#Amiga Laptop?
44 messages in this thread
Anyone out there know anything about whether the Amiga Laptop which I heard
rumored was being developed in Germany is truly being developed? If so, any
rumors about when it might be out? If not, is anybody developing one? I
WANT AN AMIGA LAPTOP!
Donna Bickley
Donna,
I have heard nothing about the Amiga laptop for a very long while. I think
the idea must have died. I know they showed prototypes at a few European
shows, but it never really appeared. I think a LOT of Amiga owners would
like an Amiga laptop!
Betty
Thanks Betty. But sad news. I REALLY want a laptop and don't want to have
to get another format, new programs, etc. Wonder what the holdup is. There
must be enuff of us Amigaites about to justify a laptop on at least a small
scale of production.
Donna
John:
What would probably be a good product would be if comebody came out with a
portable case that an A500 motherboard could be mounted in with a color LCD
screen (or even a B&W one), and room for a floppy, and internal HD. I have
an extra 500 that I don't use at the moment, but if a portable case were to
come out for the 500, I'd buy one real quick!
-Mike Schiller
In sunny Fort Lauderdale
Donna,
There probably are enough Amiga users wanting a laptop to justify "at
least a small scale of production". However, the smaller the scale the
higher the price. Would you be willing to spend $5k+ for a laptop? That's
probably the neighborhood it run.
-sja
"Maybe…" (continued). Maybe if Commodore ever decided to market
_consistently and wholeheartedly what it "shows," you wouldn't have to ask
me that question…WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THEM?!!!!!!!!!!!!
Commodore did not "show" a laptop. A 3rd party company created it, said
they had licensed the technology from CBM, and they were going to market
it. To date, they haven't.
I understand that "Commodore did not 'show' a laptop." I was speaking
generally, Steve. donna
Steve,
Based on the price of Color LCD tech and the fact that production would
never approach Toshiba levels, I'd say a color AMiga Laptop would be about
$8K.
wmc
Wayne,
Ok, I'll take your word for it. I have NO idea, was just guessing. With
such a limited market for an Amiga laptop that price would probably not be
unreasonable. What would be unreasonable would be for people to _pay_ that
price.
Steve – I don't think you were too far off. As I mentioned previously, a
friend was thinking about making a one-off laptop from his Tomcat OS-9
computer.
He had gotten ahold of a sample laptop case which comes with a VGA-style
color LCD screen. The case had an analog RGB connector to the screen, so
hookup is simple. I believe he told me the wholesale price of this
case/LCD thingie was about $2500. Sorry, I can't recall exactly how many
colors it could show (I'll try to find out).
If his price quote was correct, then the main other problem (for the Amiga)
would be the power supply (his computer was mostly CMOS)… and getting the
board small enough to fit.
He's a competitor, so he may not tell me where you can get one of these
cases, tho 🙂 I'd guess that calling around to color LCD laptop makers
in Computer Shopper might net some info. cheers – kev
Steve,
I would not go 5k – 8K for a color Amiga laptop, but I would go 2.5 for a
32 grey scale monochrome.
wmc
I'd go 3-4k for one with a fast CPU and HD. :^)
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Wayne,
I forget most of the details, but recently read an article about a
new type of flat screen device (yes…color) comming out that's as thin as
an LCD screen…but works on the same principle as a CRT (electons and
phosphors)
Unfortunately it was one of those "what's new" type brief articles
in something like Scientific American…and I only quickly read it. My
memory is that it's a series of microscopic elements (pyramid shaped) that
emit electrons to excite a phosphor pixel on the screen. I do recall the
article said they'd be cheap to produce, can be made large sized easily (or
at least easier than an LCD screen) and when they become available…one of
their first uses would be in laptop computer type applications (and small
portable TV's, etc.).
So…quality, inexpensive laptop machines may not be too far off
after all.
Don
Your memory is correct. That is a cold-cathode emission system, which uses
relatively (compared to a "real" crt) low voltages – the trick is, so far
anyway, to get the target phosphor surface to be regular and flat enough,
and NEAR enough to the emittors (the pyrimids) for it all to work. It's
still experimental at this time; and once they "have the bugs out",
estimates are 2-3 years for usable production quantities.
Powerr consumption is well within the region that a portable would require.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
I hope not. I think Ami could make a dent in the Unix laptop market if
they wanted to even at 8K. But a 2.5K laptop for Ados with color would
certainly get my attention!
wmc
Wayne,
I don't think UNIX laptops are going to be big sellers. After all,
UNIX by it's very nature is a multi-user OS and it's hard to get several
folks on a laptop <so to speak>.
For the things laptops are generally used for, a single user OS
with multi-tasking extensions (such as Windows or AmigaDOS) would seem like
the way to go to me.
