#TOPAS vs 3DS
24 messages in this thread
Has anyone here used TOPAS or made a comparison between TOPAS and 3DS?
I'm getting ready to take a leap into animation and I just wanted to
find out what the real users think.
Although it's almost like comparing apples to oranges, some
things that come immediately to my mind are that 3-D Studio has some
interesting third-party support, which gives it a lot of versatility,
but, Topas is an older program, and a LOT more stable. 3-D Studio is
pretty bugged-out, and will bite you from time to time, and that can
really get in your way. In as much as there's a new version on the
way, with supposed fixes, it's vaporware for us now. It may also come
with it's own new bag of bugs. Topas, being an older program, has
evolved into a pretty intuitive program to use, and create. 3-D
Studio, in my view, is a royal pain to create things in. The third
party support for 3-D Studio, however, allows for some neat tricks
that just can't be done in Topas (yet). These modules give it a
slight edge in animation. Just some quick thoughts on these programs,
hope this helps.
Excuse me? Bugged out? I could list a dozen ex-Topas users here who
would SWEAR that 3DS is MUCH more solid than Topas. This is your
opinion, and you're entitled to it, but it's not shared by many.
Well, as I said, 3-D Studio, in my opinion, is a royal pain to
create things in. I find Topas far more intuitive. I work too hard in
3-D Studio just to make simple shapes. Hopefully, 3-D Studio will
live up to it's image of a premier solid modeling program in the next
release. It doesn't on this one, that's for sure.
Ultimately, everyone finds their own place under the 3-D sun.
I offered my viewpoint to the gentleman asking for opinions on these
two programs. He has to make a decision on what he hears.
Unfortunately, he cannot "try before he buys" either one of these
programs, although he at least take a course on 3-D Studio, as I did,
which I guess is the closest thing to that. I would suggest that he
indeed does take that course, and decide if it's for him. I hope
whatever he decides on will serve him well.
At this time in history, it seems as though all 3D programs are racing
for quality rendering. In my opinion, they all do a decent job but
3DS is the best under $10,000. I also agree that not only 3DS, but
all 3D programs will probably have to spend more time with their
modelers in future releases. If a project takes too long to design,
pretty pictures won't finish the job. I don't agree that 3DS is a
'pain', but I will go along that 3DS as well as many other 3D
programs needs to focus on modeling in the future. It is refreshing to
see that someone really prefers Topas over 3DS. You are one of the
first to say that!(g). I think you will find by sniffing around that
most professional houses that used to be TOPAS are switching to 3DS
and that most new houses are starting with 3DS. As soon as TOPAS gets
competitive with pricing, maybe there will be an argument. But at
almost twice the cost and with fewer features, it is really out of
the question unless someone has money to burn.
everything I've heard from topas users would indicate the exact
opposite to what you describe. Topas is said to be difficult to use,
3ds easy. The rendering quality of 3ds and expandibility is certainly
better. 3dsr2 is not overly buggy (all software has some bugs) and
never rushed to release, unlike other software out there. The list of
ex-topas converts seems to be growing all the time.
Phil, >>> it's vaporware for us now <<< 3D Studio R 3 will be
shipping in two weeks. Mid-Sept. The latest.
James, Autodesk has announced an early-October release date for R3…
not mid-September.
>> James, Autodesk has announced an early-October release date for
R3… not mid-September. <<
I Know…I Know…. I just answered Greg on this.. as I mentioned I
don't know what the heck I was thinking except that I better start
getting more sleep.
Thanks for your input Phil. Another difference is the price, and I the CD-ROM
that comes with 3DS.
-Brett
As I've said in other messages here, you would do well for
yourself to take a 3-D Studio course, if it's available where you
live. This way, you can decide if it's going to be for you. If it
isn't, it'll only cost you the course. If it is, you'll havs a head
start in understanding the program. Whatever your decision, enjoy!
Thanks for the tip Phil. Though I do prefer to learn on my own. It'll
probably take me longer.
-Brett
As a Topas user for many years, I would say that 3DStudio beats Topas
hands down. Topas has alot of quirks and problems that don't exist in
Studio, and they simply aren't doing very well in the market place
because of it. At the moment Crystal Graphics is seemingly playing
Catch up with the product since AT&T dropped it from their bag of
tricks.
It probably isn't the best thing in the world to ask for a comparison
on the 3DStudio forum, because ALL of your replies are going to be a
certain amount tainted. However, as an end user who has a relatively
intimate knowledge of Topas and 3DStudio as well as Wavefront and
Alias, it is my humble opinion that there isn't anything this side of
the workstation environment that compares to 3D Studio as a
professional animation tool.
