CompuServe Thread

#3DS->2->HARDCOPY

24 messages in this thread
#111414From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 6, 1994 5:32 AM
Greetings 3DS->2->Hardcopy experts I have three easy questions Question1. Is there a formula or some guideline for outputing to hardcopy? (ie: what resolution and color deepth should you render at for say A4 paper output ? I client needs to have A1 size rendering to hang on the wall of his office..) Are we talking 6000x4000x at 24 bit? Question2. If I save this image as a large TGA will the resultant file automatically be 24bit or do I have to load and use DSPADI RDPADI & RCPADI drivers to have the file 24bit. Or are these drivers only for viewing in 24bit mode on a particular video card. Question3. The same client wants specific colors in the above rendering Is there a convertion from Pantone to RGB values. In this way his can give me a "Warm Blue pantone 24" and this equates to R=?? G=?? B=?? in the materials editor (forget gamma for a moment)?? ThanX in advance guys GH in OZ
#111456From: Brian Rudolph [Adesk]Jul 6, 1994 10:41 AM
<<what resolution and color deepth>> This really depends on your output device. Most poster size or display size renderings wind up being rendered at around 2Kx2K or 4Kx4K. Of course, this might change if your output device has specific requirements. And yes, always 24 bit color. << or do I have to load and use DSPADI RDPADI & RCPADI drivers to have the file 24bit. >> No, you don't need to load the drivers, in fact many of the drivers restrict the maximum resolution possible to that which is capable of being displayed. When rendering to high resolutions like 4Kx4K you will set up your rendering display for a NULL driver and render to a file. <<The same client wants specific colors in the above rendering Is there a convertion from Pantone to RGB values… in the materials editor >>> There is a conversion (somewhere) from RGB values to Pantone colors, but remember, setting up an RGB value in the materials editor for a material does not nessesarily give you that color on your rendered object. 3DS will assign that color to the object, but the actual rendered color will change depending on your lighting conditions. -Brian
#111499From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 6, 1994 4:27 PM
ThanX for the reply Brian, I'll probably have to go to a bureau service and try to keep away form the dreaded "Out of Ram" message for a 2Kx2Kx24bit image…anyway 3DS should start swapping if (when) it runs out of ram anyway.. I haven't even addressed the transportation of the file yet…<g> Thank you—gh
#111637From: Shaun BrachmannJul 7, 1994 9:12 AM
just caught your thread. to avoid the dreaded "out of ram" messages on huge plot/prints I use RenderPrint (from Insight Development). It works with most of the standard image formats and outputs to most every printer/plotter around. We use it to send huge .tga files to an hp650c, with great results. for the small price of renderprint (2-1/2 franklins) it really does a nice job. of course, you need the output device… see ya
#111702From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 7, 1994 4:26 PM
Hi Shaun, Funny, I was just reading about RenderPrint (from Insight Development) in Computer Graphic World last nite……can you send contact info about (ie; ph, fax, etc) the article just gives you of those reader feedbacks….thanX for the tip. CU GH in OZ
#111500From: Marc AlexanderJul 6, 1994 4:27 PM
Hardcopy output. Q1: A1 Hardcopy will require a VERY big file if you want it to look any good! Not exactly a formula, but here is my guess at the resolutions for printing at 300dpi mm pixels Paper x y Width Height A4 210 297 2550 3300 A3 297 420 3300 5100 A2 420 594 5100 6600 A1 594 840 6600 10200 Colour laser output should look pretty good, but I don't know if it can be done at A1 size. If you don't have to worry about the size of the output file then render it at as many colours as you can…the more the merrier! However, if the output must be done at a bureau or even on a machine not connected to yours directly then I would recommend you give up <g>. If you can, find a bureau with 3DS and have them render your project file/mesh/ there. That way the problem is theirs until the job is done! Q2: The file should print at truecolour regardless of the display capabilities of the machine it is sitting on. ( I think! ) Q3: Apart from using your eyes and taking a close guess from a Pantone swatch, there is a more accurate way of converting from Pantone to RGB. Coreldraw 3.0 will do the job quite nicely. Just draw any object and select the 'uniform fill' dialog, choose 'edit' and make sure the 'SPOT COLOUR' palette is the active one. Select the Pantone colour you need to use. From there switch to 'PROCESS COLOUR' and choose the 'RGB' model. This will automatically give you a fairly accurate conversion. The only work you have to do is convert Coreldraw's scale of 1-99 for each channel to 3DS' 0-255 scale. Gamma? what's that then? <g> Hope this isn't too long-winded and that it works for you! Accuracy in any of the above cannot be guaranteed ! This is my first message to anyone on CServe, y'know! Awra best! MA in SCOT
