#WordPerfect
36 messages in this thread
Would someone explain to why why WordPerfect is considered to be so great?
WordPerfect is one of the very few "industry standard" application
programs written for the Amiga. It could have been better, and it has not
been updated to be compatible with the latest offerings on other
platforms. However, it will still read and write the same format, and can
be easily transported to machines at work. It is a very powerful word
processor (not especially easy to use compared to other Amiga offerings,
but quite easy compared to most MS_DOS ones) that can do columns, tables
of contents, indexing, footnotes and endnotes and other such advanced
features needed by writers whose demands are rather heavy.
A computer has to have a good, and well-known, word processor,
spreadsheet, and database if it is to be accepted in almost any business
environment. We had Word Perfect for word processing and SuperBASE for
the database, but we never had a Spreadsheet of the quality needed.
Amen ROB! WP is an overbloated, over-toted complilation of absurdity and
redundancy. Give Pen Pal and Final Copy a look. In my opinion their user
interfaces are much better for the casual to average user; the thought of
using anything from the clone kingdom on my Amiga turns my insides inside
out. Shame on Worperfect corp for shafting the Amiga!
Angel Pagan
One of the joys about having WP on the Amiga is that I can pull in
documents from other WP users: I do a lot of DTP work for my brother, most
of which arrives as WP files from a typing agency. Porting them across to
the Amiga via a cheap XT portable and then sucking them into PPage or the
Amiga version of WP is a doddle. (English slang for "very easy") I have a
word-processing program for the XT that I paid around $60 for that reads
and writes a number of formats, so I can even translate between different
vesions on that and then do the transfers. So far, all file transfers
between different versions have been just fine. WP allows me to communicate
with a world that is, in general, hostile to anything that is not Mav or
IBM compatible, and I wouldn't be without it. WP backup in the U.K. is,
IMHO, superb, even for the Amiga version. It far outclasses ANY other
software backup I have come across since I started using computers. The
last time I called for some advice, the lady who dealt with my call
apologised for the fact thet WP no longer produced the Amiga version!
John
– via Whap!
WordPerfect is the industry standard, but unfortunately I am not convinced.
Just because "everyone uses it" is no reason to jump on the bandwagon. You
cite excellent examples of how we as Amiga users must conform and live in a
WP world. I suspect we would have a great deal of converts if MSDOS/WP
users simply TRIED an Amiga Word Processor like Final Copy, Pen Pal, and
ProWrite.
In closing, I believe that WordPerfect corp is full of hot air. They cited
an insufficient market as reason for dropping their Amiga support. The fact
is, they are a multi million dollar company. They can afford to gamble.
Amiga developers like Softwood and New Horizon have less resources and they
strive to produce quality software…I'll support their efforts and use
ASCI between the office and home!
Angel Pagan
I wouldn't make to much out of "industry standard". Lotus just won its
lawsuit against Borland over the purported "look and feel" of Quattro,
Borland's 1-2-3 look-alike/clone. The judge wasn't kind and the ruling
wasn't vague: Borland is now shipping a 1-2-3-less version of Quattro [two
days after the ruling — seems they expected it].
1-2-3 is *the* industry standard for spreadsheets, and Borland [now a more
humblecompany] rode the 1-2-3 compatible wave into the big bucks of
DOS/Windows spreadsheets. Now we'll see how well it can stand on it's own.
Most people don't realize that you don't *need* to run Word Perfect, or
Lotus or DBase at all. What you *need* is easy (transparent) access to
data created in those formats. You don't *have* to be a 1-2-3 clone to
make it in the spreadsheet biz but you *do* have to be able to load
WKS files without a hitch.
A pet peeve of mine is people who buy DOS computers because they *need* to
run Word Perfect (Lotus, DBase). 95% of the time they don't, they just
need to do some work at home and need to access the data. [Actually, most
just pirate the software from work and use it at home. With the price of
WP, 1-2-3, DBase and others [AutoCAD comes to mind] who can afford it for
home use?]
Sorry to run on like that, but "industry standard" is one of those phrases
that really tees me off.
-Chas AM-Report
I agree. I use the phrase here scornfully. You're right in pointing out the
need for software packages to read transparently "popular" formats. Like
'em or hate 'em, they'll be here for a long time….
