#Imagine Screen Shots
39 messages in this thread
The screen shots have been delayed just a bit as I whip up some objects for
them, but they'll be up some time this week for certain! –Rick
C'mon, Rick. That seems a little lame. Besides, we don't want to see your
objects, we want to see the program. Just stick a sphere or a cube in
there, f'goshsakes. So Imagine is worth waiting for. I believe you. It is
a matter of how long it's worth waiting for, though. Don't forget- 3D
Professional is on the market; and the Toaster is in production (or so I
hear). What's my point? Impulse still has a way to go to equal the NewTek
"ToasterRama Delay from Announcement". Like two years, right. But don't
push your luck. And please, (for the rest of the Computer Vendors out
there, too) take your time and get it right. But don't tell us things will
be ready "On May 31st" when that's just a "gee I hope so" date. I know
it's symptomatic of the industry as a whole. But thanks to CompuServe, I
have an open line to gripe to you, so forgive the polemic- it's not
personal.
Still– I'm starting to get a little concerned about Imagine and
the Firecracker.
Godspeed,
Jeff.
Whenever I hear someone complaining about release dates, I remind them that
the developer in question would LOVE to get the product out as soon as
possible, and that NO ONE in the entire universe wants that product on the
market more than they do. So your pleadings fall on deaf ears – you're
telling them what they know already, times ten! A Squared would have LOVED
to have had the Amiga Live! on the market when they thought they could…
Digital Creations would LOVE to ship DCTV before the Toaster ships…
NewTek would LOVE to have shipped the Toaster a year ago… Impulse would
LOVE to ship Imagine on July 31. If slipped release dates bother you, then
don't ask when something's going to be ready! Developers know they
shouldn't pre-announce products, except when they're tempted by
pre-announcements as a way of judging demand, or to circumvent the
announcements of competitors, for instance. But developers sometimes
pre-announce ship dates because of pressure from pleading, begging users,
too.
Granted, I do see reasons for early announcements, such as 'will people buy
this thing at the price we say?' "how many should we make on the first
run?", "can we get press notice, etc.?" And honestly, I have always
thought the support from Impulse was among the best– the fact that they
are on line here (and frequently, too) attests to that. Perhaps the Amiga
market is too small for companies to throw as many resources at a problem
as they might like to, no? After all, if IBM say "by Christmas", they can
always drop a couple of million to make sure they don't lose face. (money
which they would get back from future sales, anyway).
It is just an ongoing frustration for us (users) to anticipate
things… and anticipate …. and wait… I suppose everyone making Amiga
hardware has problems with their suppliers from time to time; it's just
hard for me to relate, because if I would ever miss a deadline, I would
lose a client– for good.
Jeff,
When you mention the IBM world – and due-dates.. you'd better research what
your saying. Perhaps IBM itself has the resources to do that, but the
software developers for IBM's are not different than the Amiga developers.
Take for instance, the infamous Ashton-Tate DBASE IV product for the IBM.
This was obviously a product released too earlier, before adequate testing
was performed. The DBASE IV package had a severe bug in it, which in my
opinion caused the package to drop considerably in popularity. Then
Ashton-Tate releases info concerning the bug fix (new update) and release
date. I think that they still haven't produced the bug fix (Though I think
I may be wrong, I think they did so a few weeks ago – though I'm not sure).
Anyhow, the point I"m trying to make is that any developer out there is
plagued with release dates and trying to meet them. It's very common to be
overdue, and in the computer field, one takes release dates with a grain of
salt!
J.Foust- I certainly agree about the mystery of Amiga development.
Although I certainly don't expect any product (whatever the price) to be
'perfect for all video needs', I do wonder how much Commodore cares about
the "high low-end": 6 months ago, I asked a local dealer's 'video expert'
about a frame buffer for the Amiga– he told me there wasn't one available
yet- I had to tell him to find out about Mimetics. It was disturbing that
he was not aware of some of the Amiga "high-end" products. Could Commodore
acknowledge their hardware shortcomings? i.e. "we can't afford to put
24-bit color in the machine, but tell your customers they can buy this
board or that board."
Rick from Impulse– Looking forward to both. I was curious about the
FCC A/B certification also (as mentioned in the NewTek section). Seems like
the SuperGen2000S is a "commercial use only" product– does this limit the
distribution? You folks know more than I re: this, but is this a concern
with Firecracker production? Or is the FCC just slow no matter what? Or
just slow with Amiga hardware?
Joe– you're right about IBM- I was just guessing. My big gripe with
release dates is that seemingly everyone pretends they are real. I am much
less bothered by vague dates than constantly changing 'real' dates. Maybe
we could get used to the concept of "as soon as possible"? Like, the stuff
ships as soon as possible, just like always, and the vendors can say "we
think less than a year, but no promises". But, yeah, then there's folks
like me calling up at the end of a year asking for product. Maybe the
problem is that company target dates (for internal schedules) are used as
public release dates, without a 'safety buffer'. So what's the rule of
thumb? Take the release date and add 9 months? I should probably be happy
I'm on the easy side of the vendor/buyer relationship.
