CompuServe Thread

#Render / Video Farm

21 messages in this thread
#178919From: Robert BrownJul 7, 1995 3:38 PM
Is there a high demand for sending rendering jobs to outside company's? The reason I'm asking this is for the simple reason that my company is about to purchase 130+ P100's all attached to a Netware 100BASET network; and durring the night I figure I could have them rendering rather then sleeping! I could send the output to either DAT tape or to video (PVR). Let me know if there is a demand for this… Thanx Bob-
#178936From: Don LandisJul 7, 1995 5:48 PM
I do a fair amount of long distance rendering for others here on the forum with my small network system. While it would appear that "the computers do all the work" to the average computer illiterate on the street, the hard facts are it takes special knowledge of the process, 3DS networking operations, animation rendering idiosyncrancies, and UPS power systems, not to mention the video side of things. People with budgets to farm out rendering are usually demanding on video quality and up against a deadline. If you think running a render farm of 6-10 machines is just a simple matter of throwing a big switch at 5 PM when the boss goes home, plugging in a DAT tape with the project files from the client, then you go home… return the next day to a completed video of the animation you obviously have no concept of this business. And 100 machines??? Well this is just fantasyland stuff. Others have announced this same proprosal as yours ever since the network rendering of r3 came on the scene but to my knowledge none have ever successfully got these super farms operational to a full service business. The reality of the situation is they soon realized that running a sideline business like this is #1. not profitable; 2. difficult to make the boss understand why they were so tired the next day after fighting problems on the rendering job all night; 3. The first job they were sent was a total nightmare of screwups requiring a lot of fixing prior to rendering; 4. They had to go out and purchase 80% of the budget of IPAS routines to complete the job. 5. The boss found out about it and wanted some of the gross money; too much so that it reduced the wage to do this to 5 cents per hour if that. What is realistic is if you have a moderate sized network say 10-15 machines and already have a fair investment in IPAS routines, broadcast Video equipment and have the engineering know how to pull it off you can start your own business as a video post operation with animation services. Then to fill the void between major animation projects, take on selected jobs for this output service. You only use this service offering as a profit center that otherwise fills hours on the expensive equipment you already purchased. Again this equipment must include video output to broadcast because it's been my experience that the only jobs that get farmed out are video output combined with rendering. ie these jobs are either just video output or a combo of the two. Every potential client I spoke with almost always wants to do his own rendering. Also realistic is that other's jobs will always require your full attention during the rendering process and they all have crazy deadlines. Just forget about sleeping on the job and leaving the computers to do all the work. That kind of thinking is usually the figment of the Harvard Business School professors not successful entrepreneurs.
#178952From: Matt ArmstrongJul 7, 1995 6:44 PM
Don, Right on! We have had up to a 30 P100 64MB Farm at one time and the project was a nightmare! From the time limit imposed to networking considerations and even tougher – figuring out the network rendering bug between R3 and R4 machines. And, then the laying to tape of 17,000 frames with the matrox board – Yeah there is a market but few can afford to pay you for what it will cost you in time, hardware, and sweat & blood. Matt Armstrong TRG / DFW Multimedia
#178958From: MARTIN G FOSTERJul 7, 1995 7:03 PM
Don, that was a great reality check. The more machines you add the more admin you have to do. Give me one or two super fast machines any day, versus 100 moderately fast. I don't like the idea of sending out rendering. Projects need a lot of baby sitting and they rarely (if ever) are right on the first render.