Don
DOn, There are tow unix laptops out now. I believe they run in the 10K
range. The niche they file is the unix base person who is on the go and
needs to work on the road and/or be able to prepare stuff offline for use
in many locations (unix based systems programmer type serving many clients
not available via netowrk or modem).
Limited to be sure, but needed enough so that two competitors are already
in that arena.
wmc
Wayne,
Yes…I've seen ads for those UNIX laptops. I just don't see a lot
of market for them.
Sure..there will always be someone, somewhere who wants/needs just
about any product you can think of. But as far as a huge market…I doubt
it.
But then..that's why they cost $10k each…limited market == lower
sales == higher cost.
Don
I really don't know what happened. I only know that they showed their
prototype a few times, and then nothing more was heard about it. I've also
been told that the reason Commodore has not made a laptop Amiga is because
they cannot imagine an Amiga without a color screen, and color screens are
terribly expensive, etc. They do have an MS-DOS compatible laptop now, but
I don't think they are even considering an Amiga laptop.
Betty
Betty,
For taking the machine along on a trip, writing software, and
telecomputing, I don't need color. But it SURE would be handy to have an
Amiga (I _hate_ all the telecomm packages on the other machines).
I agree with you, Vic – I was just quoting a Commodore official who once
spoke to our club.
Betty
Boy… I know I would jump at the chance to get an Amiga laptop! I know 16
shades of gray (???) wouldn't look as good as all of the colors we are use
to seeing, but the other benefits definitely out-weigh that minor detail.
Regards,
Allen
Allen,
C'mon, don't give it ALL away – 32 grey shades in high res – no flicker,
please ;^}
wmc
Let Commodore marketing know how you feel. I hear that is the only real
way to get what you want.
Betty
Betty,
Great idea… I will do that, thanks!
Regards,
Allen
Betty-
I seem to recall R.J. Mical (or was it Dale Luck?) claiming to have a
laptop Amiga nearly three years ago. (Fuzzy memory time here,
everybody…) The beast was a one-of-a-kind demo with a mono screen.
————————————————————TL———-
It was someone still working at CATS, but I don't recall who.
Betty
Trevor,
Dale Luck put together his own Amiga portable system several years ago. It
didn't run on batteries, used a small color screen, and cost Dale about
$6-10k to put together (I know it was at least $6000). Someone asked him if
he would custom build them for private (rich 🙂 individuals but I believe
he declined (probably too busy/too much of a support nightmare/etc.).
Marcus Mullins 🙂
Hate to reply to my own message, but… I think Dale Luck said it would
cost about $6k-$10k for someone to put together their own system similar to
his, not that it cost him that much. Just thought I would clarify what I
said 🙂
Marcus Mullins 🙂
And it's just gotten worse… the Commerce Dept recommended today that
Japanese active-matrix LCD screens be hit with a 60%+ duty tax (because US
companies were complaining about dumping).
I'm probably going to get some sort of response to this :-), but here
goes… I am in favor of hitting the Japanese (and any other country for
that matter) with import duties or restrictions IF (BIG if) they are using
unfair trade practices when exporting to the United States. Some business
practices that are legal in Japan are NOT legal in the United States, such
as "price fixing" or "dumping" (two separate issues). MITA also has a
policy that in itself is illegal in the United States and is very much
related to, if not the same as dumping, called Predatory Pricing. That
would be the pricing of merchandise below the cost to produce it, in order
to force a competitor to sell below cost and thereby eventually be removed
from the target market. This is a tricky area of law (from what I
understand; I'm not a lawyer). Not only does it have to be shown that the
accused sold merchandise below cost, but that it does so on a continual
basis and did so with the intent to damage its competitors financially,
etc. etc. MITA executes this policy by funding Japanese companies in
specific "market attacks", so to speak. MITA and any relevant companies it
wishes to enlist purposely target certain markets (semi-conductor memories,
for instance), and agree upon a strategy to take control of that Market
from US competitors (I'm not making this up folks :-(. MITA then provides
large sums of money (sometimes in the billions of YEN) to the Japanese
firms in order that they might "dump" their products without fear of lost
profit. The end result of all this is the eventual domination of a market
through financial bullying. This is EXACTLY what happend to the US
semiconductor memory market. Before MITA became involved, there were 12 US
companies manufacturing semiconductor memories. Afterwards, there were 2,
Micron Technologies and IBM. Well, I feel better after having said that
;-). Sorry about the digression, but its a real sore spot with me.
Marcus – hey no problem! (digression on dumping)
I'm not sure you have to sell below cost to be accused of dumping, tho. I
think in the case of these laptop screens, the Japanese were accused of
selling "below fair market value"… which seems to indicate that the US
companies simply couldn't make or sell them as cheaply.