I'm not a dealer for Adesk and I don't have any vested interest in the
company. I am however an extremely discriminating end user with the
funds to purchase any hardware/software that I desire. After years of
constant evaluation and work, I can guarantee you that you won't go
wrong buying 3D Studio.
As for another forum members comments that 3D Studio is buggy. That's
a completely wrong response. I work with the program daily in a
computer environment so harsh that we hit virtually every kink known
to man, 3D Studio is "THE" most stable program on the PC platform.
That's why we switched to 3DS after having a $150,000+ investment in
copies of Topas.
If you'd like to discuss the programs further, leave me an e-mail and
I'll give you an 800 number to call me at.
Paul, consider yourself quite lucky to not run into the bugs
that I've run into, so far, with 3-D Studio. I'm constantly running
into shape formation problems in the lofter, as well as problems with
the boolean operations, two of the more useful tools in the program.
I'm also constantly annoyed by a migrating snap, and there are all
sorts of little quirks like that here and there that are annoying, at
best. Other things that bother me are purely personal, involving the
overall design of the program, which I think is pretty obtrusive and
time consuming. They all add up to a program that I approach with
caution when using.
If Topas has major bugs, I've yet to be bitten by them.
Granted, I don't use the program a lot, and they may yet have a
chance to get me (the 3-D Studio bugs ALWAYS get me!). Personally, I
find this program FAR MORE intuitive than 3-D Studio, but, again,
it's merely a matter of taste. As I said in another message, Mr.
Simpson would do well to take a 3-D Studio course, as I did, to
decide if it's for him, or not. Well worth the $500, or so, for good
insight into the program
As I said, consider yourself quite lucky if you haven't run
into such problems, however, to say that it's a "completely wrong
response" to call 3-D Studio buggy`is to do this fellow a disservice.
I suppose one has to assume that, if you can live with these bugs,
than it's a great program. If the program cost $500-1000, I wouldn't
even complain. At $3000, however, the bugs, and various
idiosyncrasies of the program (no undo, no color coding of objects,
no high-end rendering, no use of open pologons, no pliability of
objects, having to jump all over the place to get things done,
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera), are conpletely inexcusable, IN MY
VIEW. I'm glad, however, that it works well for you. Enjoy it.
As with any program it helps to equate yourself thoroughly with the
program.
The program is in my opinion the more intuitive program of the two
being compared. The quirks that you mentioned could just as easily be
a lack of operator knowledge as program problems.
You said you don't use Topas alot, I used it 80-100 hours a week for
years. I now use Studio to the same degree. I often teach 3DS to
military installations, and in the opinion of virtually everyone I've
ever taught, (hundreds of people) 3D Studio has the lowest learning
curve and highest productivity level of any package. I know of close
to 50 SGI workstations that sit idle locally because the military
operators love 3DS and hate the associated learning curve of
Wavefront.
The simple fact is that 3D Studio came into a market of $10,000 PC
programs and single handedly took over the market, while
simultaneously causing all of the competition to cut their prices by
2/3's or more.
As to your comments, R3 has color coding of objects, there has always
been an undo in the form of a hold button, the renderer in R3 is
unmatched in performance/speed, etc. etc. All you need to do is know
what the program expects and perform your operations accordingly.
This is an animation package not AI software.
I could obviously go on and on …… but suffice it to say that 3DS
controls the PC based market, and grabs a larger share on a daily
basis. There is a definative reason for that fact.
Well, I sincerely hope v.3.0 attacks the shortcomings of this
version. I don't consider HOLD undo. It's HOLD. If you're really
caught up in what you're doing in the program, it's easy to forget to
HOLD. If you mess up, it's all over. Other modeling programs have
UNDO, there's no excuse for it not being in 3-D Studio. I will add
here that, even with UNDO, HOLD would still have it's place. The two
are DIFFERENT.
The bugs I mentioned are definitely bugs, not operator error.
These problems were discussed in class, and indeed, identified.
Again, I hope they are remedied in the next version.
As far as learning curves, well, it will be different for
everyone. Perhaps I'm the oddball on this one, but, so far, I find
Topas far more intuitive. However, if most people find it easier to
use 3-D Studio, well, go for it. Remember, I was merely giving some
opinions to someone who was asking for them on these two programs.
