#Excellence!
30 messages in this thread
Ok…. I've had some time to beat on Ecellence with "serious" intent. I've used
probably every feature in the program (all that I could _find_, anyway) and am
satisfied that I have a reasonable grip on how the program works.
How? Well. It works _very_ well. I highly reccomend it. Things it does right
are positivly _legion_. I won't go into them unless asked, because it would be
a long discussion if I tried to be general to start off.
What's wrong with it? Plenty. No, I didn't find any bugs. What I *did* find
(that I object to) are the following "features":
Both the Table of Contents and the Index capabilties do single level indices…
period. I can live with it, but I don't have to LIKE it.
Page preview appears to only show you pages 1 and 2. It's not in the manual
either, so I can't be sure, but I have not been able to make it do that.
The manual…. well, it sucks. Neither the table of contents nor the index
successfully point you at much of anything. You either read it front to back or
you don't find things out.
But (here's a good point) – It doesn't MATTER much, because it's so EASY to
use. It is _easily_ the best/most WSYWIG program I have ever seen, bar none.
It's pretty quick, considering, too.
I'm getting one for my mom. That say anything? –Ben–
One thing I'm not sure about – does it have macros? If so I'm interested. If
not, I can't even consider it. I don't mean whimpy dumb-text macros, but
full-featured branching ones.
Henry, not only does it have macros…. it has one of the nicest macro systems
I've had the pleasure of using so far, bar none. You check it out. And give up
that wimpy, dumb-text beta level IBM port. <grin> –Ben–
Ben,
Does Excellence do "variable" macros i.e. you hit a key, the macro executes,
then pauses for you to type in text, then it finishes executing? How clean is
the screen? Does it display hard carriage returns? Where? Any other extra
formatting commands or ruler bars in sight? Does it work in interlace mode?
Is it line-oriented, page-oriented, or document-oriented? More specifically,
are the pages breaks dynamic, and on screen at all times, or must you
re-paginate? How does it handle widows/orphans? Can you force it to group a
section of text so it cannot be separated at page breaks? Can it handle lots
of changes in margin settings on a single page without jumping all over the
place? (One of my least favorite WP features…)
Lee
Gadz!
Er…. variable macros…. I dunno, I didn't beat them to death yet, and
manual is in suitcase, going to Montana to show a certain doctor… The screen
is immaculate – no Oids anywhere, it shows exactly what y+'re going to get,
period. And nothing else, unless you WANT something else. You can see
headers/footers/page numbers… you can have codes showing or not (and you can
EDIT either way!!!) It will show hard C/rs if show codes is on (or whatever
they call it) It shows them where they are… of course??? Did I miss
something? Ruler in sight or not, as you please; faaabulous tab control on the
ruler (should be a standard – it's flipping PERFECT) It works in interlace or
not, 2, or 4, or 8 colors modes, your choice of colors, Formatting commands
show as very cute (and very sensible) icons… you can recognize them right
away, once seen once. For instance, codes showing… see a litttle clock?
Current time inserted there. A square with a D in it? The date. a rectangle
with the bottom line thick – a footer. rectangle top line thick… (guess)
Header! font changes… show as font changes, what else? <grin> LIkewise
styling bold under, ital… what it is, it is. and color. and backround color.
Tabs and other stuff is local to a hard c/r, or para group. the ruler reflects
the tabs, so no codes show in the text. Grouping is done perfectly, drag select
(or use keys, or macro…) select "keep together" and it does. Simple. Margins
are simple, obvious, and I have not seen them misbehave at all. The grammar
checker is a dream… it's a LOT more than a grammar checker… ( I needed
something like that, anyway) It shows ruled dotted lines (in reveal codes mode)
that break out the header, footer, leftm and right margin… very nice… in
between pages… the page ends! Looks like… a page! (amazing…) it goes
instantaneously to the next scroll position with scroll bar, too – I _really_
like that. Ask me more… I'll explore the macros next week – gonna be on a
plane tomorrow, then a couple of birthdays… –Ben–
Ben,
That pause for text in the middle of a macro is essential for my work. So far
WP is the only Amiga word processor that has it. I'd really be interested to
know if Execellence does, too. Let me know when you get a chance (I'm not
close z@any Amiga dealers, or I'd look for myse9V$(LZ.yPcarriagI#jrns can be displayed right next to the text, or flush right
(ala Wordstar). If I have to see them at all, I prefer the latter. If they
can be turned off, the point is moot.