#111603From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 7, 1994 7:29 AM
ThanX Marc, That is spot <g> on or is that "pantone on"…. great reply CU GH
#111784From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 8, 1994 3:10 AM
Yes I know I'm replying to myself…. My 486-DX-2-66-16Mb-1.2Gig HD is know working it's little CPU out rendering some large 4K x 5K TGA file (should finish some time this weekend or Monday etc)…I then need to add text to this mother.. Marc, (or anyone) can CorelDraw handle files this size or do you need something like Hi Res QF/X…and is the finished files (probably 15-25Mb) with the new text, logo's etc …When I resave it with it be the same out-of-hand res (4k x 5k TGA)???????…Any input would be great….maybe I'll leave it to the B'Service
#111793From: krazy imagesJul 8, 1994 7:10 AM
CorelDRAW is a vector drawing package, not a paint program. The bundle comes with a paint pack, but is not recommendable. Instead, try Photostyler 2.0 or Photoshop 3.0 (coming soon for Windows NT). We work here with styler at the resolutions you need (of course, get 192MBs for optimun performance 🙂 We are about to get PhotoShop 3.0 for the PowerMacintosh, but the NT version will give you the same results in a Pentium 90MHz computer. ana /krazy images
#111900From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 8, 1994 10:31 PM
I realise CorelDraw is Vector (object) based, but you can stiil import TGA's add text, logos and export the lot as a TGA…I just don't know about the outputed files res…by the way the file is 4400x6100x24bit and 89Mb….<g>…I just don't know if these prog can handles 89Mb files…poor old windows < I wonder how my swap file will handlke this little project> …. ThanX for the comments GH
#111917From: krazy imagesJul 9, 1994 7:27 AM
Oh, I see 🙂 Then Corel could do the work for you (althought I prefer Illustrator for the PowerMac <g>) ana /krazy images
#111952From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 9, 1994 3:42 PM
Either way I go, it will be a time consuming exercise…export the edited file as TGA or export the file as CDR….I've just to find a B'Service which handle 89Mb file to A1 size…hope I don't need to pan around too much <g> find out Monday!
#111833From: CSA/CAJul 8, 1994 1:52 PM
Garry, Yes, you can import the image as a background or rectangle in Corel Draw & add vector text on top of it. The saved .CDR file, though, contains the full-size referenced image. If the service bureau folks are reliable, you might just instruct them in adding the text & print directly. Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
#111901From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 8, 1994 10:35 PM
Hi Kevin, Instead of saving the whole image (with new text) as a CDR (native CorelDraw format) have you tried to export as a new (edited) TGA…By the way I 'm now the proud owner of a uncompressed 89Mb 24 bit Targa …uncompressed cos' the B' Service think that will give them the least grief….Thanx for the input PS I need a wheel borrow full of disk now <g> GH
#112171From: CSA/CAJul 11, 1994 11:54 AM
Garry, No, I haven't tried the export to .TGA, as Corel Draw is usually a final step before printing for us, and we have plenty of printers in-house. I'm not aware of any reason for a problem in that area though. Kevin Krell – Computer Support Associates
#112431From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 12, 1994 1:15 PM
Hi Kevin, (meanwhile further down the track) CorelDraw cannot handle images like 90Mb (400dpi) TGA's it appears to fall over (maybe windows swap file has a heart attack). I'm currently dropping the rez to something more managable (ie 25Mb – 300dpi)……I'm outputing to a Cannon CLC 500 continuous tone colour laser…although GAMMA is a problem…the client wants the print colors to closely match those on the screen….and you know what type of grief that can cause….I'm even considering taking a photo (real camera) of the screen……<sigh>…CU GH
#112510From: John TissavaryJul 12, 1994 7:33 PM