Angel Pagan
Don't misunderstand me, I don't use WP as my main wordprocessor, just as my
link to the rest of the non-Amiga world. ASXII is fine but it saves me a
lot of time re-formatting text if I can import a file that my DTP program
knows about. I do most of my work using PPage and use Transwrite/Article
Editor for all the text manipulation stuff. The trouble with pushing the
Amiga to MS-DOS users, particularly in this country, is the fact that all
goes fine until they ask how much it's going to cost them. Then the looks
of envy turn to looks of disbelief – "I can get a 486 with 240M harddrive
and SVGA for HALF that!" is the usual response. Believe me, I try hard,
including on other CIS forums and am frequently shot down in flames with
comments like " Amiga users are the dregs of humanity…." and "I will
NEVER have an Amiga in my office…unreleiable…no backup…far too
expensive…" etc. BTW, my copy of WP was purchased second-hand for
UKP60.00, around $120, so WP Corp didn't get my money although they do
still provide me free technical support and upgrades.
Best Wishes,
John
– via Whap!
John,
It's interesting that PC people talk price now; i.e. "I can get <some PC>
for half that!" When Amigas were cheaper than PCs, people still didn't buy
them on price if they could spend more money for a PC.
When my mother bought her XT, some years back, I told her that if she
wanted a _good_ computer, she'd have to spend less money. Didn't stop her
from buying the XT though. It, of course, is a dead and buried machine now.
Malcolm
Malcolm,
I've never been able to understand why people have to buy the latest
fastest machine on the PC market. I've covered my PC needs by buying an
obsolete portable for a song. Brand new, boxed, guaranteed and working
fine, but just not fast enough for today's go-getting executive. I called
in to see a friend who has an top-end Mac provided for him by his company.
He was re-designing his bathroom layout with it.
So much for increased productivity.
John.
– via Whap!
John,
Well, like I said, my mom's machine is a dead platform. I borrowed it
hoping to do some work at home but its floppy is 360K; i.e. machine is
worthless.
I agree about productivity too. I think the recession of the early '80s was
due to people not knowing how to use PCs and I think the current one is due
to people not knowing how to use their networks.
I've been known to say in the past: IBM is a dangerous cult, bent on
seizing the wheels of productivity in order to bring them to a screeching
halt. 🙂
Malcolm
IBM isn't even in control of it anymore. They're losing in their own
battlefield.
Sure, XT's are dead, but I'd hardly blame economic trends on that. Unless
someone used one to send doomsday messages to Wall Street..
John,
<I've never been able to understand why people have to buy the latest
fastest machine on the PC market.>
So us PC users can play Ultima 7 and Falcon 3 <g>. Anything less is just
*too* slow.
Paul
Angel,
Pardon my jumping into this thread.
I must agree with John re his reasons for using Word Perfect. He is
absolutely correct.
I have had Amiga Word Perfect since the day it came out. I have suffered
through all the bug 'fixes.' I abhore it. I abhore WP on my MS DOS machines
too.
WP 5.1 on my 486 is a dog.
But the reality is that the whole world uses it.
We are a large commercial printer. We get many jobs a day from people who
have insisted on using WP to enter their data. I can at least read their
files and convert them to WP 4.2 format. Then I can get them into the Amiga
where Amiga WP can read the 4.2 format and save in native Amiga style. Then
I import those files into Pagestream.
It is a nightmare to have the customer save his/her file in ASCII, and then
import the ASCII file. I have been converting such files between various
platforms for over 12 years and believe me, I know every trick there is to
keep various paragraph formats intact, prevent tables from falling apart,
etc. Something ALWAYS goes awry.
Being able to stay in word processor format is a godsend. And like it or
not, Word Perfect is the world's word processor.
You are NOT going to get others to use or like word processors that are
available on the Amiga. And truth be told, WP with all its warts, is still
better for text editing than any Amiga word processor.
Rich
Rich,
Very persuasive argument. Ever considered calling up WP and finding out why
they have dropped the Amiga? The answer, although seemingly obvious ($$$$$)
doesn't boil over with me – not when there are companies out there with far
less resources than WP and striving to put out quality software. It is
their persistence and determination that has kept the Amiga alive. Bottom
line for me is, if they won't support my machine, I will not support their
product.