Impulse definitely wants an FCC Class B certification. The hope is that
the Firecracker will be the buffer for the rest of us. –Rick
Rick, where can I find info on the FireCracker? What I heard about it long
ago I forgot (long ago) <sigh> –Eet–
Director of Mayhem
Extra Terrestrial Imports, Ltd.
Jim, call the hotline at 800-328-0184 and they can answer all your
questions. You can see the Firecracker in Siggraph Aug 7 – 9. –Rick
(some more ranting and raving…) The biggest frustration I have at
present is the lack of a real, clean, 24-bit frame buffer for the Amiga. I
know everyone is working on it. It still is a real mystery to me why
*Commodore* has not taken the lead on this– there are what- 3, 4? ,more?
pro/industrial quality 3D animation programs for the machine, and IBM and
Apple have better full-color output options. Where have theks in West
Chester been? Leaving the task to smaller (and I would guess
less-well-capitalized) companies to make the hardware add-ons. I've spent
more $$ on 3rd party stuff than on Commodore hdwr.
But here's the funny thing:
I still like my Amiga; and will probably get a 3000 in some form as
well before the end of the year. So when I'm not bitching, I'm pretty
appreciative of all the work the vendors are doing. It's just a Jekyl/Hyde
thing, this Amiga business…
Sometimes it seems like the innovation in the Amiga market can be stifling,
huh? I mean, two-three little tiny companies come up with frame buffers,
and Commodore doesn't think there's much of a market, but they are willing
to wait for any company to make a product that is successful, and they do a
job on them in various ways to directly compete with the small companies
who busted their behind making the product successful. Commodore announced,
promo'd and refused entry to NewTek in booths soon after they demo'd the
Toaster, and Commodore offered their PVA board. Remember that? Where did
it go? And they'd poured development money into the U-Lowell video board,
too, for several years. And years later, it isn't shipping, and it isn't
compatible with Intuition, you still need to custom program. There's the
Mimetics frame buffer, the Impulse video buffer, the Framegrabber, Amiga
Live… all shipping, at a price, but none "perfect" for every video
application.
Jeff, I'm uploading an ANIM of one of Imagine's modules at work. Hope it
suffices 'til the mid August shipping date! Not to worry about the
Firecracker either. We'll have three of them at Siggraph in Dallas Aug.
7-9. –Rick
Rick,
Great! I'll be at SIGGRAPH again this year, and will look forward to
seeing all the Impulse stuff. Will it all be in CBM's booth or their own?
Are you going?
We've been playing here with a crippled Imagine demo that Mike H. gave a
local guy at AmiExpo. Boy, is it great! Unfortunately, the demo only runs
on an 020 or 030, so I'm biting my nails at how it may run on my plain 'ole
68000 when Imagine arrives at my doorstep (prepaid, ya know). Oh well, must
wait and see. Are you running either faster processor?
Hope the manual's going OK. Though, by the early look of things, the
program can probably run without a manual easier than TS could have. My,
that Transformations requestor is tiny! Surely there must be something
missing!
Counting the days until SIGGRAPH,
Karl
A crippled demo version? Aaargh! Hey Rick! How about putting that up here
for us faithful semi-patient types 🙂 Scott
Ruh-roh.
I assumed that if Halverson (sp?) gave it out to someone I know at
AmiExpo, then it was something widely available.
Oops,
Karl
Rick- thanks for the shots & anim. Very impressive- and a very 'clean'
looking program, too. Can't wait to actually work with it; not just for
all the extra goodies and real animation, but for the low-fatigue
ergonomics- i.e., the screen layout, color map, and the hidden-line
perspective. All should make it easier to sit at the console for that extra
couple of hours to really tweek something. I assume one can magnify a
top/front/side window to full screen? Ah well, this and other mysteries
can wait for the real package. 'Cause I'll get what I get, right? But,
well, ya really got us drooling now.
And a note about the earlier harangue… I was just guessing about IBM
release dates. Sorry. One thing- seems like it would behoove developers to
set the 'public' release date 6-9 months after the internal (target) date.
That way, if you're on time, you're early, no? Or is it impossible to keep
a (company) target schedule secret?
For the FCC– too bad they aren't elected. Might be easier to light a fire
under them to get them moving on all the Amiga products waiting for
approval.
Later— Jeff
Jeff, getting full screen views of the different perspectives is merely a
matter of clicking in the middle of the axis located in each view or using
a keyboard combination. I'll be uploading a screen shot of Stage before I
leave for Siggraph next week. –Rick
Have fun at SIGGRAPH. Maybe next year for me. One question that is an old
issue for me, but I don't think I have asked about it:
Currently, in Silver, when one renders a view, there is a lot of
vertical distortion (keystoning). The camera can be pointed at the dead
center of an object, with no tilt up, down, left or right to either objects
or camera, and the vertical lines in the object are drawn skewed as if you
are below the object looking up. Has this quirk been addressed? To
clarify.. what should look like this:
. .
