CompuServe Thread

Fractal Painter

18 messages in this thread
#75506From: Mike KelleyJan 11, 1994 10:47 AM
>I will get Painter plus a Wacom with my eyes closed. Not Shop. Not Styler. No >Composer. Thanks, Ana, I kind of suspected this kind of reply (was looking for it, in fact) and I appreciate it. It looks like I have to have Painter/X2 — if nothing more, because I will always wonder what wonderful things I might have done without it. However, now I have one final question, based upon the above. Wacom — can you step back and try to remove your artistic skills and eyes and let me know if you think a non-artist would benefit from it? Assuming that that only program I would use it with would be Painter/X2, that I already have a serial mouse with no other ports available, am I even going to be able to hook up the Wacom? (I know, that's a hardware question that someone else might be able to answer — I'd be willing to put a hardware switch on the serial port if that will work). The bottom line for you (and anyone else who might have some feedback): Is it worth the several hundreds of dollars for a tablet for someone who can't really draw (I won't say a straight line — "Drawing on the Right Side" taught me that even an artist can't draw a straight line without help). If it even helps slightly then it might be worth it to me.
#75696From: John TissavaryJan 11, 1994 11:57 PM
I threw all my mice in the trash when I got my XGT. I would recommend the XGT over the WACOM. It is a sturdier tablet, and difference in feel is as much a matter of taste and habit as anything else. I don't understand why anyone would use a mouse as an input device if they have a tablet with much greater accuracy, resolution, no stupid balls to get stuck (I've ruined a couple of mice throwing them against the wall after they froze up on a REALLY important line in a drawing or model), greater wrist comfort, pressure sensitivity, etc…. The Kurta XGT is wireless, so I've got a pressure sensetive pen and a puck always ready to go. I use the pen for painting and some 3DS functions, and the puck for ACAD and most mouse-like operations. Mice really suck. I can't even aim the damned things any more because I'm used to moveing the cursor around consistently to the same place with the same wrist motion and you need a precision input device for something like that, and mice ain't persisiun <g>. John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
#75765From: Mike KelleyJan 12, 1994 10:56 AM
Thanks, John, for the input. Can I ask what model XGT you have or recommend? And would hooking such a device up to a switchbox (since I don't have any more serial ports available) with my mouse be practicable, or do I have to have the mouse active at the same time?
#75944From: John TissavaryJan 13, 1994 1:51 AM
Kurta makes a wide range of tablets, one of which is the XGT. Mine is a 12×12 with pressure sensetive stylus and 4 button puck. The emulations (Summa, Wacom) are FLAWLESS so far, and the mouse driver has never done any wrong. I bought the tablet for $695 with fractal and the pen bundled, but that was a Siggraph special. I'm sure you can get a deal for close to that, though. I'm not sure if you got my last anti-mouse rampage message, but I wouldn't hook a mouse up to my system if you paid me. I hate mice almost as much as I hate the 640K ceiling in MS-DOS (and that's a lot). I have found NO reasons to use a mouse since acquiring my XGT tablet.
#76027From: Mike KelleyJan 13, 1994 10:47 AM
Thanks to you (and Ana and David) for responding — I'm going to shop around now and just find what bundle/tablet is available. But at least I'm convinced that Fractal and a tablet are the way to go, and that's what I needed to know.
#75729From: krazy imagesJan 12, 1994 3:40 AM
You could use any Photoshop or Photostyler compatible filters with Painter, so you have Aldus, Adobe and KAI plug ins to choose from (a batch-like feature will be available in X3). It have a pretty good number of spectacular and dramatic effects by itself and more than the basic general image manipulation tools (from brightness and contrast adjustment to any other image adjustment –all within the RGB, CMYK or NTSC fields). X2 will let you have all the Altamira capabilities and more, so you have object oriented image manipulation with infinite alpha channels, portfolio libraries, object listing with subordination and grouping (here is a neverending list 🙂 … You have session playback capabilities, which let you use any series of general retouching and/or fine painting, record them, and playback in each of the desired images. Furthermore, you can increase resolution with any replay, so you can save a lot of precious memory and time (i.e. Get a low resolution image from 3ds… want to add neat effects, clone, draw, whatever… do it. Then render at high resoultion -say for a dye sub print- change the resolution and replay the session with the new res settings. Voila! Instant automatic superspeed replay). More? The cloning. Probably one of the most powerful Painter (well, all of them are powerfull 🙂 features. You may not be an artist, but the cloning capabilities of the program will give you infinite posibilities of image manipulation. Not just simulation of traditional media but also other neat image processes unavailable in any other program. And you won't have to get the skills, just the right eye. And all of this without pressure. Just a plain mouse. And there is more that doesn't need pressure. (BTW, don't get the wrong idea, all the program features and tools are available throught mouse and you will have access to pressure throught the keyboard) A Wacom? IMHO (and most of the artist I know) a pressure sensitive tablet is the ideal complement to the program (there are more opinions: some people like Doug Wolfgram will tell you that they don't need a tablet for painting —I won't :). You can live without it (specially if you won't use the program as an art creation tool (from scratch) but as an tool for image enhancing and retouching). However, once you try it… well, that's another story <g> ana /krazy images ps.And wait to see the textures you will create with it!
