CompuServe Thread

#NTSC>PAL conv quality?

13 messages in this thread
#41875From: Glenn ScottJun 11, 1994 5:53 PM
Does anyone reading this have experience with converting a NTSC format master tape to a PAL format? Is there a great loss in quality, i.e. more than one could expect from one generation loss? I am not interested in buying the equipment to do it. There are a lot of firms out there who will do standards conversion. What do I look for in their equipment to get the best results? Is this a viable option for creating a PAL master to dup from?
#41897From: John ChangJun 13, 1994 11:11 AM
Glen, Glen, Depending on the quality you are looking for, their are several options. The Panasonic WX-1 VHS VCR has the ability to convert NTSC to PAL and vice versa. Additional video standards are also supported (i.e. SECAM). I've seen the results from this unit, with the exception of credit rolls, it does fine for a VHS conversion. Prime Image has the new Passport 4000, which is suppose to be as good as those converters costing thousands more. It's broadcast quality and has no problems with credit rolls, or anything else for that matter. However, you will need a PAL VTR for recording. Regards, John Chang Technical Support Manager Scala, Inc.
#41899From: Glenn ScottJun 13, 1994 11:52 AM
Hi John, My acquisition tape is in Hi8 and I want to keep as much of that quality as I possibly can, including dumping the original cuts to BetaSP to cut a master. The second, and cheaper possibility as I see it is to dump a Hi8 master (I keep this to 2nd gen), dump that to Beta and convert to PAL from there. I have read a bit about the Passport 4000 and it sounds like a good board. For now, I don't want to invest in a bunch of new equipment. I want to do some conversions for a test market in the UK, and see how that goes before I invest in my own equipment. I plan to have an outside firm to the conversion. The technical aspect that I have no experience with is how the final PAL version is going to look, since the conversion is coming from a 30 fps lower resolution format, to the PAL 25 fps higher resolution standard. There has to be a gap. I am wondering how much of a gap. Ideally I would like to stay as close to broadcast standard as I can. If the market test works out, I will invest in a PAL camcorder, and take it from there. I would think the PAL>NTSC conversion would be more successful than the other way around, or am I wrong? Glenn
#41920From: John ChangJun 14, 1994 9:22 AM
Glenn, Depending on the equipment employed for the conversion, there should not be any gaps. The additional "resolution" is accomplished by interpolating additional scanlines in the NTSC signal for recording to PAL. The Passport 4000 has an 8 field memory with interpolation capabilities to accomplish this task. Good luck on your market tests! Regards, John Chang Technical Support Manager Scala, Inc.
#41922From: Glenn ScottJun 14, 1994 12:58 PM
Thanks John. I am glad to hear that with the right service, this should work out. I got a message today over on the BPForum that said I needed to look for a four field standards converter, and gave me the names of four good ones. It sounds like the people who put together the Passport 4000 have one fine piece of equipment. It isn't all that expensive either, I understand. I will certainly keep it in mind if I get to purchasing equipment. Glenn
#42001From: Wolf FaustJun 17, 1994 11:20 AM
How about colors transformation during NTSC->PAL? I allways find the programs/hardware to simply interpolate not taking care about colors. Well, maybe NTSC is so poor color quality that you don't have to take care about color transformation anyway… 😉 — Wolf Faust, Am Dorfgarten 10, 60435 Frankfurt, Germany —
#42040From: John ChangJun 20, 1994 3:38 PM
Wolf, Ouch! That hurt Wolf! ;-} Eh, maybe your right. Wait till we have HDTV dude! You'll have to sit there and wait, and wait, and wait… Seriously, with the new chipset, color equivalents should be easy to do. Regards, Johhn Chang Technical Support Manager Scala, Inc.
#41968From: John ChangJun 16, 1994 9:25 AM
Glenn, Indeed PAL to NTSC is a bit easier than the other way around. If you do plan on purchasing a PAL camcorder, then the Passport 4000 is all that you need. Just one more thing, for better NTSC to PAL encoding, you may want to invest in duplicating your Hi-8 Master to Betacam SP and then do the conversion via Passport 4000. As you may know, the Passport will accept a component video input. Regards, John Chang Technical Support Manager Scala, Inc.
#41982From: Glenn ScottJun 16, 1994 11:02 PM
John, Thanks. I have my dup house dump my Hi8 masters to BetaCam SP and then hang on to them in their vault. That has lots of advantages. For this initial marketing trial, I'll get someone else to do the standards conversion. They can probably do it, but I haven't called yet to quizz them about their equipment. Between here and the BPFORUM I have a list of questions to ask. Now that I know the quality is feasible, I have been working at setting up my UK contacts. I do art and architecture documentaries, and I am working on a big series on French architecture now, Romanesque and Gothic periods. It would be nice to follow it up with a series on English architecture, since it ties in so nicely. It has taken four trips to France to get the footage I am satisfied with, including going back in the winter to some locations because trees were in the way, and until I do a series on trees and their leaves, that wasn't any good. Weather is always the big gamble, and I have had to go back hoping for better weather. Sometimes the editing is interesting because I can make Spring arrive with a simple fade. For my purposes, which so far involves mostly European locations, perhaps investing in a good PAL camcorder, and converting to NTSC might be something to consider. Again the quality question comes up .. apart from a possible generation loss, are you going to retain the same quality? Hi8 has worked very well for me, and has many in-the-field advantages, not to mention luggage advantages.
#41996From: John ChangJun 17, 1994 10:03 AM
Glen, "Beyond 2000" on the Discovery Channel network, is an Australian production shot in PAL. If you hadn't noticed, then you know it is a good conversion. However, I'm not quiet sure which bureau did the conversion process. You may have to look into another forum to find the answer. Good luck! Regards, John Chang Technical Support Manager Scala, Inc.
#41998From: Glenn ScottJun 17, 1994 10:51 AM
I got some very good feedback on BPFORUM. Even Disney Studios replied with a conversion problem they encountered in Paris. I also heard from a pro from Australia. I was also curious about conversions to SECAM as well, though that only involves France, Iran and Russia. Did you know that NTSC stands for "Never Twice Same Color"; SECAM "Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method" and PAL "Peace At Last"? Glenn
#42039From: John ChangJun 20, 1994 3:38 PM
Glenn, You said and I quote, "Did you know that NTSC stands for "Never Twice Same Color"; SECAM "Something Essentially Contrary to the American Method" and PAL "Peace At Last"?" Yes indeedy, I have heard those acronymic expansion expressions many, many times. I still chuckle. I'll have to check through the Passport data sheet to see if it will do the other formats. Regards, John Chang Technical Support Manager Scala, Inc.
#42050From: Glenn ScottJun 21, 1994 12:00 AM
After I wrote the message to you, I was looking at an issue before last of Video Toaster User where they announced the Passport 4000 board, and it does apparently handle a SECAM translate and a few more obscure standards as well. It also announced the retail price, which is a bit more than I want to throw at this project at the moment, but in the long run, it may be a very good answer. Glenn