All those cute icons can be hidden though, right? Sounds like they can be.
Margins: Wordperfect has a "feature" that shifts everything flush left when you
change margins. So whether your text begins in column 0, or column 40, you're
always beginning flush left. I can have six or more margin changes on a page
in a screenplay. The effect with WP is the screen shifting back and forth.
Very irritating.
Grammar checkers I don't need none of. But I'm still curious about how page
breaks and widows/orphans are handled.
Thanks,
Lee
)SU+7vj*VW>hxwd Rumors
16-Jul-88 04:35:46
Ben,
Oh yeah, my documents are anywhere from 55 to 120+ pages. Any idea how
Excellence works with looong documents?
Lee
***In Montana now***
I have not yet tried the macros for you Lee, though I will very shortly. I plan
to show Anne the Excellence product in some detail, and we'll look at the macro
handling for you. Let you know tomorrow or later. Yes, CR's are off or next to
text – not flush right. yes, the icons only show if you want them to. For
instance, the "time" icon (a lil' clock) looks like – a little clock, of course
:^) but – if the show codes stuff is off, it's the current time. The margins
don't shift – they're where they ought to be, and the _cursor_ shifts, like
you'd expect. Does "wysiwyg" mean anything in this context? <grin> Page
breaks… ok. You have the paragraph, and you say, I want this paragraph all on
one page. Maybe including a title above the paragraph. You drag the mouse
around it, like you do in WP to select an area, then select "Keep Together"
from a menu (Or by hitting macro key) and it does, simple as that. Want to say
that the bottom 2 lines can't go, but otherwise, it's ok? mark the bottom 2 (or
3?) lines by dragging, then same thing. Keep Together. Or at the top. –Ben–
Ben,
By dynamic page breaks, I mean I'd like to see that line across the screen, and
when I add text to page 1, I'd like to see it push text over that line on to
page 2. And in the examples you gave, being WYSIWYG, I assume the lines shift
onscreen to accomodate the command. Yes?
Lee
yes – only they aren't just lines… there's a distinct "break" in the "paper",
which is (desk? similar concept?) something that exists between pages… just
for "feel". Neat as can be. It's a short area, perhaps 1 to 1.5 lines wide, but
vercy effective. And yes, the page break will show immediately, and yes, the
text moves where it should. –Ben–
Ben,
Okay! Good so far…
Lee
I can't afford it right now. Hmm…my birthday was last Monday, and no one
sent me anything (slight sniffle.) Maybe you and Steve and Doug and Keith
could…hmm…
(GRIN)
Happy Birthday Henry! Marlene
Yeah, maybe we should. Of course, we're not nice guys. <evil grin> –Ben–
I think I know which wimpy, dumb-text beta level IBM port you are talking about
Ben ;^) . I haven't been able to use that program since I got it. First, I had
to upgrade from the Beta Version, and then come to find out that the new
version can trash the hard disk. Ok, lets not beat around the bush. I'm talking
about WordPerfect, and if they don't do something soon to prove to me that
their product is worth something, its going in the trash, and I'll go get
Excellence.
John
I have this funny feeling that Ben has been suggesting Excellence!. I've had
both beta and final on it and I'm very pleased – its the first wp since
textcraft (beta) that I've had any desire to use. I like wysiwyg, and I've
been too spoiled by it to use anything else. Excellence! works, its usually
rather pleasant to use, and it gets my work done.
