CompuServe Thread

#Demo reel rights

16 messages in this thread
#109384From: madeline baumJun 23, 1994 11:54 PM
Hi, everyone. I've been using 3DS for a little over a year, and I have finally gotten enough work together to make my first demo tape (yay!). Someone really scared me today, though. They brought up the question of whether I have the right to put work that I did for clients on my demo reel. I've seen so many animation demo tapes with work that was obviously done for clients that I never gave it any thought. What's the standard in this area? Do I have to get written releases (groan)? I assumed that because I am selling my skills, not the animation itself, there would be no problem. Any light anyone could shed would be very welcome; if I can't use all this stuff, I've got no reel! Also – what about music on the demo? Do I have to find royalty-free music? Or do I have to pay for needle-drop music? Or can I use copyrighted music since, again, the purpose of the tape is not to be sold but to show what I can do and show it to its best advantage (which of course means put to music)? Thanks in advance, Madeline
#109414From: MARTIN G FOSTERJun 24, 1994 3:22 AM
Madeline, my feeling is that if you did the work, you can show it on your demo tape unless you specifically signed away that right. Lawyers could argue about this for weeks but since you are not selling the demo tape, where's the damage?
#109427From: John EllisJun 24, 1994 8:33 AM
Martin, >> my feeling is that if you did the work, you can show it on your demo tape.. << FWIW I think its safer to specifically state what you believe your rights to be in the production contract. I include the following statement in all my contracts and about 60% of the time it has been modified to some degree. Sometimes to outright exclusion. USE OF THE PRODUCT…. Purchasee agrees to allow Anigrafix the use of the Project for, but not limited to, demonstration, and/or other activities Anigrafix deems appropriate, unless otherwise specifically stated. Work which has been subcontracted to me by one company for one of its major clients has been a touchy issue in several cases. I think it best to at least bring it to the attention of any new client, that way you know exactly where you stand and in some cases can negotiate for higher rates. -JE
#109477From: MARTIN G FOSTERJun 24, 1994 1:58 PM
John, your approach is probably safer, but I rarely work with any kind of written contract so I just make assumptions based on sound principles. The point is: what harm has been done? If you are showing some secret or unreleased project I can see where this might be harmful. Otherwise…
#109502From: John EllisJun 24, 1994 4:50 PM
Martin, I totally agree with you in principle, but as it has been an issue with many people I've contracted with for a variety of reasons, I'm parcticularly sensitive to the fact that while I've created it, many clients feel they "own" it to the exclusion of showing the work out of context. Here's another addendum that was requested in a contract I worked on several months ago: Anigrafix agrees that it will not grant rights in final art at anytime to individuals or organisations intending to use final art in published products that will compete with XYZ's products or create confusion in the mind of the public between such published products and XYZ's products. I don't know why I would do this or why any organisation would try to do this but as you can see it was a serious concern. Harm as viewed in this light, is in the eye of the beholder. -JE
#109589From: Don LandisJun 25, 1994 11:37 AM
>>Anigrafix agrees that it will not grant rights in final art at anytime to individuals or organisations intending to use final art in published products that will compete with XYZ's products or create confusion in the mind of the public between such published products and XYZ's products. They are concerned about possible conflict of interest should you also contract with their competition. Two points: This sounds like a noncompete agreement to me and I would agree to it for a period of time while I worked on their project. Once the project was over I would only agree to non compete clause if a MONTHLY consideration was paid and either party could back out of the contract with a 30 day notice. I once did this with a chemical company that I did some consulting for and they paid me $200 per month for a year and a half and then decided to back out. Organisation is spelled organiZation. Been working long hours lately?<BG>
#109618From: John EllisJun 25, 1994 5:10 PM
>> They are concerned about possible conflict of interest should you also contract with their competition. << It may sound like a noncompete agreement to you but that's not what it is. What they're saying is that I won't give (sell) the final art that I've produced to the competition. That's all. As that clause is directly incorporated into the sentence "will not grant rights in final art" the legal intrepretation is the final art can't be used for the purpose "to create confusion in the mind of the public." Its not likely the competition would hire me to do that. The connection is too evident, and could be challenged too easily. Which is why I thought it interesting they felt the need to include it in the contract. Not to change the subject but "lets" <g>, did you ever get PCTools for Windows? Its excellent. Windows the way Windows should have been in the first place. -JE
#109671From: Don LandisJun 26, 1994 1:09 AM
>> PCTools for Windows? Used to have PC Tools but discovered Norton Desktop and have been using that ever since.
