#Delay In PVR Shipment
30 messages in this thread
To all those who may be waiting for the PVR…
I just had my dealer call about the PVR from DPS anf they are now saying the
new ship date is August…. I ordered mine at NAB and was hoping to have it
this month as promised. Seems that the earlier rumors about its delay were true
despite the protests to the contrary by the DPS folks.
Cheers,
Tom
Interesting news; I was afraid of that. Thanks.
Tom,
Was your dealer Digimation? Last time I talked to Jeff at Digimation he told
me that the PVR should ship in the July to August time frame.
Roy.
DPS claims to be shipping boards starting this week with the Win3.1 software
and NT sometime in July. That's the word as of yesterday anyway.
Paul -Rising Star Graphics
My dealer just confimed the Win 3.11 version is shipping
Cheers,
Tom
>>My dealer just confimed the Win 3.11 version is shipping
Yes, but very tight allocation. I just got one in to be my demo unit. DPS
hasn't said when I'll get the rest of my order. Soon, I hope 🙂
Paul -Rising Star
Thomas,
The PVR is shipping now, I just ordered one. There is one problem though. If
ordered with the daughter card (which is what I did) it will not fit into the
tower. The CPU on the mother card is in the way. Cameron (Cyberimage) is
working on a solution to this problem for me now. DesignLab is also confirmed
this "fit" problem. Looks like DPS may have dropped the ball big time on this
one.
When I was building a robot, I had a catalog for pin and slot connectors. I
wonder if there is way to maybe externalize the two cards with ribbon cables.
Anyone have any thoughts on that?
Terry
>>PMJI here, a tower case for a computer cost about $100, of your are talking
about spending $3,000 – $4,000 on the PVR hardware & drives, what's $100? I
think DPS has a lot more to worry about than making there product fit into some
of these slim tower cases. I use a wide medium tower case that is the "Diamond"
series by SuperPower, a very high quality case that holds 6 1/2 hight drives
and duel fans for around $100.00 and will works just fine with the PVR. There
is about 3" above the screw rail for mounting the cards and lots of air space
for cooling those hot drives.
-Mike
Mike,
Thanks for the input. I've got over $25,000 sunk into this project. So, *I*
also was having trouble believing that "fit" was going to keep me from getting
all the components I wanted. I am happy to report that I *just* heard from
Cameron, and all is ok. He talked to the DPS people and says there is no
problem. WHEW!
Terry
Terry, I really didn't think that it should be a problem on most computer
cases. There are going to be more problems with the PCI mother boards and the
CPU & RAM getting in the way than there will be computer case problems. Glad to
here that everything worked out O.K.
-Mike
Mike,
Sorry, I guess I wasn't real clear on my last. It *was* the CPU getting in the
way that was the problem. Actually the CPU fan, the tower case wasn't the
problem. I'm just glad I've got Cameron and Murph turnkeyrizing this system for
me rather than my origianl plan. Which was to buy all the components and
install them myself. You would have seen a "Good by cruel world" header in this
forum.
Might be something for someone who is already set up and thinking about
purchasing a PVR to consider though. If you're going to install it yourself,
take some very precise measurments. It's a big card, and the two of them (with
the daughtercard) are pretty wide.
Terry
Terry,
>> Actually the CPU fan, the tower case wasn't the problem <<
This is a problem that I have been prepared for, I talked to Brick in the DPS
Booth at NAB and he is the one that made me aware of the problem of the PCI
slots being in alignment with the CPU & cooling fan . I think that I missed the
first part about CPU, thats what I get for jumping in on you guys, sorry about
that. It sounds like you are under control, PVR with Razor Pro and NT, I can't
wait<G>.