3-D Studio does, indeed, have a lot going for it, I would just like
to see some of these problems addressed. I also stated them as I did
because the fellow asking seemed to be approaching this from an end
user stance. If his employer were paying for the program, it wouldn't
matter too much that it's a $3000 program with some annoying bugs,
now would it? Learning curves are one thing, object generation is
another. Some things are done a lot more simply in Topas, such as
surface revs. 3-D Studio's inability to work with open polygons, IN
MY VIEW, is a detriment. What can be done "on a heartbeat" in Topas
with surf rev, can take quite a while in the lofter. This affects
transparent objects primarily in 3-D Studio. If nothing else, working
with open polys is plain old convienient, and I hope version 3.0 of
3-D Studio will be up to task of handling them. Little things like
this count. It's the combination of all the little things, plus the
bugs mentioned that really bother me about what should be a killer
program, this 3-D Studio. I didn't sign up for the course for mere
curiousity. It struck me as a great program. I hope it becomes that,
then I'll reconsider "selling it' to my company.
Obviously we are at two different ends of the spectrum on this one.
I only have a couple of questions regarding your use of the two
programs.
A.) Do you or have you actually owned 3DStudio and used it on a daily
basis, and B.) Do you or have you actually owned Topas and used it on
a daily basis? From some of your responses, it's unclear to me
whether you're responding from a "cash spent/months invested"
standpoint, or whether your speaking from a "company owns it/I
occassionally use it" standpoint. I think in making a comparison it
helps to have rigorously used both programs over an extended period
of time in a deadline oriented environment.
If you have a copy of Studio and Topas both sitting on your shelf at
home, then I'd could probably arrange to show you a true production
environment running both programs. In sitting a thoroughly trained
Topas animator down directly beside a similarly trained 3DS user and
watching them work, I'm confident that 9 out of 10 people in the
viewing audience would go the 3DS way.
I'm basing my opinion on the fact that I personally own multiple
copies of both programs and have tens of thousands of hours on both
programs. I have often had new employees say that they wish there was
an undo in the Editor of Studio, but I sort of approach it from the
standpoint that if you design from a knowledgable standpoint, and
"hold" the scene if you're trying something you're not sure of, you
really don't require an undo. After all we're talking about
professional tools here. As to the surfrev, maybe Topas is better at
wine glass design, but the fact is that a trained user can revolve
any surface in a matter of seconds in Studio, and in complex scene
design 3DS seems to be the choice of the masses.
IMHO Feature for feature, 3DStudio wins hands down, and with every
revision of Topas yielding a handful of new features versus every new
release of Studio having hundreds of new features, I don't see the
competition strengthening it's already weak battle for the platform.
Not meaning to jump all over you, or anything, but… as I mentioned
some time ago, I spent SEVERAL hours (days worth) at a high end
animation house that uses primarily a $40K version of Wavefront, and
was surprised by the revelation: bugs, crashes, clunky user
interface (as far as I'm concerned) you name it. There is even a
binder notebook devoted to listing bugs. And Composer crashed the
SGI it was running on twice. I still think Wavefront is incredible,
and if I had the market and resources, would run out and buy a copy
tommorow. I'm not quite sure your standards for $3000 software are
very realistic.
Well, As I've said elsewhere, I think the fellow asking for
opinions seems to be approaching this from the point of an end user.
Even if not, I don't compare 3-D Studio to $10,000 programs, I look
at it as what it is. At it's price, I find it inexcusable to have, IN
MY VIEW, such shortcomings. Of course, different strokes for
different folks, others may not be bothered by the things I
mentioned. Hey, go for it. As for me, well, I'll wait to see what the
next version brings. I'll leave the jury out on that version 'till it
comes.
Uh, Phil, I believe that two of the bugs you mention are NOT bugs, but
rather your lack of knowledge of how the program works. Please don't
describe program behavior that you don't understand as a bug.
Well, considering that the instructor in class, as well as some
experienced students, agreed that they are bugs, I don't think it's user error.
I'm not one to complain about something when there's nothing wrong.
Thanks for your input Paul. I value getting answers from someone who has used
both of the packages.
i use both of the programs and topas 4.2 sits on the shelf, you won't
find anything better than 3dstudio for the money. i know because i
have tryed everything outthere and i live and breath in 3dstudio.
there is just too many things to write down here why, how come?, it
does this , it does that. trust me <g> you will love 3dstudio.
Thanks for your input Sherwood. It looks like 3DS is the animator of choice.
-Brett