WP 5.1 is a dog! Using it at work on my 386 clone leaves a bad taste in my
mouth, and come 5:00 I am thankful to get away from it. I can sympathize
with DP types that rely so heavily on it; it'll be here for a while. But
than again, so was the plague! <G>
Angel Pagan
Angel,
A couple of years ago this forum was magnitudes more active than it is now.
While Amiga WP was still alive at WP Corp, there was at times more WP
traffic than all other messages combined!
As a matter of fact, the chief Amiga WP programmer was active here. I think
his name was Lynn. Many of us had in depth discussions with him about all
kinds of programming issues.
When rumors of Amiga WP demise started to surface, one of the WP vice
presidents came online here to assure us that Amiga WP was only going to go
through a kind of transition and rebirth after they got MAC WP straightened
out. (The rationale was that development on that 68000-based machine would
benefit this 68000-based machine – what hog wash!).
We implored WP Corp to stay with Amiga. They said that they would. Then
they pulled out. No amount of discussion, pleading, groveling (I don't know
what to call it) was of any use. As far as WP Corp was concerned, the
numbers weren't there.
They had initially made a decent profit on the product, but lost that and
more because of the terrible state of the initial releases which were
bug-ridden beyond belief.
Despite the numbers of Amigas sold world-wide or domestically, WP Corp
perceived that very few Amiga owners were potential WP customers. They may
well have been right. They felt that Amiga users were not sophisticated
enough to appreciate the power of a word processor like WP (sic). They may
well have been right (there is a major Amiga word processor which has gone
through many revisions, which adheres to the fad of, yucch, WYSIWYG, and
which to this day does not provide hyphenation). In 1980 I could do more
word processing on my Kaypro 64 than many Amiga programs now offer, yet
they all can import graphics, by gosh! (real important for a word
processor, y'know.)
Any way, we tried to get WP to stay with us. Blame them. Blame CBM who
really blew it in terms of lining up the big guys to write for this
machine.
I'll continue to use my antique Amiga WP. I paid for it. It's mine.
[ MORE ]
[ continuation ]
Interesting thought. Since WP Corp no longer makes Amiga WP, they shouldn't
be able to claim ownership of the license. We should be able to freely
distribute this program. Anyone?
Rich
Richard,
Not even close. Copyright protection lasts far beyond "no longer
selling it". I forget the numbers…but I believe it's a minimum of 56
years for copyrights held by a corporation.
Don
Don:
Is it really even a question of copyrights? I would think that the s/w
license is what counts here.
// Michael
\X/ …on AutoPilot
Michael,
Of course it's a question of copyright — WP Corp. owns the copyright
to the program, as it is their intellectual property. All the software
license does is to grant the licensee (you, the customer) the right to use
this intellectual property, as governed by the terms of the license. Were
the license to be declared invalid, then you'd have NO RIGHTS to the
property, not unlicensed rights to the property.
Now, I am not a lawyer, so one shouldn't take my word as gospel.
However, I do make my living from software, so I do make it a point to try
to understand these issues to a certain extent.
– BobR
Michael,
And what do you think gives them the right to offer a license in
the first place?
Don
Don:
That's true… I guess it would be pretty stupid to issue a license for a
product over which you didn't have exclusive rights. P.T. Barnum,
however, would do it. <g>
// Michael
\X/ …on AutoPilot
I can't say I'm a copyright expert, but my job brings me into contact with
very heavy international copyright issues and so I do a great deal of
reading, and have many reference books … so here's my ha'p'orth:
The software you buy is copyright … it therefore does not allow you to do
anything other than let it sit in its box! You cannot legally transfer it
to your hard-disk or even store it in your machine's RAM! (let alone make
back-ups), without breaking copyright law (US, UK and International
copyright law are much the same in this particular area, although the
`electronic form' may not include machine RAM in some countries).
However, there is a restricted licence issued with the software which
allows you to perform things that would otherwise be illegal … that
includes copying it to your hard-disk, making back-ups and so on. It
basically gives you the basic legal rights you need to use the software.
