CompuServe Thread

#Anim7 or Anim8

42 messages in this thread
#33978From: Eugene KushnirAug 8, 1993 6:34 AM
Can anyone tell me if Anim-8 is considerably faster than anim-7? I have pro blems with the speed of my animations in anim-7 mode.
#33982From: Peter GreciAug 8, 1993 8:34 AM
I personally have had ALOT of trouble ATTEMPTING to use Anim-7 format and so stick to Anim-8, it may be INFERIOR but at least I don't get Artifacting Crud onscreen when doing Overscan anims. Till that problem is overcome I'll stick to Anim-8 and View 3.6
#33994From: Paul GerhardtAug 8, 1993 2:18 PM
Peter & Eugene, Anim 7 is supposed to be faster. Have you tryed ViewTek 1.05. It now plays OS DCTV anims fine on my 4000. On the 4000 I HAVE to specify a 30 fps playback or it will play back TOO fast. BTW Peter, make sure to hit the "c" key if you play any anims assemble in Dpaint or any other program that adds the two "looping" frames. Hitting the "c" key tells VT that it is a continious anim and GETS RID OF the "Crud" we were experiencing. …AutoPilot Engaged… -Paul-
#33998From: Eugene KushnirAug 8, 1993 2:47 PM
Is ViewTek 1.05 on this board? I can't find it (if it is here)?
#34076From: Paul GerhardtAug 10, 1993 8:11 AM
Oops I think I got it off Genie. I'll check my cataloge. If it is not here I'll upload it. Time passes. . . I just checked my cataloge and VT1.05 IS in the library here. Search for: VT105.LHA …AutoPilot Engaged… -Paul-
#34085From: Peter GreciAug 10, 1993 5:18 PM
Paul have you ordered the 3D ROM yet? I just spoke with John Foust who tells me he is down to 4 copies already and is awaiting his Stock from SIGGRAPH.
#34124From: Paul GerhardtAug 11, 1993 8:44 AM
No, I have too many other things (Brillance, Imagine 3.0, a CD rom drive!, a HD for Emplant) in line for my $$$. Besides if I had all that stuff I might be temped to use those models instead of building my own, and if I am going to get really good I HAVE to build, build, build! I should have a nice collection to contribute to the next edition so I get that one for free :). BTW LaCie is having a close out sale. I just ordered a LaCie 170meg Quantum external for $249. …AutoPilot Engaged… -Paul-
#34134From: Peter GreciAug 11, 1993 4:07 PM
Thanx for the info. My 3DROM came today and so far there's some TASTY models on there.
#34036From: Peter GreciAug 9, 1993 3:13 PM
The "c" key works sometime and other times it didn't so I gave up on Viewtwek/Anim-7, will try again with the new version of Viewtek. Thanx for the info
#34003From: Erik FlomAug 8, 1993 6:02 PM
Peter: Do what Paul suggests, and get Viewtek 1.05. It has fixed _all_ my problems playing back HAM8 anim7s on my 4000. Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34015From: Eugene KushnirAug 8, 1993 11:38 PM
What kind of speed are you getting on Anim7 ham8 anims? I have A1200 with an accelerator (030) and 4 megs of fast. I made few animations in Dpaint (AGA) in ham8 mode (640 by 400) and converted them to anim7 mode. The speed I got was real slow, about 10 frames a sec max. What do you think? Anyway I can increase the speed?
