 monitors displaying the outside docking areas. You'll see some 3DS
animations playing created by Tom Hudson of the Yost Group. */
Neato. So does this mean that there is an existing 3DS file of the station? 🙂
-dave
Being a long time SciFi fan too, ( I don't generally like discussing
SciFi, just enjoy it) I would like your opinion on something.
As a kid I was hooked on the series, Tom Swift. I couldn't wait
until the next book in the series was released. Since Hollywood has
this thing right now about reviving all the old shows we baby boomers
saw as kids and read in the comic books. How do you feel about
creating a series like the Tom Swift adventures on par with the
quality of Star Trek production.
I was also a fan of MAD magazine as a kid. A good comedy. satire
show could be done based on the adventures of Alfred E. Newman and
the What, Me Worry? theme.
How would one get these ideas to the producers? I don't want credit
for the ideas, I just would like to see the shows , series done on a
quality scale.
Tom Swift and His Amazing Replitron.
A classic.
– G
>> How would one get these ideas to the producers?
>> I don't want credit for the ideas, I just would like
>> to see the shows , series done on a quality scale.
Well, I can give you some idea of what WON'T work. I decided that I had some
good comments for The Disney Company and I wrote a polite letter, I thought.
Weeks later I got a reply from the legal department stating that they do not
and will not read suggestions from outside the company unless somehow requested
by the company.
It does not matter that you do not want credit or money, their lawyers assume
that you do, or will, want both.
Depending on how much effort you want to put into this, you have a number of
people on this forum who could "network" you to anyone who could develop your
basic ideas.
Just some thoughts.
>>As a kid I was hooked on the series, Tom Swift.
Well, my youth may be showing, but I read many of the Tom Swift, _Jr._ books —
along with The Three Investigators, The Mad Scientists' Club, the Danny Dunn
series, the Mrs. Pickerel (sp?) series, etc. Disney made a couple of for-tv
movies based on The mad Scientists (ie The Monster of Strawberry Lake).
The closest thing to this now is a "new" (?) British series on NICK called "The
Tomorrow People" (I think). It's about three teens (a Brit boy, an American
boy and a (Brit?) girl) who have kele-kinetic powers and are always foiling bad
guys.
I agree we need more shows based on kids with too much time, money, freedom and
knowledge on their hands! <G> (No, I MEAN it — I LOVE this kind of stuff —
I'm all for bringing back all the Gerry/Sylvia Anderderson shows like
Thunderbirds and Captain Scarlet — not as cheeze-ball, poorly-done cartoons,
but as combo live-action/supermarionation/cg shows).
Dave
PS (esp To Martin or any other Brits out there) Does anyone remember a BBC
show called something like "The Double-decker Kids"? Again, it was about a
bunch of kids always getting in trouble (ie meddling in "ADULT" affairs) whose
club-house was in a junked double-decker bus.
John,
I have friends who also use Lightwave and have heard similar arguments. I
dismiss them for a variety of reasons but the main one being that it is
definitely a more productive package. Lightwave is always going to be on the
edge unless some big company buys it in a merger. 3DS has the backing of
Autodesk, but more importantly the Yost team who is dedicated to making the
best 3D Animation package on the market. Now and in the future that dedication
is going to pay off big for 3DS users. Don't concern yourself with the
perceptions of people who use Lightwave, I think it does a good job but I
definitely like the look and feel of 3DS better. Enjoy it and the next time you
hear these silly arguments, just smile, for now and into the future you're on
the right track.
-JE
>> Enjoy it and the next time you hear these silly arguments, just smile, for
now and into the future you're on the right track. <<
PMJI. I am never content to do this — partly because I know 3DS is better,
and partly because I want to help the other person see why.
In fact, I would like to gather a list of programs with effects produced by
3DS. I will then commit the major items on the list to memory so I am "armed"
:-).
If anybody wishes to volunteer some (preferably) well-know programs that have
utilized 3DS, please post here or e-mail the name to me.
James,
I save my battles for the important ones. I know 3DS is good. I know its very
good. If someone is interested I'm more than happy to show them and explain its
virtues, but to argue with die hard Lightwave fans, is like trying to convince
me that 3DS isn't as good. It just ain't gonna happen. So as a result, my
Lightwave buddies and I have an understanding. They point out the features they
like, and I do likewise, without getting into a debate about which is better.
But we both know which we think is better. <g>
-JE
I've used the Toaster in a video environment for a major live switch concert
once and really liked its functionality for what we did at the budget we had to
work with. (9 hours with four genlocked cameras) I tried to learn the
lightwave accessory to the Toaster but found it quite awkward. It is obviously
quite a capable package in the right hands. A friend of mine here, locally who
now owns 3DS came from the lightwave animation world tells me not to waste my
time as anything in lightwave takes longer to model, to keyframe, and to render
than in 3DS. As far as Amblin Productions is concerned, I* believe they got
their toasters donated for the publicity. Same reason my daughter is Apple
literate. The school got their Apples free. In addition, the Toaster was
truly a pioneer in bringing very highend features to the small video producer.
It turned the video industry upsidedown. Only today is the Toaster beginning
to receive some competition from MACs and PC's. The Lightwave package, I
think, has its popularity rooted in the fact that it was bundled with the
toaster video switcher. If sold on it's own, I doub't it would be anymore
popular that Design Cad 3D. Did you ever ponder if 3DS were bundled with a
revolutionary product like the toaster or even the targa+ card. Things might
be radically different.
3DS is a great product without a bundled video card. If Autodesk bundled a
video card, the price would double, no? 🙂
Another way to look at it: Even in the Toaster market, best estimates say that
15 percent of the users ever bother to use LightWave. It just means there was
more attraction to cool transition effects than there was to 3D. Another
consideration is price… offhand, I'd say the average 3DS setuip cost several
thousand dollars more than the average Toaster setup, not counting equal video
equipment add-ons.
IMHO, 3DS, LightWave or Topas are pretty much functionally equal. What makes
one outshine the others is the amount of time you spend using it and exploring
with it…
My 3DS biased opinion is that, in the future, 3DS will be looked upon as the
Visicalc or Lotus 123, the so-called "Killer App.", of the desktop animation
world. This doesn't necessarily mean that it's "better" but it carries a
certain amount of respect and will be remembered. LightWave, unless it's
ported to other platforms, may fade into oblivion (or Seaquest reruns 😉 ) now
that it's native environment is in limbo.
Paul