I think you would really benefit from using a pachage like Photoshop or Photostyler. These are made just for what you are trying to do: handle large images for print, and match colors. Photostyler has the Kodak ColorMatch System built into it, where you use monitor, input, and output device configuration files from manufacturers that adhere to the Kodak sytem (a real standard, BTW), to get the best color match possible. I think Ana could give you some real advice here, as I'm not print expert. Also, if you need color trapping or special color correction, there are service companies that specialize in _just_ that. John Tissavary (LUNA cie)
#113198From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 16, 1994 3:08 AM
Hi John, Yeh I suppose it time to get a good 24bit photo retouching, editing package…Photoshop or Photostyler…humm..I'm not a windows fan – may be Hi Res Q F/x (though colormatch sounds useful)…looks like it's off to the dealers – <g> ThX for info The printing job is being handled by the B'Service…I'm waiting to see the color job they do! Have fun at Siggraph CU GH
#112534From: krazy imagesJul 12, 1994 8:42 PM
You should try Photostyler then. Version 2 comes with KPCMS, a precision color system for accurate color matching. Precision Transform files (a description file for your input/display/output device) for the CLC500 are available from Kodak (same as for Fiery systems). It is one of the most accurate and cheap of the color matching methods out there. A calibration probe with a good display system could help to find the hyperaccurate color you are looking for (if you want to spend money, you can get whatever you want from your system). ana /krazy images
#112553From: ROBERT RITGERJul 12, 1994 9:47 PM
I need your opinion on output devices. We currently do about 5000 8.5"x11" color copies per month. I've investigated flexible systems to migrate the whole company to a computer based layout system in lieu of the predominately paste-up system in place. (Talk about teaching old dogs new tricks!!) We will still need color copies but I calculate that 90% of our output will migrate to becoming all digital. The Fiery system is a natural but there is a lot of concern that the final output is not good enough and that it has a lot of trouble with printing greens. Personally, I have not experienced unacceptable output except when using the Canon as a color copier. Are there other systems, printers, etc. which could turn out both 8.5" x 11" and 11" x 17" color prints with near photographic quality and could turn out 100 – 200 prints a day? A dye-sub will be too expensive and too slow. Thanks for your thoughts.
#112718From: krazy imagesJul 13, 1994 2:34 PM
To be honest, I don't know too much about "short-run" printing. We used once a Fiery system for a 150 run, but that's all. Most of our work goes to magazines (as separated EPS files into Quark), and some of it to Iris (for large prints). As you know, we use the ColorEase for proofing and final prints for our clients (who maybe need 10 or 20 highquality copies). But like you say, dyesub printing is too slow -althought not that expensive- (certainly, 100 copies a day is too much -in 6 months using the Ease we only have printed about 800 pages). Anyway, most people I know use Canon engines for the kind of work you are looking for. You should look for an old Publish issue dedicated to short run printing. Since I am not in Miami, I can't point you direct to the source, but with a little research you will find that issue. Sorry for being of so little help 🙁
#112775From: krazy imagesJul 13, 1994 7:12 PM
Bob, To be honest, I don't know too much about "short-run" printing. We used once a Fiery system for a 150 run, but that's all. Most of our work goes to magazines (as separated EPS files into Quark), and some of it to Iris (for large prints). As you know, we use the ColorEase for proofing and final prints for our clients (who maybe need 10 or 20 highquality copies). But like you say, dyesub printing is too slow -althought not that expensive- (certainly, 100 copies a day is too much -in 6 months using the Ease we only have printed about 800 pages). Anyway, most people I know use Canon engines for the kind of work you are looking for. You should look for an old Publish issue dedicated to short run printing. Since I am not in Miami, I can't point you direct to the source, but with a little research you will find that issue. Sorry for being of so little help 🙁 ana /krazy images
#113199From: GARRY HARGREAVESJul 16, 1994 3:08 AM
Yeh, it looks like Photostyler…I hope it can handle plenty of plug in effects…HSC Kai Power tools, gallary effects and works with fractal painter etc….thX for the help -Ana…..there goes the Visa card again!
#113203From: John TissavaryJul 16, 1994 5:17 AM
Photostyler will handle any photoshop plug-ins. BTW, did you know Adobe (Photoshop) recently merged with Aldus (Photostyler)? John Tissavary (LUNA cie)