#34039From: Erik FlomAug 9, 1993 3:58 PM
I'm getting rates of 20-30 fps, but that's in LoResOverscanNoLace mode (376×240), and the deltas between frames are very low. I'd say your problem was the resolution you used. HiRes interlace is really overkill for HAM8 modes. You'll get much better animation rates if you shrink the 640×400 anim down to 320×200 (or400) – just make sure the images are anti-aliased when you scale them (this is an option in DPaint, I believe.) When you design your anims, try to make sure that the motion between frames is kept low. Avoid doing things like scrolling or panning the background, as this will wreak havoc with the delta compression scheme, and result in huge anims. It is best to have a few isolated elements moving over a stationary bkgd. While not very exciting, it _will_ playback smoothly. I have found that lores nonlaced anims look quite good, and are more than acceptable for most purposes. Since VHS has a maximum resolution of around 240×480 lines, any benefit of higher resolutions will be lost, and most people won't notice the fact that its non-interlaced. (They're more likely to notice a jerky playback speed. Which is what you'd get with a higher resolution animation.) Another benefit of LoRes NonLace anims is that they are generally much smaller, meaning you can get more frames in the same amount of space, and you _might_ even be able to use the new feature of Viewtek which allows you to play back anims direct from hard disk. (As an example, I created a 1000 frame HAM8 anim, and it only took 15MB of storage. While 15MB may seem big, 1000 frames is alot of animation! :^) Finally, make sure you're using Viewtek. Version 1.05 has fixed any problems with unlocked palettes you may have noticed. In closing, I'd like to ask for some feedback. Try these tips out, and tell me if you notice much of an improvemnt. I am finishing up an article on this very subject, and would like to make sure my tips actually _do_ work! :^) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34040From: Eugene KushnirAug 9, 1993 4:10 PM
Well, guess what? Your tips did help. I created a small animation in Dpaint in HAM8 320 by 400 (40 frames) It has a locked backround (from Scenery Animator) and a an object (plane) moving across the screen. I than converted the animation using Viewtek1.05 into Anim7 mode. When I played it back I the speed was about 30-35 fps (nice). I then hooked up my A1200 to the VCR and recorded the animation. When I palyed it back on VHS tape I did notice a difference between an interlaced animation and the one I created but it was very small. Thanks for you help, it helped. And by the way, Viewtek1.05 has major improvements over ViewTek 1.04, (especialy on oversc an anims)
#34068From: Erik FlomAug 10, 1993 3:31 AM
Many thanks for the prompt response! Glad to have been of help! Have fun! (BTW, what's the highest res you can get to run at 30 fps on your system? _And_, what kind of accelerator are you using? Thanks! Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34079From: Eugene KushnirAug 10, 1993 11:14 AM
I have M1230XA from microbotics, runing at 40 MHZ. The max rate I got so far was about 35 on HAM 8 anims in 320 by 200 with an animation of 30 fr
#34110From: Erik FlomAug 11, 1993 1:59 AM
Thanks for the response, but your message was cut off….. What sort of results do you get when there're big deltas between the frames? Thanks, Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34266From: Eugene KushnirAug 15, 1993 8:59 PM
When the deltas are big my animatin slows down, then if the deltas in the animation decreas the anim speeds up again.
#34283From: Erik FlomAug 16, 1993 12:23 PM
Do you have a rough estimate of when it starts to get noticable? (ie: 1/4 screen deltas at 320×200 HAM8 mode are too much or too little?) Thanks! Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34136From: dicAug 11, 1993 4:10 PM
I heard there a program called Animation: Stand, which makes pans, zooms, tilts, etc. for 2d anims. It's from Hash Enterprises, who make Will Vinton's Playmation nowadays. Do you know if it's still around? BTW, I'm STILL waiting for my free DPaint IV, and its made me furious! L8r
#34148From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 12, 1993 12:10 AM
Dic, Hash has been pretty much out of the Amiga market for some years now. The only way to get the program would be to find an old copy somewhere, or call Hash direct. Although Martin updated his softwares for some time after essentially quitting the market, there is no guarantee that the software will support AGA, or even WB 2.x //Jonathan, \\//via AutoPilot
#34175From: Steve J. PetersAug 12, 1993 9:58 PM
I don't know where you got your information but Hash Enterprises is still in the Amiga market. The latest version of their software is called Playmation V 1.48 and is available on Amiga, IBM, and MAC. They have a BBS for support (206)574-5619 . Steve Peters
#34220From: Jonathan HirschmanAug 14, 1993 12:50 AM
Steve, They are not in the Amiga market for what we were discussing, which were Hash's modular animation products. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. //Jonathan, \\//via AutoPilot
#34167From: Erik FlomAug 12, 1993 3:24 PM
I got a demo of Animtion Stand _years_ ago from Hash enterprises. That's the last I heard of those guys until a few months ago, when the relabled Playmation came out… I've as yet to use Playmation, so I wouldn't know where to have you call. (Check out one of their ads, maybe?) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34189From: Paul ToalAug 13, 1993 5:30 AM
Article? Article? The kind people read? –Paul < Motorola Inside >
#34238From: Erik FlomAug 14, 1993 5:34 PM
Yes, I'm doing a story on Anim hints and tips for the standard Amiga display modes. Got any hints or tips you'd like to share with the world? :^) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34245From: Peter GreciAug 15, 1993 12:46 AM
Quick Tip—–Don't bet on the Races(Stolen from the Flinstones) sorry couldn't resist. A good BASIC tip is Learn about Lighting before going Crazy animating.
#34284From: Erik FlomAug 16, 1993 12:23 PM
I don't have much room to fill. If I started getting deeply into composition techniques, it could be a multi-part story! :^)
#34295From: Peter GreciAug 16, 1993 3:55 PM
ahhhh, well good luck on the writing assignment. Mayhaps thou shoudls't look into writing for VTU, or is this who you ALREADY are doing THIS writing for????? Might help thee thru thy Lulls in Business eh wot?