In the UK (I don't know about the US, because it's part of consumer law and
not copyright law), if an explicit licence is not supplied with the
software there is an `implied licence' which would at least allow you to do
with the software whatever it was you bought it for (which means copying it
to hard-disk etc).
The basic legal principle is that a licence permits acts that would
otherwise be illegal .. and a licence, in itself, cannot restrict an act
which would otherwise be _legal_.
Mike (from the UK)
Thanks Mike. Well said!
Michael
Don,
Thanks. It was just a silly thought!
Rich
I'm afraid not, we've (MSS) discontinued programs but that doesn't mean
they
are freely distributable. If nothing else, the Amiga WP probably still
contains much code that is present in all versions of WP, so they can't
release that. If it does get distributed everywhere (I'm sure CIS won't
allow it here) then WP will feel doubly justified in its abandonment…
.."major Amiga Word Processor… does not provide hyphenation)
whew, though for a minute you were referring to us… but we've got
Hyphenation, so it's got to be someone else…
Andrew,
. .whew. Nope it's not MSS . . .
8)
It _is_ hard to believe,though that a word processor of all things doesn't
have hyphenation capabilities. Hard to defend. Maybe in its first (beta)
release, but after _years_ of existence and many revisions?
Anyway, things like that on this platform are one of the reasons that Amiga
WP was such a hot item when it first came out. I think that everyone with
an Amiga who bought WP thought that all the benefits of dealing with a
mature MS DOS-oriented company was going to bring with it all the
advantages of that maturity.
And in many respects, we did get a sophisticated product. But the bugs were
awful, and . . .
heck we've beaten the WP thing to death already, many times over.
Rich
I think that the reason Word Perfect left the Amiga market had to do with
Commodore not wanting to pay WP several cool million to finish the WP 5.0
port.
Me? I ditched Word Perfect.
-makr=
– whappity whap whap… whap whap!!
Mark,
WordPerfect corp. has never considered the Amiga a viable business machine.
Their initial support for it was in its heyday when its future never shined
as bright.
While I don't have any problems with a machine that is only now finding its
niche in multi-media and creativity platforms, Big Blue programmers like WP
corp really irk me. My dollar goes to the hard working Amiga
developers…..
Angel Pagan
Angel,
When Word Perfect decided to stop developing for the Amiga, the company
PRESIDENT came onto this forum and discussed their decision with us. He
was here regularly for quite some time. Prior to their dropping the
product, one of their Amiga programmers was here every day to give
support. He loved the Amiga and worked to keep it going, but was needed
to write WP for Windows. It was their Amiga programmers who had the
Windows expertise, as I understood it at that time. They dropped a number
of platforms at the same time. I don't recall all the reasons, but it did
have to do with the number of copies being sold for the various computers,
and the cost of programmers to maintain the software for them. WP does
still offer us free telephone support whenever we need it, and I don't
know of many companies that give us free 800-number support for as many
years as we use the product.
Betty,
Actually is was a WP Sr. Vice President and one of the founding members of
Word Perfect, Corp, Pete Peterson. Pete has since left WP.
-sja
Where did Pete go? He was always kind enough to resond to messages/mail
sent him here in CIS. Seems like a real decent sort of guy.
// Michael
\X/ …on AutoPilot
Michael,
Not sure where he went. I just remember reading a news release several
months back stating that he'd left the company he help found. I think he's
still around in the WP Support Group forum here.
They're not saying they can't make money… they can, it's just that they
can make more money by not devoting time to the Amiga, and according to
economists, money not made is money lost (they don't get maximum
utility)…
I personally don't mind, we've gotten lots of calls from former Amiga WP
users looking to switch to something else…
John,
If all you need to do is bring in WordPerfect documents with formatting
intact, ProWrite 3.2 ships with a file conversion program that will convert
WordPerfect files into ProWrite files (it also supports many other word
processor formats, including RTF, which is very common in the MS-DOS
world).
James Bayless
New Horizons Software, Inc.
Aha, then it looks like you might get some money from me! Oddly enough,
cheap program that I use as my MS-DOS wordprocessor is called Professional
Write. A coincidence, do you think? Thanks for the information John