#SCSI-II for 4000?
23 messages in this thread
I've been very happy with my 4000 since I bought it, save for the IDE
drive. It's fast enough I haven't been hampered by it, but I'd really
like to start using SCSI devices like CDROM, backup drives, etc. Problem
is that money is tight. I think GVP sells an adapter for about $169, but
it isn't SCSI-II. I don't need tons of RAM, accelerators, etc. attached to
it. I simply want the cheapest, reliable SCSI-II adapter I can get that
will tolerate my soldered-in Buster chip.
Any suggestions?
Karl
Tolerate your busted buster? You need the Fastlane … it ain't cheap.
Ask about it over in Advanced Systems section in AmigaVend.
-sja
Why go SCSI-II? Unless you have a very fast SCSI-II hard drive you won't
notice that much difference between SCSI-I and SCSI-II. Most of the hard
drives yet haven't caught up with the faster SCSI-II controllers, expect
for a few like the SeaGate Barracuda.
// John – (TechnoJunkie at heart)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
You need SCSI-II or SCSI-II Fast? Why do you think you need SCSI-II?
A used A2091 with 7.0 ROMs would run you less than $50. Unless you have
some kick-butt fast drives, it'll do fine. Especially if you are just
using it for CD-ROM and backup.
A FastLane could work with your Busted Buster, but it runs significantly
less fast than with the -11 Buster, so it hardly seems worth the premium
price unless you plan to upgrade your motherboard eventually.
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
"Are you f'ing crazy?" "No, I'm just marking my territory." – Wolf
Dale, thanks for the reply. You raise valid points. While I knew that I
would need faster HDs to make use of the SCSI-II controller, I was under
the impression that these weren't that much more expensive. I also didn't
know that there was a SCSI-II and a SCSI-II Fast. No one has yet told my
how much the Fastlane runs, though "expensive" is the most common term. (I
haven't yet gone off and asked the folks in Vendor, however.)
I was under the impression that the A2091 with 7.0 ROMs wouldn't work
with the soldered-in Buster. Wrong? This may indeed be the best
solution.
I was simply operating under the conception that I had finally reached
the pinnacle of the Amiga line with the 4000 and didn't want to compromise
it (more than the use of IDE in the first place), but if there truly isn't
that much difference in speed between SCSI-II with a fast drive, and
regular SCSI, then maybe I'm indeed on the wrong track.
Karl
Karl: Although Dale might like the 2091, I don't think I would use it with
your 4000. I did for awhile and hated it, too much trouble getting it to
work properly. I think you would be better off getting something like the
GVP 4008 controller. I believe you can pick them up for around $150 mail
order and its a much better controller than the 2091, at least with
working with the 4000. In fact, I have one here sitting around collecting
dust after my WarpEngine was installed. If you are interested, let me know
via Email and we can work out a price.
// John – (TechnoJunkie at heart)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
Don't know about you, but the 2091 works perfectly in my 4000. I use it
for a CDROM and previously a Syquest.
-sja
Yep, the 2091 will work, and using it for a slower SyQuest or CDROM would
be just fine. But for a faster hard drive, the max I could push the 2091
to was about 385KB/sec using Mapboard, not exactly a speed demon. The GVP
Series-II controller on the 4000 was over 1MB/sec.
// John – (TechnoJunkie at heart)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
Which ROMs did you have on the 2091?
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
"Are you f'ing crazy?" "No, I'm just marking my territory." – Wolf
"Which ROMs did you have on the 2091?"
7.0, the latest and greatest, at least at that time.
// John – (TechnoJunkie at heart)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
Dale –
> Which ROMs did you have on the 2091?
Which ROMs SHOULD one have, and how much of a difference does it make?
Without opening the box, the various system information programs report a
"2nd.scsi.device" version of 6.6
. . . . JimDoc, on AutoPilot
6.6 is reasonbly current — 7.0 is the last released. It may not matter
(I may have been thinking of something else).
Dale L. Larson Intangible Assets Manufacturing (info@iam.com)
"That's the best part about being crazy. You see things no one else can see."
John,
Unfortunately I no longer have the Syquest so I can't check the speed.
But, using MapRom and going from memory that may be faulty, the Syquest
was just as fast on the 2091 v7.0 rom/4000 combo as it was on my 3000.
-sja
John –
> The GVP Series-II controller on the 4000 was…
Did you have any compatibility problems with other boards in the 4000 at
the same time as the GVP Series-II controller?
. . . . JimDoc, on AutoPilot
The only board that I seemed to have an incompatability with the Series-II
controller was my Vortex bridgeboard. Then it was just a matter of
swapping the boards slot positions to correct it.
