#very poor support
10 messages in this thread
John,
I don't know where you ever got the idea I was complaining about Gary's
participation on the forum. He was the one and only reason I didn't put it in
a box and return it for not working as advertised. When I first bought
3DStudio it was primarily for rendering architectural models, and the program
would not import even the simplest .dxf files, despite their advertising. Now
I hope you are not telling me that you believe software companies should be
able to publish advertising, claiming features that do not work, and then once
you buy the product, claim they have no responsibility to own up to anything.
Then when you go back to the magazine that published this erroneous
information, they contact Autodesk, and lie to the editor about contacting you
to remedy the situation, and continue to give you the ever-famous Autodesk
phone system shuffle, and continue to ignore and not return phone calls. Now
if this is the kind of treatment we should all expect to become accustomed to
just cuz times were tough when I was a young'un, give me a break.
The corporation had certain responsibilities to supply what it promised. That's
only simple contract law. Autodesk seems to be under the mistaken belief that
its customers are its dealers, not its users, and the dealers don't want
end-users to go around them. So there is no support, other than if you're
lucky enough to have one of the exceptions to the norm, a dealer that's truly
interested in understanding 3DStudio, and not in just pushing boxes. Granted I
don't believe Autodesk has any responsibility in teaching people how to make a
pretty sunset, but as far as a responsibility to make the program operate as
advertised, i.e. drivers, features, etc., Autodesk does have a responsibility.
And to ignore that is indefensible.
Roger D.
P.S. I don't want anyone to get the wrong understanding. First of all, I do
not need a new dealer. Second, I do appreciate Gary and Jack's help and
participation (great docs, btw, Jack), as well as help from people like Martin,
Greg, and far too many to list in one message. I do like and enjoy the
software, and get particular pleasure out of being paid to model geometry for
Lightwave users.<g> I've just got a very bad taste in my mouth from how some
of the corporate types at Autodesk seem to feel they can treat their customers.
Roger – I don't believe I intimated that you were complaining about Gary's
being on the forum, merely how fortunate we are that he is. As to being able to
import models, I do remember that there were problems with some dxf formats but
I also remember that they worked very quickly to resolve the problem.
I don't believe the kind of treatment you tell me you experienced is
acceptable, and that is not what I was referring to. I do believe in truth in
advertising and I do believe companys should be accountable for their actions.
You vote with your money. If you don't like the product you take it back.
Obviously more people felt good about the support they recieved than you did.
If you had taken it back it would IMHO been a mistake because you would not
have found a product for less than twice the price to do what you wanted. You
are apparently getting a fair amount of support from your dealer and members on
the forum, and I'm glad to hear it. 🙂 -JE
Roger,
Hi, I work for an authorized Autodesk multimedia dealer near Seattle,
Wa. I just wanted to comment on a couple of things:
You are not limited to the dealer you first bought your 3D Studio
from. I bought mine (long ago!) from another dealer. I was disatisfied with
the support, called Autodesk for a dealer listing and recieved other dealer
names. I upgraded to 2.0 from the new dealer, used the new 90 days of free
support to get up and running. I graduated about that time, and now work for
the dealer.
I'm always interested to hear what dissatisfied people would rather
have in the place of dealers. Do you not agree that Microsoft is an anomaly in
its ability to afford huge numbers of support "engineers"? If 3D Studio were
available in Egghead, a large portion of them would be returned because 3DS is
a complex tool that requires a knowledge investment to setup/tech/use, that's
not what Egghead is about. Idealy, a 3DS sale would include full support for a
long time. That is exactly how we used to sell it, and that's how Autodesk
would love to see it sold. However, then reality and the market step in.
People vote with their pocketbook. No one likes to admit "I will need help in
setting up and using this product. So, the price wars start.
Now no one except the rogue salesmen (not dealers) are happy.
I don't want to open an old can of worms, but you've touched on another
hot subject: Advertising.
Basically, the cheaper the product, the more outlandish the claims. We
have people in all the time for demos who bring some ad copy for some $400
product and attempt to judge 3DS vs. their interpretation (sp?) of what the ad
is claiming.
However, I must agree with you again on the subject of DXF import.
The importation ability of 2.0 is much better than 1.0. But average Autocad
file sizes have jumped from 1 meg being large, to 5-8 meg being the average
size, far larger than predicted, I would guess.
What part of the country are you from?
Don
Don,
<<What part of the country are you from?>>
the Midwest–Wisconsin–Any particular reason you ask?
There are a couple of suggestions I could make. One–if the program's going to
be handed out to magazines to evaluate, in order to be truly fair, the
evaluator should have to try to find a competent dealer for support for
installation and evaluation–not some special ace in the hole, or special
secret phone numbers, but should be forced to run the gauntlet. Another is
that Autodesk and its dealers should look at the absurdity of their fully
supporting their $600 2D CAD package, and not supporting their $3000 rendering
animation package.