-Mike
Mike,
I'm brand new to all this, so jump in any time. I can use all the input I can
sqeeze outa you guys. Yeh, I can't wait either, I've got PVR, Razor Pro, NT,
3DS, Animator Studio, Bones Pro, Key Framer, Liquid Speed, Eye Browse, Texture
Universe, Yost Group disk 7, Humanoid, and Metaballs on the way. I've got
Cameron and Murph putting new tires on and getting it track ready. That oughta
be enough to get me started. But, you want to talk about can't wait!? UPS just
moments ago delivered my Digimax digitizer, so maybe that will keep me
preoccupied until I get the rest of it.
I didn't jump in here to run down DPS in any way. I just didn't want anyone to
make the mistake I *almost* did. In fact, I want the PVR so bad, I was even
considering the possibly of completely changing the workstation platform to
make it possible. Glad that was't necessary though.
Thanks, Terry
Terry,
NICE last name, it has a familiar ring to it<G>.
>>Might be something for someone who is already set up and thinking about
purchasing a PVR to consider though. If you're going to install it yourself,
take some very precise measurments. It's a big card, and the two of them (with
the daughtercard) are pretty wide.<<
I'm in the process of buying a Pentium computer and was trying to make sure
that I have room for the PAR or PVR at a later date. You say "take some very
precise measurements", how would you go about doing that? Is there some numbers
provided by DPS? What motherboard are you using and how many slots/full length
slots does it have of each type(ISA/PCI).
When I asking the vendors how many full length slots there, they say something
like, that depends on how wide the board is at the tail. I hate to buy based on
some guess about the slots. Have you any suggestions? I have sent a request for
a quote to the Murph, I hope that he comes up with something I can afford.
Do you have the phone number for DPS, I would like to get some info?
Regards…………Rick – Technical Animations
Rick,
The phone number I have for DPS is about a year old. I gave it to Cameron, and
he talked to them. So, I figure it must still be good. As far as the
motherboard and slots question goes. Of all the people I talked to before
deciding which one to purchase, everyone agreed that the ASUS was the best.
Mine has 8 total slots, 4 of each. I have been led to believe though, that the
spacing of the slots, are not all the same on different boards. But, I'm about
three parsecs beyond *my* area of expertise. So, I'll turn that over to the
experts. Not being real sure of the ethics involved, I'm not real sure of how
much detail I can go into about the deal I ended up making with Cameron and
Murph. Especially now that they are still holding all my stuff <g>. But, I can
tell you that you will be hard pressed to find anyone better to work with.
Digital Processing Systems 11 Spiral Drive, Suite 10 Florence, KY 41042 Tel
606-371-5533 Fax 606-371-3729
Terry
Terry,
I'm not sure if I said in my first message, but James Murphy is my 3DS dealer
to. You're right the Murph is great to work with. I am waiting for a quote from
Murph now.
I have one quote that uses the ASUS P54TP4 motherboard, is this the one that
you are using? When I asked how many full length slots, side by side, JB said
"2 ISA and 2-3 PCI slots", is this what you have found? When you have a PAR or
PVR, is there any need for a Targa+ board?
Regards………….Rick – Technical Animations
Rick,
I'm not sure which motherboard (model number) Cameron is using, I just know
it's the ASUS. I do know that we were in a squeeze at first to make 4 PCI slots
enough. The PVR with the daughter card uses one and covers another. So that's
two taken up right there. We also had to remove the CPU fan and use a bigger
tower fan relocated to blow down on the CPU. After reading about the CPU fans
not lasting very long anyway, I'm glad we were forced to make this move now.
The Targa+ board is not necessary with the PVR and daughter board combo. I hope
not anyway, I'm not getting one. Am I correct in assuming the Targa board was
for working with video? If that's the case, the PVR handles all that without
additional boards. Cameron is also looking into using a different type power
supply that will not require the voltage regulator card, so that will open up
another slot. I don't remember exactly what went into each slot, but with the
eight I am getting they are all going to be taken up. Well, all the PCI slots,
anyway. And, I still need to add a scanner to this system. So, I'm kind of in a
crunch for slots right now.