// John – (TechnoJunkie at heart)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
John –
> it was just a matter of swapping the boards slot positions…
This seems to be the most-repeated advice: swap slots.
Do you have any idea WHY this should make a difference?
(Also, with hardcards in a 4000 there often isn't a lot of options for
swapping. The size of the drive may prevent it from going in the top
slot, the clearance beneath it may be too little for the bottom slot, and
in the middle two slots another board cannot fit in the next slot above
it.)
. . . . JimDoc, on AutoPilot
Jim: I don't know the technical details of why some boards conflict, but
I've seen it more than once to know it's more than mere coincidence. You
are correct in the limited number of options in swapping boards if you
have a hardcard. One thing you might consider is moving the drive off the
card, and put it below or above the 4000's IDE. This would help save slot
space, as well as letting you swap cards if need be.
// John – (TechnoJunkie at heart)
\X/ Mercury@ins.infonet.net
John –
> moving the drive off the card, and put it below or above the 4000's IDE
As you know, the A4000 has one 5?" slot (over the floppy) and four 3?"
slots (including the floppy). I only recently discovered that you can
install all four 3?" devices ONLY if they are all 1" high. Since the
floppy is about 1?" high, I cannot install another 3?" drive in front.
However, the IDE drive is 1", so there's room for another drive there, and
there is the 5?" slot.
Well, all the hard drives I presently have available are 1?" high (so they
can't go in the slot adjacent to the IDE, and still allow me to put the
cover on; and I want to save the 5?" slot for a CR-ROM, or maybe a Syquest
or MO drive.
**SIGH**
. . . . JimDoc, on AutoPilot
John,
Thanks for your reply on AmigaTech. I take it the WarpEngine is a
significant upgrade to your previous GVP board. Is it part accelerator
or something? I've lost track this past year, with job and house
changes. I used to be in here all the time!
I would indeed be interested in your dusty GVP board, though I'm pretty
unfamiliar with it. With the 2000, I was used to just drop-in, no-hassle
SCSI. Would I be back in that glorious, non-IDE world? My immediate
interests are a more convenient CDROM solution than CDTV and Parnet to the
4000, and a backup device I picked up last summer. In the coming months,
an additional hard-drive would be nice. The 120IDE is OK, but it seems to
keep filling up.
Karl
I think the FastLane is on the order of $500.
The Busted Buster is responsible for breaking ZIII DMA. ZII DMA isn't
affected to the best of my knowledge.
SCSI-II is in almost no meaningful sense any better than SCSI-I. SCSI-II
Fast has a theoretical maximum speed which is twice as fast as SCSI-I, but
few drives push the slower maximum (except on cache).
If you plan to buy a 1gig drive someday and plan to upgrade to a fixed
Buster someday, the FastLane might be a good investment for you (so might
a Warp board). IMHO, using the FastLane and Busted Buster is kinda silly.
By the time you whack off 20% of your performance, you should either
spend the extra money to fix Buster or save a lot of money by getting a
cheaper controller.
If you are running on a lower budget, you might not subjectively notice
the speed difference with the cheap controller, and you could always
upgrade controllers later.
Dale L. Larson, Intangible Assets Manufacturing
"Are you f'ing crazy?" "No, I'm just marking my territory." – Wolf
Dale,
Thanks for you input. These are the kinds of replies I was hoping for.
One factor I had considered, but know of no current way to accomplish is
to get the Buster fixed. Do you know of any?
The Warp board is what?
Karl
There are two ways you can get the Buster fixed. One is a motherboard
swap. That is apparently not possible at this time. The other is to
surgically remove your surface mount Buster and replace it with a socketed
-11 Buster.
Most Amiga techs don't have the proper skills or equipment to perform that
mod, and it is a little risky even then. It is, of course, not covered
under warranty or anything, so it is probably not a real option.
I am kinda suprised, however, that given the number of motherboards which
have been swapped out, no one has tried replacing the busters with sockets
and then swapping the modded boards for -09 buster boards.
Dale L. Larson Intangible Assets Manufacturing
(info@iam.com)
"That's the best part about being crazy. You see things no one else can see."
Yes, as an electronic engineer, I'd be willing to take a crack at
socketing the Buster (since I've waited in vain for my dealer to get in a
replacement motherboard), but I'm a little hesitant to do that to my
"baby". I've never worked with surface mount, and I'm not interested in
learning on my 4000. But, you're right: I wonder why SOMEone hasn't done
that to all those acres of early motherboards!
Karl