#75766From: Mike KelleyJan 12, 1994 10:59 AM
Thanks, Ana, I'm definitely getting Fractal (I don't need to be hit over the head — well, maybe) and now I'm just trying to decide about the tablet — mostly because I can get a deal if I get the Wacom 6×9 at the same time as Fractal (it's around 600 for both — the price of the Wacom separately seems to be around $425). And now I hear about the XGT… Isn't life (and other possibilities) interesting?
#75968From: krazy imagesJan 13, 1994 4:37 AM
The Wacom offer is nice. Lot of people I know are going that way. Sincerelly, the Wacom is a really awesome board. ana /krazy images
#75739From: David J. MarksJan 12, 1994 8:11 AM
>>Is it worth the several hundreds of dollars for a tablet… I believe it is. I haven't found anything else with the positive response of a tablet. There is no ball to pick up dirt and you are not stuck on a tiny mouse pad. If working with AutoCAD at all, you can pick commands right off the tablet and digitize shapes from existing plans or photos. Most tablets have styluses (stylii?) available and many have pressure sensitive ones too. I can't think of a better way to control a paint program or other "mouse-driven" program.
#75767From: Mike KelleyJan 12, 1994 11:00 AM
Thanks, I think I am "sold" on getting a tablet, assuming I can figure a way to make it co-exist with my mouse (since I only have the one serial available now — I have a rather fully loaded machine). Then I only have to decide which one…
#75815From: Dave Byrnes [AEC TM]Jan 12, 1994 3:03 PM
Mike – many tablets come with mouse emulator drivers. I think the Kurta's is good, but the one that comes with Summasketches doesn't like to let go if you're switching back and forth between mouse and digitizer mode. At least if you're working with AutoCAD, that is… Dave
#75781From: Bruce MeikleJan 12, 1994 12:16 PM
>>Wacom…let me know if you think a non-artist would benefit from it?<< You may benefit even more for the simple reason that it is much harder to try to draw with a mouse than it is with a pen. I would recomend a tablet as a way of making easier for you to both use the programs and to move towards shedding the "non-artist" label <g>. Bruce Meikle ps– I meant to send a message to you and sent it to John Tissavary by mistake. (I was having a bad E-Mail day <g>). Here it is again, if you haven't seen it yet: >>Just to muddy your decision waters a little bit <g>… We use Fractal Painter (with X2) in its Mac incarnation at the studio and find it an excellent program but on the windows side there is another possible option. Fauve Matisse isn't quite as wonderful as Painter, but then again it isn't as expensive either <g> and it has a few features that you can only get with X2. Notably: the ability to keep multiple floating selections. It will give a series of naturalist brushes, autocloning and the like that were so wonderfully pioneered by Painter. If you were looking for a serious natural painting tool, I'd still recomend Painter, but you expressed concern about your traditionaal drawing skills. Perhaps Matisse bears some looking into as a sort of "Painter Lite". We use it on the PC side of the studio and it's been very good, especially for its low price.<<
#75787From: Mike KelleyJan 12, 1994 12:56 PM
Yep, that's the ticket. I'm convinced I need Painter and a tablet — now if I can only decide WHICH tablet. But I sure do love this forum (and the people here). Thanks, all of you, for the feedback (it's nice not to feel alone — here in Nevada there ain't but a handful of people who even understand what 3DS IS).
#75945From: John TissavaryJan 13, 1994 1:51 AM
I think you should really try both tablets (Wacom, Kurta XGT). I would stay away from Summa, but that's my opinion. Only you will know which tablet "feels" better and fits into your budget, and there are plenty of dealers who carry both brands.
#75992From: krazy imagesJan 13, 1994 8:53 AM
Summa Vade Retro! ana /krazy images
#76244From: John TissavaryJan 14, 1994 3:54 AM
<GGG> :^) John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
#76013From: David J. MarksJan 13, 1994 10:03 AM
>>stay away from Summa, but that's my opinion. Since Steve McGuinness hasn't jumped in to defend the Summa, I guess I should. I have had good and bad experiences with many different tablets: Calcomp 2500, 9100 were excellent with Acad, but stunk with mouse and Windows drivers (they had great buttons, tho'). The Calcomp drawing board II series was terrible, as was the Kurta IS/ONE (the buttons were awful on both – and they look like toys). The early Summas were decent, but the buttons had a terrible response and needed frequent replacement. I have been using the new SummaSketch III, and find it to be a good solid product. The cursor has been greatly improved and the buttons have the best response I've come across. I believe new ADI drivers have been written that eliminate any ACAD problems and the mouse and windows drivers can't be beat. I believe they have new cordless models and pressure sensitive stylusses available, that Mike should look into before buying something else. <just my opinion – please don't beat on me!>
#76053From: krazy imagesJan 13, 1994 12:38 PM
hahaha! At last a real enemy, a Summa defender <g> Karl, 🙂 I have to be honest. I don't know about the III models. However, the II have no application in the arts. I have see reviews about the Summa III but all of them applied to the CAD field, which is not my field of interest for tablets. Of course, Mike should check all the options available. We are just giving our opinions, so don't worry, nobody will beat you <g> ana /krazy images ps.yeeeha, Viva Wacom!