Ron
Thanks for the info on Excellence Ron. There is a local delear that has a demo
version. Think I will run down to the store sometime this week and take a look
at it. WordPerfect is getting closer to the trashcan all the time.
John
Looks kind of like a trend, doesn't it? <big smile> –Ben–
I always knew that you were a trend setter Ben. Well it doesn't look like WP
corp is serious about supporting the Amiga version, so I guess I had better
dump it and get something better. I was kinda hopeing that MSS would offer some
kind of special deal that other software companies have offered in the past.
Like send in your WordPerfect disks plus $75 and they would send you
Excellence. But I guess I can't get that lucky. Well Ben, the 20 meter Amiga
net is still going. Haven't had a whole lot of check ins this summer, and I've
been kinda busy myself. But we intend on keepi the net going, at least to
show we are serious about it, and hope that things will improve this winter.
Everyone on the net will be looking foward to the day that you can put up an
antenna and check in. Have you been working on any new Amateur related
software, or have projects at SoftCircuits been eating up your time?
John
So far, time has been at a premium. Plans are for a 5 element 20 meter
monobander sometime next spring, or sooner if I can manage it; At that time,
I'll become active again. As for an Excellence for WP deal… You know, the
reason most companies do that is beacuse they're slightly superior,
product-wise, and they use that as an "edge" to get in over the other products.
It's a great sales ploy to be able to say "We trade for WP's verrsion…
customers love to give em up". But I think that in the case of MSS, with
Brown-Waugh behinfd them, and their name so well known anyway, they won't need
to do anything like that. WOuld certainly be interesting if they try, but I
think not. Excellence isn't just a "little" better – it's far and away a
superior product, in a class far above word perfect. So far, I have accumulated
very few complaints with the program – I have had one lock up – and that was
intuition; the dopes at MSS used menuverify (you can always tell) and I ran
into something where a disk had a read error (trying to spell check from a
floppy here at Annes) and I pressed the menu button just as the requester came
up. The system deadlocked the pointer, and that was that. Time to reboot. I
would point out that this (initially) is CMB's mistake – the MENUverify
function _stinks_, and if used, causes deadlocks, period. There is NO way to
prevent the user from deadlocking the system if you use the option. MSS, for
their part, if they really know as much about the Amiga as they claim, should
have been aware that the function is nigh unto useless. That, and the manual –
which, while thick, is pretty poor – are my chief objections so far… as far
as the product's design goes. I'd like it to be faster, but it really IS pretty
fast, all things considered. COurse, I'm the guy who likes 180mph motorcycles,
so… <grin> –Ben–
Well you shouldn't have too much trouble checking into the net with a 5 element
20 meter monobander. In fact, you shouldn't have any problem checking into any
net you desire :^) I went down to the local Amiga dealer the other day and got
to play around with execellence! for a couple of hours. Needless to say, I'm
impressed! Like you said, it is a far superior product than WP. A lot of nice
features, and very easy to use. I didn't have to refer to the manual very much
at all. Of course, I didn't have a chance to try out all of its features, but
from what I did try, it looks very nice. As you said, I wish it were a little
faster, but I can live with it. So my next question is, do you know of anyone
who would like to buy my copy of WordPerfect? It only has 5 miles on it (broke
down after that).
John
John,
When does the 20 meter Amiga net meet, and on what frequency? I'd love
to check in some time. Thanks.
Darron, NR0Y
Darron: The 20 meter net meets on Sunday at 2200 UTC on 14.345 + or – QRM. We
don't have a whole lot of check ins now that Summer is here, but we would sure
love to have you check in when you get the chance. Kathy Wehr WB3KRN or Mike
WA1PTC are usually around for net control, and I usually help with check-ins
heard here on the West Coast, and as a alternate. There are 3 public domain
disks that Kathy has put together, all with Amateur related software. She also
publishes a small newsletter called the Amigan Beacon, and can be downloaded
here on CompuServe in the HAMNET forum. If you are interested in getting the PD
disks, just write Kathy and ask for them. The only requirements is that you
supply a self addressed mailer, enough money for return postage, and the 3
blank disks. Hope to catch you on the net soon Darron, and if you have any
friends that are Amiga Hams, we would like them to join us also!