To change the subject here a bit. I just got a Digimax digitizer Friday. Do you
have any experience with digitizers? This one is a lot less than I was
expecting. The models I end up with are very crude and messy. I think the
problem is that the model moves instead to the puck. The support bar for the
model is very long and thin, so therefore not very stable. For example, if I
just wanted to make a model of a cylinder and draw one end first. When I get
back to the starting point of the circle, the beginning and end of the line
will not match up. I can make it match, but I have to move the puck away from
the real model to do it. I was wondering if I used a digitizer that has the
model stationary and the puck on an arm, if this would solve that problem.
Also, if I end up with these crude models, can they be cleaned up with 3DS
after importing? I'm hoping that Impulse will just take it back and refund my
money. It only saves images in three file formats, only one of which can be
reloaded into it's own program. I'm not even sure if I can import these files
into 3DS.
If anyone reads this and has any answers, jump right in.
Thanks, Terry
Terry,
>>We also had to remove the CPU fan and use a bigger tower fan relocated to
blow down on the CPU.<<
I'd be interested to know if you have any problems with cooling the CPU that
way, let me know when you get the system.
>>After reading about the CPU fans not lasting very long anyway, I'm glad we
were forced to make this move now.<<
Do you know if they were using the "CPU-Cool" by PC Power & Cooling. All the
custom builders that I have talked to are using this one.
>>Am I correct in assuming the Targa board was for working with video? If
that's the case, the PVR handles all that without additional boards.<<
Yes you are correct about using the Targa for video. What I was wondering is if
there was anything that the Targa could do that the PAR/PVR could not and
therefore I would want to keep the Targa. This would of course take up another
full length ISA slot. Something more to worry about if it was needed.
>>Cameron is also looking into using a different type power supply that will
not require the voltage regulator card, so that will open up another slot.<<
Again I would be interested in what happens, let us know here on the forum,
please.
>>And, I still need to add a scanner to this system. So, I'm kind of in a
crunch for slots right now.<<
Wouldn't a scanner just hook up to the SCSI cable, no slot required if you are
using a SCSI drive. Maybe I'm all wet on this<G>.
>>To change the subject here a bit. I just got a Digimax digitizer Friday. Do
you have any experience with digitizers?<<
I wish I could be more help, but I have never used one.
Thanks for all the info you're putting up on the forum, its helping me just
when I need it. I will probably make a decision on the system I will buy on
Friday and the PAR/PVR is just one factor that I have to consider.
Regards………….Rick – Technical Animations
This is one of my pet peeves. It is very hard to find a MB that puts the CPU
out from in back of the slots. With a fan one must reserve the precious slots
for short cards, putting all others on either side. I have an EISA system like
this and it has PAR, TBC IV, Targa+, and the Cache ctrl card that are full
height/full length. The other cards are 2/3 length and this leaves a hole for
the air to blow down on the CPU heat sink.
BTW: those little cpu fans don't seem to last more than 2-3 months around
here. I have resorted to just using a large heatsink and a 4" fan mounted 2
inches above the CPU. It stays much cooler that way and I have very few GPF's
in windows doing this compared to the failed CPU fans.
My par machine has 4 4" fans running; the CPU, the power supply, the dual PAR
drives, and finally one blowing across the PAR board itself. My room is always
warm but the computer thinks its cool! No pun intended. <G>
>> BTW those little cpu fans don't seem to last more than 2-3 months around
here… <<
Very good point, a jobber I know, said the best thing to do was take them off
especially if its a clone board because he knew of quite a few cases were the
fans died and actually caused the CPU's to overheat and die. Normally the board
would still be under warranty but a hassle most people can do with out…
personally I like those fan cards they sell at CompUSA but to use one, you've
got to give up a slot… I don't like packing everything in one system anyway,
so I've usually got a spare… the nice thing is they blow across the CPU
instead of down on it… they work great if you can spare the slot…
John
I have access to rack-mounted cases 19" that have fans, fans, fans. Reply if
interested and I can get you information. Eric
Thanks for the thought Eric, but I really think I'm in good shape.
