#Platform Problems
19 messages in this thread
I produce interactive training and games for the computer. Multimedia/cross
platform is not a buzz word but a reality for me. I mix 3D/2D animation along
with video capture in an interactive platform to get a point across or just
have plain fun. Now to get to my point.
I saw 3DS and was impressed by its professional animation quality and open
ended architecture for external routines. I went out that day and bought a DOS
system (I run Mac's.) just to run 3DS and all the Ipas routines. I have done
all the 3DS tutorials gotten all the after market books and did them and now I
am waiting for the Digimation tape series to arrive at my doorstep. So, as you
can see I am serious about using this product.
But I am running into problems. I would like to outline some of them. In turn I
hope to get some serious response to my opinions from real world users in my
field.
Playback is a big gripe with me and its inability to cross platform as well.
For example, I use Electric Image on the Mac. If I need to view my animation in
"real-time" I place it into the projector module and off it goes in basic real
time. This is a software application and NOT hardware.This means that I can put
my image out direct to beta without the time consuming and expensive frame by
frame method or purchase a high end transfer card. This way I do not have to
pass on the cost to the client and I can be very competitive in the market
place. But this is not so with 3DS. (I am aware of 7th quest and other 3DS
rendered game scenes. But start-stop animation is not what I need)
Now onto applying materials to an object. There is a saying "go around your
butt to get to your elbow" and 3DS does this. It can take 4 to 5 steps to apply
and register texture to an object. Where even in lower priced products you can
apply texture while viewing the object in a "rendered mode" and adjust it on
the fly.
The inability to view your materials at all times does not make sense. Again,
in most 3D software you have floating palettes showing you your tools and
materials available.
Cross platform is a big problem. Sure I can save in targa format and output to
Mac. But this means another time consuming step. Now I have to go through
DeBabblizer and render them into pics or quicktime. And even then I run into a
possible problem of a parsi burn or an "noise explosion" on one some frames.
Time is money and with clients that want the product now, 3DS does not cut it.
I REALLY want to use this product and like it very much. But I need to have a
product that is flexible and friendly to a multimedia platform. I need a
product that can play in a program such as Icon Author, MM Authorware or even
Director. But not in a Slow FLI or FLC format. I can not expect
my end user to have a 486, Pentium or a PPC just to get a "real time" feel.
Which means that I will not be able to use this product much unless I want to
spend time on it to make it work. 3DS has its strengths and this is why I am
not giving up on it. I am hoping Ver. 4 will incorporate improvements in the
areas that I have discussed. With the advent of lower priced 3D animation
packages that have ease of use and the ability to cross platform and play back
in "real time" viewing, I hope 3DS has taken notice.
One sure way to "go around your butt to get to your elbow", is to develop a
sophisticated, system-taxing application on a non-native platform. If you do
not wish to do any cross-format file transformations, then you have made your
first mistake by forcing yourself to do so. So this complaint makes no sense to
me.
You mention that the .FLx format is slow. What's fast, QickTime? Please, let's
be serious here! 3DS animation can be produced and converted to many, many
formats. But, the reality is that most professional applications are using
proprietary compression routines to produce top-quality multimedia titles to
ensure decent performance from a large cross-section of installed systems.
I don't blame you for wanting to use 3DS for your creations. It may not have
*everything*, but it's got *more* than any other single 3D package in the
desktop arena. Sure, you have to do a couple of steps to map an object, but you
get LOTS of options as well.
With power, you get complexity. Period.
What exactly do you mean by "playback" and "basic real time". What does "put my
image out direct to beta without…..transfer card" mean?? Are you doing video?
Or playback on the system? Are you going be using pre-rendered scenes? Or the
real-time rendering found in games like "Doom"? If "start-stop" animation is
not what you need, what DO you need? What exactly is the "projector module"
doing when it "goes off in real time"?
What does "flexible and friendly to a mutimedia platform" mean, exactly?
I'd like to help you out, but you've gotta be a LOT more specific about just
what you need to do.
In my experience, people who "produce interactive training and games" and to
whom "mutimedia is not a buzzword but a reality" are extremely familiar with
specific operations that perform specific results. These operations allow one
to produce quality finished work in a timely manner. I have NEVER had
production problems like those you seem to describe using 3DS. Then again, I've
never asked it to do anything it wasn't really designed to, either.
Although it certainly may not be the case, your message seems to indicate a
lack of experience in the production of mutilmedia applications. Please get
back to me with your specific needs, and I'll do my best to help you see what
exactly 3DS does, and doesn't do, and how it applies to your project.
