Fractal Painter
18 messages in this thread
>I will get Painter plus a Wacom with my eyes closed. Not Shop. Not Styler. No
>Composer.
Thanks, Ana, I kind of suspected this kind of reply (was looking for it, in
fact) and I appreciate it. It looks like I have to have Painter/X2 — if
nothing more, because I will always wonder what wonderful things I might have
done without it. However, now I have one final question, based upon the above.
Wacom — can you step back and try to remove your artistic skills and eyes and
let me know if you think a non-artist would benefit from it? Assuming that
that only program I would use it with would be Painter/X2, that I already have
a serial mouse with no other ports available, am I even going to be able to
hook up the Wacom? (I know, that's a hardware question that someone else might
be able to answer — I'd be willing to put a hardware switch on the serial port
if that will work).
The bottom line for you (and anyone else who might have some feedback): Is it
worth the several hundreds of dollars for a tablet for someone who can't really
draw (I won't say a straight line — "Drawing on the Right Side" taught me that
even an artist can't draw a straight line without help). If it even helps
slightly then it might be worth it to me.
I threw all my mice in the trash when I got my XGT. I would recommend the XGT
over the WACOM. It is a sturdier tablet, and difference in feel is as much a
matter of taste and habit as anything else. I don't understand why anyone
would use a mouse as an input device if they have a tablet with much greater
accuracy, resolution, no stupid balls to get stuck (I've ruined a couple of
mice throwing them against the wall after they froze up on a REALLY important
line in a drawing or model), greater wrist comfort, pressure sensitivity,
etc…. The Kurta XGT is wireless, so I've got a pressure sensetive pen and a
puck always ready to go. I use the pen for painting and some 3DS functions,
and the puck for ACAD and most mouse-like operations. Mice really suck. I
can't even aim the damned things any more because I'm used to moveing the
cursor around consistently to the same place with the same wrist motion and you
need a precision input device for something like that, and mice ain't persisiun
<g>.
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
Thanks, John, for the input. Can I ask what model XGT you have or recommend?
And would hooking such a device up to a switchbox (since I don't have any more
serial ports available) with my mouse be practicable, or do I have to have the
mouse active at the same time?
Kurta makes a wide range of tablets, one of which is the XGT. Mine is
a 12×12 with pressure sensetive stylus and 4 button puck. The
emulations (Summa, Wacom) are FLAWLESS so far, and the mouse driver
has never done any wrong. I bought the tablet for $695 with fractal
and the pen bundled, but that was a Siggraph special. I'm sure you
can get a deal for close to that, though.
I'm not sure if you got my last anti-mouse rampage message, but I
wouldn't hook a mouse up to my system if you paid me. I hate mice
almost as much as I hate the 640K ceiling in MS-DOS (and that's a
lot). I have found NO reasons to use a mouse since acquiring my XGT
tablet.
Thanks to you (and Ana and David) for responding — I'm going to shop around
now and just find what bundle/tablet is available. But at least I'm convinced
that Fractal and a tablet are the way to go, and that's what I needed to know.
You could use any Photoshop or Photostyler compatible filters with Painter, so
you have Aldus, Adobe and KAI plug ins to choose from (a batch-like feature
will be available in X3). It have a pretty good number of spectacular and
dramatic effects by itself and more than the basic general image manipulation
tools (from brightness and contrast adjustment to any other image adjustment
–all within the RGB, CMYK or NTSC fields). X2 will let you have all the
Altamira capabilities and more, so you have object oriented image manipulation
with infinite alpha channels, portfolio libraries, object listing with
subordination and grouping (here is a neverending list 🙂 …
You have session playback capabilities, which let you use any series of general
retouching and/or fine painting, record them, and playback in each of the
desired images. Furthermore, you can increase resolution with any replay, so
you can save a lot of precious memory and time (i.e. Get a low resolution image
from 3ds… want to add neat effects, clone, draw, whatever… do it. Then
render at high resoultion -say for a dye sub print- change the resolution and
replay the session with the new res settings. Voila! Instant automatic
superspeed replay). More? The cloning. Probably one of the most powerful
Painter (well, all of them are powerfull 🙂 features. You may not be an artist,
but the cloning capabilities of the program will give you infinite posibilities
of image manipulation. Not just simulation of traditional media but also other
neat image processes unavailable in any other program. And you won't have to
get the skills, just the right eye.
And all of this without pressure. Just a plain mouse. And there is more that
doesn't need pressure. (BTW, don't get the wrong idea, all the program features
and tools are available throught mouse and you will have access to pressure
throught the keyboard)
A Wacom? IMHO (and most of the artist I know) a pressure sensitive tablet is
the ideal complement to the program (there are more opinions: some people like
Doug Wolfgram will tell you that they don't need a tablet for painting —I
won't :). You can live without it (specially if you won't use the program as an
art creation tool (from scratch) but as an tool for image enhancing and
retouching). However, once you try it… well, that's another story <g>
ana /krazy images
ps.And wait to see the textures you will create with it!