. .
. .
looks like this (in Silver):
. .
. .
. .
Thanks. (Jeff)
I've seen that a lot in Turbo Silver, too. Silver gives you a lot of
freedom for setting the focal length of the imaginary camera that takes the
picture for you… In other words, you're free to create a wide-angle
lens, which introduces the distortion you described. Once upon a time, I
knew how to avoid this, but I can't remember now… sorry. Perhaps
someone else can jump in here to help.
When trying to eliminate perspective distortion place the camera so that it
is looking straight ahead. Backing up and using a longer focal
jeff
I really would like a reply from Impulse on this distortion thing. I
spent 10 years doing commercial photography before I started computer
animation: I know what lens distortion is and where it comes from. This is
*not* 'normal' distortion. It can only be compensated for by unnatural
camera angles or object tilts, which cause unrealisitic perspective: i.e.,
the sides of letters are straight, but the object has been tilted so to get
the verticals to agree that you're looking down at like a 15-20 deg. angle.
It would seem that this is a function of the environment description inside
the code, or polar co-ords adding some sort of unpleasantness, but I don't
write code, so I can only guess.
John, just adjust the Z viewpoint for the camera to 1.5 or above. –Rick
BTW, you going to Siggraph?
Jeff, you can resolve this problem in SV by changing either the focal
length or adjusting the Z viewpoint for the camera. I don't recall that
feature being in Turbo Silver 3.0. There's definitely no such problem in
Imagine. –Rick
Sorry, Scott. There's no crippled demo, just crippled software. Imagine
is being written in a modular format, so every week or so there's a new
version with three or four new features. The AmiExpo version was about
four versions prior to the one I now have. Karl must have some powerful
friends for them to have gleaned a copy from Mike. –Rick
Impulse will be in the Commodore booth at Siggraph. I'll be there, but as
an attendee of the convention, not an Impulse rep. Look forward to meeting
you, Karl. I've used Imagine with a 12mhz machine with no 32 bit RAM and
there's not much of a slowdown. You'll see the difference in the refresh
rate for the wireframe. The manual's going fine. Looks like second week in
August now or just after Siggraph. –Rick
Rick,
Hey, great! I'll finally be able to meet the elusive Mr. Rick. I believe
I have studied your hands working in your video, however, so you won't be a
total stranger.
Yes, I expected the redraw of the wire-frame to be the first place I'd
see the slow-down, since it's the most computation-intensive part of that
screen. I'll admit, I was hoping for Caligari speed, but I think Imagine is
doing more at the same time than Caligari, so comparisons wouldn't be fair.
It'll just be nice to have the perspective AVAILABLE at roughly the same
time as the other three views, if I want it! I was having a little trouble
relating the wire-frame perspective to the other three, but I think it just
takes a little practice. (I caught myself wising for depth-cueing! Too
spoiled by SIGGRAPH.) And I was being booted off the machine, I noticed an
option for hidden-line removal, but didn't get to see what it was applied
to. If this was for the persp. view, that would help, too.
Making some wonderful chrome hood-ornaments by distorting shpere in
multiple,
Karl
Karl, hidden line removal indeed is intended for the perspective view.
–Rick
Rick –
Are Silver owners still going to be notified 30 days (or whatever the
last newsletter said) before the release of Imagine so we can upgrade? If
the second week of August is the current target, then I would think I'd
have gotten the notice by now. Just impatient, that's all 8^). Thanks …
Harry
You've noticed by now not to take any numbers mentioned in Impulse
newsletters too literally ! 🙂 All registered owners will be notified of
the release shortly. However, don't be surprised if this takes a while.
We keep thinking up terrific features that HAVE to be included and it keeps
delaying the damn thing. –Rick
Rick –
Add all you want, the more the better! 8^) Anyway, it's nice to know we
_will_ be notified. I was just curious whether we would still have the
30-day head start. Thanks…
Harry
I have Turbo Silver, but I lost mt manual. If I send you the original disk
can I get the upgrade (when it's released) and get registered? Thanks,
Vicky
Vicky, there's no problem if you send in the original disk. Are you on the
mailing list? you'll know if you received any newsletters recently…
–Rick
I hope I'm on the mailing list. I havn't receved any News Letters lately.
Or is that Just because I shuc a pain…:)
Brad Hayes /EXIT
I haven't registered but I have the card. I just forgot to register and I
don't remember where I bought it or when. Should I send it in without that
filled in?
No I'm not. I took the registration card out and filled it out to send it
in and before I got it in the mailbox I lost it! Pretty stupid I know.
*After* SIGGRAPH? And I was hoping to see it there!
……Betty
Betty, you will definitely see the latest beta of Imagine at Siggraph. In
addition, you'll see the world debut of the Firecracker 24 in all its
1000-plus lines of glory. –Rick
I'll be looking for you, Rick!! I live in the Dallas area, and just
refused to miss SIGGRAPH.
……Betty