#34322From: Erik FlomAug 17, 1993 1:03 PM
Yeah, at this point, I'll do (almost) anything for money! :^)
#34259From: Anthony RamirezAug 15, 1993 2:36 PM
>Yes, I'm doing a story on Anim hints and tips for the standard Amiga >display modes. I noticed that you posted results of only HAM8s but is the story you are writing going to include HAM6,16,8, ect..?
#34285From: Erik FlomAug 16, 1993 12:23 PM
I _will_ mention other modes, especially with respect to ECS machines. In most cases though, I've found that the best results arise from using HAM modes exclusively. The limited color resolution of the non-AGA amigas was always a major problem. The problem with using 16 color mode is that by the time the image is dithered, you end up with giant anims and lots of data to push around. With a non-dithered HAM anim, the individual frames are smaller w/o the dithering, and the deltas between frames are dramatically reduced. Using HAM allows a higher frame rate, and possibly even interlace mode (if the deltas are small) at 30fps – the higher frame rate, and smoothness of playback is more important than sharpness anyway. Now, if Ben would ship IM R/t, maybe I could try creating some nice looking 16 color thumbnail anims. (:^) But, as it stands my recommendation will be to steer clear of anything but HAM modes for most purposes. Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34360From: Anthony RamirezAug 18, 1993 7:23 PM
>I _will_ mention other modes, especially with respect to ECS machines. Good to hear. I can't stand it when authors basically ignore entire markets simply because they are bias. If you can I am sure lots of people can use advice that can be used regardless of the mode or chips they have. >Now, if Ben would ship IM R/t, maybe I could try creating some nice >looking 16 color thumbnail anims. (:^) I keep forgetting to send in my warranty card so I can upgrade to R/T, I think I am going to do that right now. :^)
#34364From: Erik FlomAug 18, 1993 9:51 PM
Well, don't get your hopes too high, I do recommend a _minumum of several WB RAM & a hard drive. :^) Keep On Toastin' Erik Flom
#34368From: john meggieAug 18, 1993 11:18 PM
Erik, I agree that non-interlaced animations will play faster, but isn't interlacing required when laying an animation to video tape. I understood that if non-interlaced is used that the resultant video will not be stable when used for dubbing later on. Could a program like Lacer be used on HAM anims? Appreciate you lending your advice.
#34375From: Erik FlomAug 19, 1993 12:42 PM
Hmmmm, I hadn't considered the prolem with dubbing the anim output. First generation playback always looks OK, but I bet it _would_ look etter if you used something like 'Lacer'. I'll have to experiment with that – I'm not sure if Viewtek would over-ride that or not. Sorry I can't offer any help, but thanks for a good question! (More later…..)
#34037From: Peter GreciAug 9, 1993 3:13 PM
Will try it, my Local BBS has Viewtek 1.05 but I hesitated to DL it. /s
#34042From: Vance SchowalterAug 9, 1993 5:05 PM
Hi, Peter! Are you upgrading to Imagine 3.0 soon? I plan to send in my money around the end of this month. I can hardly wait to see what Impulse's version of 'Bones' is like! Not to mention all of the other goodies such as 'Particles'! ViewTek 1.05 seems to be working better than before, so give it another shot. -= Vance =- Image Master Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster!
#34086From: Peter GreciAug 10, 1993 5:18 PM
I called Impulse a few weeks ago and PRE ORDERED Imagine 3.0 for the Amiga and for the IBM/Clone. I'm Anxious to get it as soon as possible. I also ordered a 3D ROM from John Foust Today for $214.95 including Next Day Air shipping. Can't wait to get that CD of 3D Models. I'm sure in the near future the price will drop but for now I WANT IT. Just started a Toy selling Business to help pay for my Computerized TOYS
#34090From: Vance SchowalterAug 10, 1993 9:17 PM
Going to give Macey's some competition with the toys, eh? *8) Being married, it'll be awhile before I can get extra toys like a CD-ROM drive, etc. I'll just have to bide my time with what I have, for now. -= Vance =- Image Master Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster!
#34135From: Peter GreciAug 11, 1993 4:07 PM
I was lucky enuff to get my CDROM for "FREE", when I bought my A3000 CBM was running a Promo where you got a "FREE" CDTV. Macy's competition, naaaaaaa, Most of my goodies are Collectable toys for Adults not for kids hehehehehehe
#34137From: Vance SchowalterAug 11, 1993 5:17 PM
Well, at least you're equipped to produce your own commercials… "C'mon down, to Honest Peter's Adult Collectible Toys Emporium!" heh heh *8) -= Vance =- Image Master Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster!
#34210From: Peter GreciAug 13, 1993 2:35 PM
By Adult I mean most kids wouldn't Pay the prices for these goodies not that they were Sexually oriented. Thats not a Bad idea tho, have a 13" TV and a VCR playing Animations/Commercials to attract folks to the Table.