John
Whether the air blows across or down on the CPU is really a matter of how the
heat sink is designed. I spoke at some length to a rep for a company that
designs very fancy heat sinks and fan assemblies for the DX-2 series CPU and
the pentium. He has both heat sink designs. When I told him of the way I did
it he said it would really work better with his heat sink but as long as the
CPU was below 110degrees F. I am doing the best possible. His company also
makes digital contact thermistor sensors to convert your CPU speed readout to a
CPU thermometer. Now that is a clever idea but it cost $99. The thermistor
mounted at the base of his heatsink. I was thinking of building one of these
for my PAR drives <G>
Do you remember the "ICE PAK" a solid state cooling unit for your CPU? That
company was actually claiming speed increase from their product application. I
always liked the idea but it was expensive and I never bought one.
I'm familiar with the fans on a card. OK for the average guy but I rather
custom design my cooling system for my systems. I own a contact thermometer
and do my thing with it as the evaluator. My PAR 2217A runs at 104 and the
2210A at 97 degrees with a 4 inch fan blowing air across them. My dx-2 66 is
running at 88 degrees. Heatsink + a 4 inch fan. No guesswork here!
Don,
>> I am doing the best possible… <<
Now why doesn't that suprise me? <g> Actually with the humidity in Fla. I
would think that this is a fairly serious issue for those running intensive
applications for professional reasons.
Here the weather isn't such a factor average lows in the 50's and high's in the
80's except when we get a Santa Ana… frankly I don't think the effort you've
gone to would be worth it for me… I've had zero problems with my Intel
Pentium boards… but just as a precaution, and because it is frequently a
topic here I added the fan boards… and they do keep the inner temperature in
the cases down… which is as much a factor of hi speed SCSI hd's as it is the
CPU… I did run these systems without a fan and without a fan mounted to the
CPU and never experienced any negative effect… course my towers have two fans
as well so maybe even the extra fan is overkill.
John
Don,
This is very typical of the manufactures, they are always butting heads with
each other with address conflicts, timming issues, MB layout or whatever else
happens, I often wonder if they do it just to keep us on our toes or if they
just don't listen.
As far as the MB issue, I'm not sure if you are asking or just making a
comment, the MB I use is a P90 and has onboard SCSI II, EIDE and I/O so this
leaves me with two extra PCI slots and the third I use for my Diamond Viper Pro
which is a 3/4 board.
-Mike
Don,
What size of Power Supply does it take to run all that equipment? Sounds like
the PAR might use alot, if it needs extra cooling.
Regards…………Rick – Technical Animations
I use 450 watt power supplies in both my work stations. PAR and targa+ boards
generate a lot of heat.
Don,
>>I use 450 watt power supplies in both my work stations. PAR and targa+
boards generate a lot of heat.<<
Wow, do you really think that I would need that much for targa+, PAR w/TBCIV,
tape backup, SCSI HDD, sound card, additional I/O card, 2.1 GB FastWide Segate
Barracuda HDD, 4 mb video card and 32mb ram on MoBo.
Do you know what the PAR requires for power by itsself? Does the PAR require 2
full slots by itself or only when the TBCIV is included?
Regards………….Rick – Technical Animations
I have a similar system with plenty of heat being generated. I had trouble
with 300 watt supplies not holding up so I went to the next size and these are
doing fine. I think you can figure about 3 watts per meg, 13-15 watts for a
small HD and 30 watts for a big one. (3.5 vs, 5.25)
The PAR is listed at 9.5 watts but I don't know where all the heat comes from.
Seems that it's more than 9.5 watts just in heat alone. It begins to add up.
Don,
Thanks for the reply. You're right, the 9.5 watts for a PAR doen't sound right,
in light of all the talk about the heat it generates.
For what it worth, my manual show the Targa+ at 13 watts .
Thanks again!!
Regards……………..Rick – Technical Animations