Thanks, Ana, I'm definitely getting Fractal (I don't need to be hit over the
head — well, maybe) and now I'm just trying to decide about the tablet —
mostly because I can get a deal if I get the Wacom 6×9 at the same time as
Fractal (it's around 600 for both — the price of the Wacom separately seems to
be around $425).
And now I hear about the XGT… Isn't life (and other possibilities)
interesting?
The Wacom offer is nice. Lot of people I know are going that way.
Sincerelly, the Wacom is a really awesome board.
ana /krazy images
>>Is it worth the several hundreds of dollars for a tablet…
I believe it is. I haven't found anything else with the positive response of a
tablet. There is no ball to pick up dirt and you are not stuck on a tiny mouse
pad. If working with AutoCAD at all, you can pick commands right off the
tablet and digitize shapes from existing plans or photos. Most tablets have
styluses (stylii?) available and many have pressure sensitive ones too. I
can't think of a better way to control a paint program or other "mouse-driven"
program.
Thanks, I think I am "sold" on getting a tablet, assuming I can figure a way to
make it co-exist with my mouse (since I only have the one serial available now
— I have a rather fully loaded machine). Then I only have to decide which
one…
Mike – many tablets come with mouse emulator drivers. I think the Kurta's is
good, but the one that comes with Summasketches doesn't like to let go if
you're switching back and forth between mouse and digitizer mode. At least if
you're working with AutoCAD, that is…
Dave
>>Wacom…let me know if you think a non-artist would benefit from it?<<
You may benefit even more for the simple reason that it is much harder to try
to draw with a mouse than it is with a pen. I would recomend a tablet as a way
of making easier for you to both use the programs and to move towards shedding
the "non-artist" label <g>.
Bruce Meikle
ps– I meant to send a message to you and sent it to John Tissavary by
mistake. (I was having a bad E-Mail day <g>). Here it is again, if you haven't
seen it yet:
>>Just to muddy your decision waters a little bit <g>…
We use Fractal Painter (with X2) in its Mac incarnation at the studio and find
it an excellent program but on the windows side there is another possible
option. Fauve Matisse isn't quite as wonderful as Painter, but then again it
isn't as expensive either <g> and it has a few features that you can only get
with X2. Notably: the ability to keep multiple floating selections. It will
give a series of naturalist brushes, autocloning and the like that were so
wonderfully pioneered by Painter.
If you were looking for a serious natural painting tool, I'd still recomend
Painter, but you expressed concern about your traditionaal drawing skills.
Perhaps Matisse bears some looking into as a sort of "Painter Lite". We use it
on the PC side of the studio and it's been very good, especially for its low
price.<<
Yep, that's the ticket. I'm convinced I need Painter and a tablet — now if I
can only decide WHICH tablet.
But I sure do love this forum (and the people here). Thanks, all of you, for
the feedback (it's nice not to feel alone — here in Nevada there ain't but a
handful of people who even understand what 3DS IS).
I think you should really try both tablets (Wacom, Kurta XGT). I
would stay away from Summa, but that's my opinion. Only you will
know which tablet "feels" better and fits into your budget, and there
are plenty of dealers who carry both brands.
Summa Vade Retro!
ana /krazy images
<GGG> :^)
John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
>>stay away from Summa, but that's my opinion.
Since Steve McGuinness hasn't jumped in to defend the Summa, I guess I should.
I have had good and bad experiences with many different tablets: Calcomp 2500,
9100 were excellent with Acad, but stunk with mouse and Windows drivers (they
had great buttons, tho'). The Calcomp drawing board II series was terrible, as
was the Kurta IS/ONE (the buttons were awful on both – and they look like
toys). The early Summas were decent, but the buttons had a terrible response
and needed frequent replacement.
I have been using the new SummaSketch III, and find it to be a good solid
product. The cursor has been greatly improved and the buttons have the best
response I've come across. I believe new ADI drivers have been written that
eliminate any ACAD problems and the mouse and windows drivers can't be beat.
I believe they have new cordless models and pressure sensitive stylusses
available, that Mike should look into before buying something else.
<just my opinion – please don't beat on me!>
hahaha! At last a real enemy, a Summa defender <g>
Karl, 🙂
I have to be honest. I don't know about the III models. However, the II have no
application in the arts. I have see reviews about the Summa III but all of them
applied to the CAD field, which is not my field of interest for tablets. Of
course, Mike should check all the options available. We are just giving our
opinions, so don't worry, nobody will beat you <g>
ana /krazy images
ps.yeeeha, Viva Wacom!