Regards,
-Alan Iglesias
Alan,
Aren't you being too hard? I think that the guy have his points and like you, I
think that 3DS is not perfect but is the most closed thing to perfect you can
find on the PC arena (in fact, we all are fanatics! 🙂 However, there are a lot
of things that people want to see in the program and that is why we all make
our wishes to Saint Jonas 🙂 (who should be called Job, because of his patience
🙂
Asking for direct links to other video formats, "near-realtime" manipulation of
textures, floating customizable palettes are not out of tone. In fact, Jonas
have all of them in the r4 wishlist. Also like you, I think that calling a
program "unusable" for not having this features is not other thing but
excessive and not true.
Come on, Alan, I bet the guy is a 3DS fan a little excited because of too many
TGA to Quicktime crossplatform compilations! He only wanted to make a manifest
to make his life a little easier 😉
pax romana!
ana /krazy images
ps.As for Quicktime, I don't want to seem the Mac promoter in the forum but
Quicktime, and specially the latest version, is maybe the closest thing to
perfect unassisted computer video I have ever seen. Mac games are all Quicktime
based and programmers don't need to go for propietary video compression like
their DOS counterparts (because of the lack of video support by DOS and
Windoze). I think that developers will be more than happy to see a Quicktime
like video support in Windoze. Certainly, they will save the time and money
invested in their own compression programs 🙂
Am I being too hard? Nope. I don't think I'm being hard at all.
I'm only asking him to be clear and specific about what he is convinced 3DS
cannot do.
When he is clear about it I'll say a)"nope, 3ds don't do that" or b) "Here's
what you can do to fix that problem".
-Alan
Mmmmh, I don't know why but I got the impression of an agressive reply to him.
But nah, that's not my Alan kind of reply <g>
ana /krazy images
No, I see where Alan jumped… our Mac friend said he jumped on 3D
Studio because he thought it looked very, very good… then, he proceeded to
flame the program to no end… seems legit to me.
Thomas,
See my reply to the guy and you will understand. After all the hot episodes in
the forum these days, I thought a little "calm down" type of message was going
to be appropiate. I agree 110% with Alan and he knows how I think about this
subject.
ana /krazy images
>>agressive reply<<
See? You are starting to rub off on me, Ana!<g>
It must've been that picture I saw of you…
-Alan
It is good to be agreesive sometimes 😉
ana /krazy images
Alan,
Anyone who has used Electric Image would be distressed by the number of steps
required by 3DS to apply texture maps.
I've played around with EE a bit myself, Robert, so I agree with your
observationg regarding EE/3DS mapping comparisons. But if you read his original
message, he was implying *many* more 3DS shortcomings which made 3DS unsuitable
for MM development work.
If the mapping thing was the only complaint, I wouldn't even have responded at
all.
-Alan
I thought that his request for Quicktime and AVI were also justified. Quicktime
is an extremely flexable format. If I could render Quicktime to the server I
could composite in After Effects. I would love to do this without using Debab.
Don't even start with composting within VideoPost. It works but I cannot apply
motion or keyframing to the objects or effects. Don't get me wrong I think that
VideoPost is great. I reminds my of what Digital Arts had back in the late
'80s. I believe they called it Produce.
>>I thought that his request for Quicktime and AVI were justified<<
Almost any request is justifiable. Sure, it'd be nice, but what would you
rather have Gary doing? Adding support for yet another format that you can
already easily convert to or concentrate on producing a top-notch renderer with
workstation-level capabilities?
I could name *lots* of things 3DS could do to make my life a little easier, but
I look at the big picture. 3DS is used for a LOT more than just MM development,
and IMHO, the Yost Group's priorities have been pretty dang fair about
supporting the overall user base.
But, no, I don't agree that the lack of direct QT support in 3DS justifies
anyone in saying that 3DS is a poor choice (or "unuseable", as he put it) for
MM development work. That is a just not true.
I'd agree that the request for direct QT support is, however a good wish-list
item.
-Alan
I'll second that QT support wish. If QT was do-able easily, I'd _consider_
getting a MAC just for CoSA After Effects. Multimedia is the least part of my
buisness at this point (that will probably change with the market…), but QT
and After Effects are awesome for all types of stuff.
I'd also like to see VP turn into something at least resembling Wavefront's
Composer, i.e. a seperate module with time lines (real ones, not red lines with
dots <g>), drag and drop, preview windows, etc…
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
Composer *is* a nice package…
-Alan
Composer is wonderful. Too bad it only runs on SGIs.
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
I've just got this vision for r4's VP….<g>
-Alan
I think you and I are sharing the same VP dream! <g>
John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
I agree with you on many points. One of the most difficult and time consuming
aspects of using 3ds is setting up mapping coord and smoothing groups. I feel
both of these could use improvement.
I had Quicktime, AVI, and PICT on my rel 2 wishlist. The FLx file format has no
official support for sound and simply does not understand the concept of time.
This makes it worthless for certain applications.
I also use both platforms. I have my macs and my pcs wired together via novell.
I'm pushing the 3DS guys for a portable renderer so that I can do network
rendering on the PowerPC and SMP rendering under NT.
Welcome onboard w/ 3ds.