#109496From: M. G. BATCHELORJun 24, 1994 3:43 PM
As ridiculous as it may seem, several years ago and on 2 occasions I got in all kinds of hot water by using work I'd done for large clients on my demo reel. I don't do it any more. Also, I've experienced a lot of distracting problems when negotiating this up-front with large clients. I stopped doing that as well. I suppose it's got a *lot* to do with the specific client, the type of work, the field (i.e., architectural, commercial spots, etc.), and how "lucky" you are. That is, if you seem to attract chaotic behavior (like me), be careful <g>. BILL
#109505From: John TissavaryJun 24, 1994 4:56 PM
>>if you seem to attract chaotic behavior (like me), be careful <g>.<< GGGGGG John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
#109588From: Don LandisJun 25, 1994 11:37 AM
I've been down this road many times and have a formula that is fairly fool proof to keep you clean. I got this from a specialist copyright/trademark/patent attorney who I paid for this counseling! ALL work is protected under the US copyright laws as a common law protection and the original creator retains these first rights. Second, the original creator may assign via a legal instrument, ie. contract and/or employment, to the purchaser. This means that it MUST be specifically spelled out in the instrument in order to hold up in court including an employment contract. [employment is not work for hire but actually being on ones payroll]. In the absence of a legal document spelling this out the purchaser may argue that the creator "implied" a complete transfer of rights to him but these cases are always negotiated in a court and a judicial decision arbitrated based on the legal facts presented. In other words, one can be civil sued for anything, at any time, for any reason. Generally speaking, the courts have held, in these cases, mostly for the original artist, not the purchaser so it is rare that a company or individual will actually go beyond threats and scare tactics to arbitrate their case. I had a problem once with the mickey mouse Company legal dept. and I told them to sue me and gave them my atty's name and address. I then told them not to call me ever again or I would press charges of harrassment. I never heard from them again. On the otherhand, if you actually sold the rights to your employer or to a client and it was very specifically spelled out as such you would be advised not to violate these terms. You would be advised to seek written permission for re-acquiring a specific right to use the work you originally sold. In consideration of the above, I have my own rules of ethics to go by and the formula has avoided the distraction mentioned in this thread by others. For animation and videos of industrials, machinery, and possible proprietary processes I volunteer a signing of a trade secrecy agreement for a specified period of time, say 2 years. During this period I agree to hold any work in secret as part of the contract. My industrial clients are always impressed with this and only two clients have actually desired this. The others were opposed to this and wanted me to give their animation any exposure I would. None has yet asked for a longer period than 2 years. For logos and ad pieces I never bring up the subject and have never had a problem. For music I have music libraries that I pay royalties on a monthly blanket charge. This gives me a great amount of musical freedom. I'm in the video post business so this library is a necessity. I also do scoreing of videos for other video production companies. I ocasionally have customers that desire a popular hit and insist on this from a purchased CD. I have a contact in NYC that is a clearing house for obtaining the rights and permissions for any published music. MOST are shocked when they find out what the cost of a single sync right (copying music to video tape) is to copy one piece of music to their video even though it will be only for personal, non-profit use as in a home movie of ones vacation. The price goes up from there as in educational only to "demo tape to show your stuff" to selling a product, to retailing your video, to renting your video, to broadcasting, to public performance showing of the video. The cost just keeps going up. To attempt to get permission from the record company is just legal suicide as you will only have one part of the total permissions you need. That's why I use an agency that handles ALL the clearances. In all the years I've been doing videos for clients, I've only ever had one client that agreed to pay the cost for a pop tune in his video. It was the single most costly part of the production. There is a very low cost way to put music on your videos and that's to purchase a "buyout" library. Once you buy thi type CD it has a royalty free unlimited use for a period beyond a lifetime. The average CD buyout is running between $45 and $100 each with usually an hour of music. I don't use these because I find I need a greater variety at my disposal that a 40,000 CD library has. I keep about a hundred CD's here that I picked out from those 40,000 by catalog sheets and categories. If you wish to check out the buyouts check out magazines classifieds like AV Video and Videography. Having stated all the above, my last advice for you is to get the counciling of a legal specialist in the area of copyrights and trademarks. Info obtained here on the forum is always just opinions and not to be banked on. If you're in this business professional information will be a valuable educational asset. Work up a series of questions and pay for an hour of a professional's time. DO NOT get copyright info from just any old country lawyer as most of them are arrogant, ignorant, legally dangerous, and stupid.
#109612From: MARTIN G FOSTERJun 25, 1994 3:43 PM
Don, great information Don. I'd like to add that I haven't had any conflict yet with my approach either, although my volume of work is probably lower than yours.
#109836From: David J. MarksJun 27, 1994 11:12 AM
Don, Thanks for sharing your experience on (some of the many) legal concerns about animation work. Being reletively new to this and not producing huge volumes of work, we haven't encountered any problems, YET. But it certainly doesn't hurt to be a little careful, just in case… – Dave
#110984From: Andrew McClaryJul 3, 1994 10:21 AM
Dave, I am coming in a little late to this thread but wnated to comment that most clients are willing to let you use the work you have done for them as long as it is only for your own self promotion. I always ask my clients up front and put a clause in my contract that my company can use the animations and illustrations for promotional purposes in the animation industry competitions, company demo reels, and brochures. There is usually also a date put in as to when we may begin using the animations for this purpose so that we are not releasing ideas or information to anyone that might be construed as their competition. This date is usually after the animation has made its first public showing. I have only had a couple of clients refuse this clause, which was fine, they just paid a little more. Andrew McClary Graphic Alchemy Productions, Inc.
#111017From: Constance R. RothJul 3, 1994 4:07 PM
Andrew, sounds civilized — I like it. 🙂 Connie
#109597From: Timothy J LyversJun 25, 1994 12:53 PM
Madeline, Pick up the current issue of Digital Video Magazine (July '94). It has an excellent article about music libraries and different methods of payment. Good advice from the article: "When scoring a video, you have three real choices: 1) write the music yourself, 2) pay the people who wrote it, 3) don't }sd music." The article also has a partial list of music suppliers. Hope this helps. tjl