#179489From: Robert BrownJul 11, 1995 1:46 PM
I think your right on some of your comments, while I have been a network administrator for over six years at a 1.2 billion company and working with 3ds for a little over one year, I sometimes still think of myself as that "computer illiterate on the street"… not too much any more! 🙂 All I plan to do is get the jobs (if any) done and asses wether it is worth continuing. Thanx for your input! Bob-
#178956From: Matt ArmstrongJul 7, 1995 6:55 PM
Robert, I would really like to have a shot at selling your company (130) P100 systems. We specialize in high-end custom systems. Matt Armstrong TRG / DFW Multimedia
#179487From: Robert BrownJul 11, 1995 1:37 PM
Hi Matt, sorry AT&T GIS beat you to it. Contract is already signed! Bob-
#179525From: Matt ArmstrongJul 11, 1995 6:17 PM
Bob, Well, can't win em' all… Just let me know if you need any help setting up your farm. One thing, make sure you have a nice BIG fileserver to handle your network overhead… Matt
#179331From: Colin S. CookJul 10, 1995 3:53 PM
Yes there is a demand for this. I would need to be sure that you could work with deadlines, etc. but this would be attractive to me on some jobs
#179486From: Robert BrownJul 11, 1995 1:31 PM
Well, I figure it will be another 30-45 days before I have the hardware in place. Once this is done, I would be ready to begin. I figure I can output about 2.5 minutes of rendering per day (15 minutes per week). This is on the safe side; as I am basing this figure on 80 computers. (not the 100+ that are to be installed) I would need to know what type of media you need this output to, and what kind (if any) plug ins' you require to get the job done. (lenzFX, bones pro etc) Bob-
#179575From: Jul 11, 1995 11:24 PM
Bob: You never did say how much memory you were going to have on your systems…
#180082From: Robert BrownJul 14, 1995 9:51 AM
Hi Greg, well its going to vary from about 10 with 64 meg (back office) to the rest of them at 16 meg. I figure that with the average render time of 15 min. per frame, I could finish 4,400+ frames per day (about 2.5 min worth of video). I know that this is not a super setup, but hey! I did not have to buy the computers either (grin) What do you think of this? Bob-
#180121From: Jul 14, 1995 1:21 PM
Bob: >> its going to vary from about 10 with 64 meg (back office) to the rest >> of them at 16 meg. We have found that 16 megs isn't nearly enough for most of our projects, you'll be beating up your hard disks pretty bad. I think you'll find that most people will only send you their biggest, hairiest projects (if they were small they'd do them themselves!) Could you average out the memory to give the machines all 32 megs while rendering? Greg Pyros
#180296From: Robert BrownJul 15, 1995 1:27 PM
Yes, I can add an additional 16 meg. (32 total). I'll have to see how much this is going to raise the total cost of the project! If its not too much I should have no problem adding it in. Bob-
#180340From: Jul 15, 1995 8:31 PM
Bob: >> 32 megs I think it will help you out, and get you more clients! What are you doing for tape output once you have the frames rendered? Greg Pyros
#180572From: Robert BrownJul 17, 1995 4:32 PM
Greg: >> What are you doing for tape output once you have the frames rendered? The client would have an option for either 2gig DAT, 1.8gig Optical disk, or for video tape, I can rent pro equiptment for a local video house; and using my (soon to be had) DPS Perception card output to tape. What is the preferred method for a client? Bob-
#180624From: Jul 17, 1995 9:36 PM
Bob: >> What is the preferred method for a client? Depends on the client! Some will be happy with a flic, others want D-1 or they'll go somewhere else! >> option for either 2gig DAT, 1.8gig Optical disk… You might want to include Exabyte 8mm also, that is what all the big post houses use for Abekas or Accom output. (Does that make me a big post house?) Greg Pyros
#180138From: Mark YankeeJul 14, 1995 2:49 PM
Bob, << the rest of them at 16 meg >> I really don't think 16mb of ram is enough. If your running r4 I would say 32mb would be a minimum. And if you plan on upgrading to r5 for NT the first 16mb would be used just to load Windows NT. Mark
#180297From: Robert BrownJul 15, 1995 1:33 PM
I will have to see what features the new 3ds "r5" has and if it will be worth it. If it is, will you still be able to use the slave feature with 100+ pc's with one copy of 3ds? I already have 8 pc's running NT (64 meg); I could test it out on them when r5 comes out and see if it will do what I need. Bob-
#180738From: Matt ArmstrongJul 18, 1995 5:47 PM
Robert, I doubt you will be able to use 3DS r4 slave machines with 3DS r5 – We encountered a nightmare rendering a 7000 frame job when our lead animator decided to upgrade to r4 from r3 during the middle of this job. It turned out that r4 did some different things with the set files and we experienced all sorts of goodies like field reversal, dropped fields, etc. Message is: Get ready for some real fun… What are you going to do when it's 7:00 in the morning and you've contracted a job to be finished and shipped out by 12:00 and your employees start coming in to work on their computers? Not a pretty scenario. PS: 64MB per machine is the minimum. Most jobs we have contracted for run between 50MB and 80MB frame size. Render time per frame is between 10 sec. and 2 minutes depending upon complexity. Anyway, Good Luck… Matt Armstrong TRG / DFW Multimedia
#181270From: Colin S. CookJul 20, 1995 11:30 PM
Robert: I've been out of the loop on this conversation for two weeks and want to jump in with some comments. I agree with the guys who are arguing for 64K plus. For complex projects the time swapping out to disk is going to kill you. If I were to use your facilities I would want to be able to bring you project files on an Exabyte and receive them back on the same medium. I also wonder what kind of personel you plan to have on site while the render is going. Feel free to call me at 213-957-6868 to discuss your plans further.