I'm personally undecided as to whether this is something that has to be
addressed by laws or not. I do remember that Micron tried to gouge
everyone when DRAM was scarce. I'd rather have cheap than expensive any
day 🙂 cheers – kev
I think you mean "MITI", not "Mita", the copier company. Cheap Japanese
computer parts only "hurt" the Japanese companies who sell them for less
than it costs to make them. Why shouldn't US companies be willing to take
the same risk to gain market share? If the US companies can't compete with
the Japanese, doesn't good old American common sense and free market
philosophy reject the notion of protecting our markets by restricting the
Japanese?
The problem John, is that it is a U.S. *company* competing against a
Japanese *keiretsu*, which is a group of powerful companies — more like a
consortium. Their practices (preferential pricing, "old boy" networks,
etc.) are illegal in the U.S. and as a result, very (VERY) few U.S.
companies are large enough to compete one-on-one with the Japanese.
The latest Fortune magazine has a good article (Why the Japanese Keep
Winning) on this subject. It is very enlightening.
The big problem is a difference in philosophy. U.S. philosophy is "play
fair" and "every one has a fair chance" whereas the Japanese philosophy is
"keep Japan economically stable". Personally, I think our system should be
adopted to more along their lines, but with leaniency towards fledgling
companies and new ventures.
One note is that you don't hear about Japanese cities & provinces filing
for bankruptcy ala Maine and Conn!
-Chas
John,
That would be fine…except the Japanese has/had very restrictive
import laws preventing the US companies from selling their chips in Japan.
Thus, the Japanese chip makers sold the chips at a higher price in Japan
(because they had no competition from US Companies) to make up for the
loses they incured in the US market.
Once they dominated the US market…the then raised the prices and
quickly recovered all the loses.
Had those restrictive laws not been in place…the Japanese
companies would have had competition from the US companies both here and in
Japan…and thus no "home" profits to fall back on…thus they wouldn't
have been able to sell below cost…cuz they'd have to have sold below cost
in both markets and then would have cut their own throats as they tried to
cut the US companies throats.
So turn around was fair play…we put in some restrictive laws of
our own. Unfotunately…it was too late.
Don
Marcus,
the fundamental question is whether MITI, and Japanese industry in
general, is engaged in unfair business practices. Judging just from the
aspect of our agricultral policy, no. The same applies to the agricultral
policies of the EC countries. Perhaps we should look at the transportation
sectors, or banking, etc.
The list is almost endless. Intervention by the government in the
private sector is all to common and market distortions are the result.
Sure, we can try to paint the Japanese gultier than we are, but it just
ain't so (to use the vernacular). All sides are guilty, from their rice,
or chip, policy to our agricultural policies. Ever wonder how cheap milk
products would be without price supports? Or how about why we need to cut
special deals with the Soviet Union to have them buy our grain?
I don't want to even get into the situation with respect to information
services. IMAO, free trade is still a myth looking for a place to happen.
You have your response <grin>. I'm looking forward to mine <running and
ducking!>.
Brian J. Bartlett
I tend to agree with you about the Japanese. My brother heard a
Japanese businessman calling the Americans "cry babies" because "they can't
compete." My understanding, and someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, is
that the Americans are EXTREMELY limited to what we can import into Japan.
I have heard we can not import beef (which Japan "must" kill whales) or
wood products. Japan can flood the earth with electronic stuff make with
near slave labor, fine. We can feed the world. I wish some maverick
American company would come up with a well built/engineered VCR made
completely in the USA. Heck, I'd start up the company myself if I had any
money and knew what I was doing! <g>
I want one too!!!
Ya know, all those talented folks could probably pput one together from a
Novia HD, A500 motherboard/keyboard. Just need to solve the Color LCD
amiga compatible display driver problem!
wmc
Well, Wayne, why don't YOU do it? donna
I'm an MS-CS, not EE. And right now I'm tied up to the tune of 50+ hours
per week on an avionics software program that keeps my on VAXs, DSO MAGIC
Vs (MIL-STD 1750 dual processor jobs) and PeeCees (yeech!!)
wmc
Actually, I don't think we do. A B&W greyscale LCD would work just fine, as
the AMiga can be configured to use greyscal easily… I'd buy a greyscale
unit in a New York Centon.
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S
Ben,
I thought Montana Centons were shorter. Didn't you mention that's one
of the reasons you moved there? Something about "More Centons per year in
Montana, boy, that's wha' I like about it." …. or maybe it was 'less
people' or 'fresh air' or '_clean_ air' or….
Actually, if you want to know what I like about Montana, just think about
Florida – whatever's different here, I like. :^) Traffic, population,
environment, cleanliness, freindliness, country, honesty, cost of
living/housing/land, humidity, speeding tickets… You get the idea. :^)
Ben
Amateur Radio Callsign is A A 7 A S