Actually, what really burns me happened 2 years ago. If they just would have
returned the phone call, admitted from the beginning that there was a problem,
apologized for any inconvenience, things could have been different. But
instead they stonewalled and ignored, and now they've got a customer with a
really sensitive hot button. But then again, look what's going on with Corel
4. I guess I should try to have some perspective.
Roger D.
Roger…..
<<< P.S. I don't want anyone to get the wrong understanding. First of all, I
do not need a new dealer. >>>
I'm curious Roger…Just who is you dealer…Master Blue Print?
James.
James,
Who's my dealer? James Murphy Consulting–no, not really <big-g>. Is this the
part where I'm supposed to coincidentally denigrate one of your competitors?
My dealer supports me very well considering the revenue return on their
investment, and the percentage 3DStudio plays in their overall business.
Roger D.
<< Is this the part where I'm supposed to coincidentally denigrate one of your
competitors >>
They do a pretty good job of that all by themselves…but if it'll make you
feel better…go ahead! <g>
<< considering the revenue return on their investment >>
What are you saying here….You wouldn't be aluding to their possible amount of
time spent "supporting" the product in your particular case now..would you? <BG
R & D>
James.
Oh, James, they can't be that bad. The way I understand it you wanted to work
there for a while.<g> It isn't other Autodesk dealers that would get under my
skin if I were you. I was brought in by a builder to help them figure out just
what they should be buying for their CAD and visualization needs for a new
subdivision. Right now they're drafting totally with pencil. They wanted me
to go with them to help them evaluate what Intergraph was trying to tell them.
Talking about somebody who's absolutely vicious toward Autodesk, they had a
little fact sheet with more inaccuracies than I've -ever- seen out of Autodesk.
Something about 3DStudio was developed by an Atari game development group and
was to be considered "not particularly speedy." If not for the fact that their
PC/Windows Cad package didn't have the added power of plug-in modules like ASG
Architectural or AutoArchitect, they'd really have something. A built in
materials editor, and a lot of extras right in the CAD package. It seemed,
though, to get the real use out of a computer, you had to use the programs and
modules available only in the upper stations. But they're trying real, real
hard. Wish I had more time to get into their animation package. The first
thing I can say is that it was deaddog slow. The final renderings were pretty
outstanding though. But that's both ends of ray tracing.
Roger D.
ROGER!
How the H..l are ya'!
<< The way I understand it you wanted to
work there for a while.<g>>>>
Actually I "interviewed" thats a far cry from wanting to work someplace, I go
to medical conventions for BioFeedBack too.
That doesn't mean I want to be a theripist. BTW It took me about 3 min. to
actually get to know the Owner well enough to like him and about 10 seconds to
figure out the Appleton Store Manager felt I was a threat…Hence _I_
Terminated the interview by explaining the obvious. "That we probably wouldn't
work very well together." Besides…..
I have a very bad taste for people that misrepresent themselves or their
positions and in particular misrepresent "Job descriptions". But I think we had
this conversation once before.
HEY!… I like Greg Plummer just fine.. he's a great guy.. I do think he's
overworked and a bit stressed out..probably should take some time off..but I
was in the same position a couple of years ago. ( Actually I _was_ a bit of a
raving maniac…Hmmmmm..raving… Now that I think about it I think David
reminds me a little of myself at that point in time.<BG R&D>
Sometimes Ya just gotta walk away from it. If it comes back to you. Its true
love.<g>
Regarding AutoDesk Dealers….I used to be one for 5 years…I
understand…beleive me…I understand…However that doesn't mean I'm gonna
lay down for anybody. If your Fair, Honest, and Up-Front in your dealings with
me as well as with your clients..I'm your best Freind..If you lie to your
clients or double cross me in a deal..I'm not gonna let it pass. In fact I am
a firm beleiver in what comes around goes around. Keep Screwing people in
business and you'll be looking for a new profession "Real Soon" Usually within
18 Months tops. I've seen this pattern in the Electronics Industry and the
people that think there getting to the top by screwing their buddies usually
get the same treatment within their own community within a year or so. The
Beauty of it is I don't even have to do anything. They usually end up double
crossing themselves in the long run. I love It. Ain't Christianity Great!
Regarding the InterGraph system you saw….that wasn't the 20,000 dollar deal
with the Magic "Ball" Mouse system rendering and animation package was it?
Great hearing from you again Roger now that I think about it I'm gonna have to
be nicer to you Milwaukee folks or your gonna think I don't like Socialist
Mayorial Cities or somethin'.<g>
LaTER.
James.
James,
Maybe we should take this over to Take 5. See Parade and Intergraph.
Roger D.