73's & CUL John Gager K7KB
John,
Thanks for the information on the Amiga 20 meters net. I'll spread the
word around here in Minneapolis-St. Paul and will check into the net soon!
Thanks also for the rundown on the newsletter and PD disks.
73, Darron
Ben,
At least it aint broke! Would you consider Excellence a 'professional' word
processor? At least from your brief recommendation I'm going to give it a try.
I understand that the program gets slow as the document size increases,
especially if colors or other fillups are selected.
By the way I feel that our last messages re Word Perfect were anything but
productive. The most serious complaints were dismissed as the feelings of "two
guys out of very many who just didn't like the program.' (paraphrased) There
still is no update later than the 4/15 version despite the continuing bugs in
that version. And WP customer support assured me yesterday that Amiga 5.0 is
*at least TWO years away*
me: "Two years!? You're kidding!" WP support person: "<pause> <sigh> No sir.
Two years. I wouldn't kid about something like that!"
Cheers,
Rich
Well, I kept my mouth shut for the amount of time I figured it would take them
to fix the problems about ten times over… And since Lynn said he'd put me on
the Beta list so I could SEE the results, I figure I should have seen them by
now, IF they were serious about supporting it. Well, I have seen nothing, and
I'm done with the gag bit. It's broke, their support stinks (except for the
fact that they are polite, one shouldn't forget that… it does help when
you're steamed, sort of) Professional? Well, certainly. It seems to be
approximately as strong as word perfect tries to be, only it's also wsywig,
which WP most decidedly is not… it also (so far) appears to have no
particular bugs that I can find. All the little things are good – the prop
gadgets work, for instance. <grin>. The manual is weak, that's the major thing
that hurts it. In WP's case, the manual is better than the product. (Not that
it takes much, but…) The reason I bring it up is because that makes it a
little more difficult for an untrained, un-Amiga person to learn. On the other
hand, they used the Amiga interface _Exactly_ as it is supposed to be used – I
can't believe that the same guy wrote it…. it has a completely different feel
to it. And yes, it gets slow. I think they could do better here, but maybe not.
The progam does an awful lot, all the time. Perhaps this program is a good
excuse to slap an accelerator in the machine, eh? Cheers yourself! –Ben–
Ben,
I'm sure that the WP people are devoting most of their efoorts at PS2 5.0 and
the MAC. We've (Amiga) got a poorly ported program and nothing but promises.
I'm going to get a copy of Excellence today. Hope I can live with Pe decrease
in speed as document size increases. Don't feel like paying another $600 for an
accelerator board. I assume you're referring to something like the 68020 board
from the outfit in San Diego (CSA?).
Rich
Yes – that seems to be the case, or something that has the same effect – Glad
you're going to get Excellence – I think it's really worthy of some
consideration. Let me know what you think… your needs are somewhat different
than mine ( manuals, brochures ) and I'd like to hear about your conclusions.
Yes – I was referring to the CSA board. Hope the program meets your needs…. I
don't often recommend something, as it makes me nervous. <grin> –Ben–
Ben,
My needs are lots of medical and medical legal reports and then a growing
volume of what are essentially manuals, brochures and of course, tons of
correspondence ( lots of single and multi-page letters).
Some other reports here indicate that Excellence does not allow multitasking
and that crashes are frequent. I'll know for myself soon.
Rich
Well, no crashes here, and I have _no_ problems multitasking so far. It
certainly uses the window interface (custom screen of it's own, btw) well, and
allows you full access to other tasks… doesn't seem to be a CPU hog, nuther.
Where did you get the info about the multitasking? Perhaps I'm missing
something.
Ben,
Can't remember the author of the negative comments. Received them here on the
forum in another message thread.
Rich