CompuServe Thread

#Out of sequence fossils

8 messages in this thread
#142326From: Jim FergusonAug 19, 1994 9:58 AM
"Do fossils from one time period ever appear preserved in sediment of a later time period as the rock in which they were originally present erodes or dissolves and is redeposited as sediment? Or is the erosion process so complete that this doesn't happen." I should answer that question the way I answer my students' questions, "We'll have to find out the answer to that one. Where do you think we could start?" But I'll hazard a speculation. A fossil might, through erosion, be transported lower to an older formation, but such out of sequence fossils would probably be easily recognized as such. Fossils are unlikely to "wash down" to younger layers because the younger sediments overlay the older ones. Only in an area where a tremendous upheaval has occurred and inverted the stratigraphy (like the rim rocks around Meteor Crater, AZ) or where faulting has aligned the sequence of adjacent rocks out of order would you be able to find older fossils washing down into younger fossil beds. That's my best guess but if someone knows more (which should be quite a few people here) I'd like to know the answer too. jf
#142352From: Greg LadenAug 19, 1994 1:42 PM
>> Fossils are unlikely to "wash down" to younger layers because the younger sediments overlay the older ones. Only in an area where a tremendous upheaval has occurred and inverted the stratigraphy (like the rim rocks around Meteor Crater, AZ) or where faulting has aligned the sequence of adjacent rocks out of order would you be able to find older fossils washing down into younger fossil beds. << My wife and her former advisor are both taphonomists and have studied this issue. Also, I've worked on sites relevant to this question as well. Fossils from earlier time periods very often end up in later strata. For example, in the western rivers, like the Snake and it's tributaries, pleistocene fossils are today eroding out of the banks and being redeposited in sand bars that also contain bones of recently dead critters. So, for example, extinct camel bones are being buried together with regular cow bones! As you suggest, it is often easy to tell when this happens. For example, the fossils are rocks, not bones, so they are eroded, scraped, oriented, etc as rocks and not as bones, and thus show up as being very different. The bones that I have found fossilized from two dramatacially different time periods were very obviously fossilized in different ways, and although it was difficult to work out (took years of research and a bunch of geologists, well, really one or two really smart geologists and about a half hour, but those guys didn't show up for the frist two years <g>) to figure out the exact (more or less) sequence of events. Those fossils were from about 2.5 million years and about 6,000 years in age! Cheers, GTL – Greg Laden, Written 19-Aug-1994 @ 14:11:14 Using: Windows NavCIS PRO 1.25
#142402From: Jim FergusonAug 19, 1994 9:57 PM
Oops. I think I forgot erosion is an ongoing process. Thanks for straightening me out. "…but those guys didn't show up for the frist two years…." Sort of like how the scissors are always in the last place you look for them. jf
#142427From: Lanny R. ReamAug 19, 1994 11:41 PM
There are some unusuall occurrences such as mentioned in Greg Laden's message, but generally fossils to do not get redeposited out of sequence. Techinically they oculd, older rocks are continuously being uplifted and eroded away and redposited as younger sediments. There is one big problem though–this tends to destroy the fossils. Probably the biggest exception would be if there is rapid erosion and cobbles and bolders of the fossil bearing sediment are carried off and deposited as a conglomerate (or breccia), this would be evident. Lanny
#142530From: Greg LadenAug 20, 1994 6:08 PM
A little expansion and further comment: >> There are some unusuall occurrences such as mentioned in Greg Laden's message, but generally fossils to do not get redeposited out of sequence.>> Right. It is especially important to note what we mean by "out of sequence". It is very very hard to get a deposit to form where the fossils are inverted systematically across several layers. Getting a few older ones mixed up with newer ones happens now and then, and is expected to be quite obvious most of the time. But a true inversion is extraordinarily rare. Can't think of any real good examples at the moment, as a matter of fact. << Techinically they oculd, older rocks are continuously being uplifted and eroded away and redposited as younger sediments. > Right again. This is especially true in certain environments, such as a forming rift valley (where we had so much trouble in Zaire, and as happens now and then in the East African rift as well). In the rift valleys, you can get sedimentary basons formd on grabens that are faulted, so there is, say, half the graben sitting up hill pouring stuff down onto the surface of the other half, down faulted, in a lake or stream bed. But again, this is obvious when it happens, fossils get destroyed in the process as you say, and it does not result in a true inversion. Cheers, GTL – Greg Laden, Written 20-Aug-1994 @ 19:01:50 Using: Windows NavCIS PRO 1.25
#142516From: Ed Fisher/PAAug 20, 1994 3:13 PM
<< Fossils are unlikely to "wash down" to younger layers because the younger sediments overlay the older ones. Only in an area where a tremendous upheaval has occurred and inverted the stratigraphy (like the rim rocks around Meteor Crater, AZ) or where faulting has aligned the sequence of adjacent rocks out of order would you be able to find older fossils washing down into younger fossil beds. >> I guess I didn't make clear my term "washing down". I was attempting to describe a process in which, for example, fossils from an exposed Pennsylvanian bed would be freed from the matrix by erosion or solution and re-deposited more or less intact along with other sediments into a bed of Permian or later age. I didn't mean "washing down" in the sense of "up" and "down" vertically, but rather in the sense of older material being eroded and "washing down" as sediment which would be incorporated into younger beds. Picture a conglomerate of a given age containing within its pebbly matter transported fossils from the older eroding highlands.
#142531From: Greg LadenAug 20, 1994 6:09 PM
>> I guess I didn't make clear my term "washing down". I was attempting to describe a process in which, for example, fossils from an exposed Pennsylvanian bed would be freed from the matrix by erosion or solution and re-deposited more or less intact along with other sediments into a bed of Permian or later age. … Picture a conglomerate of a given age containing within its pebbly matter transported fossils from the older eroding highlands. << Ed: This is *EXACTLY* what happened to us in Zaire. An ancient fossil bed, roughly 2.5 million years old, was partly exposted and rubblized by a stream bed. The stream stopped cutting down just at this point, shifing it's channel and leaving a terrace that intersected perfectly with the fossil bed. Then, newer bones and stuff were deposited in among the older fossils. The sediment re-cemented, looking a lot like (at first glance) the original bed, owing to the presence of the appropriate materials for reformation. The deposit is indeed a conglomerate, but it is cemented with materail very similar to the rubble bits of the ancient rock… Similar, but not exact. Some 6,000 years ago or so a very unusual volcano exploded (Katwe, Uganda) leaving a distinctive trace of certain elements througout the region. One of the main tests of the hypotheses that the recemented conglomerate was recent was to search for this mineral in the conglomerate componants (not found there) and the conglomerate matrix (unfortunately, found there in abundance!). So the answer is, yes, it does happen. But it can be detected, and at least in this case, we knew something was strange the whole time, but it just took us a while to figger it all out! Cheers, GTL – Greg Laden, Written 20-Aug-1994 @ 19:06:27 Using: Windows NavCIS PRO 1.25
#142634From: Bill Webb /CAAug 21, 1994 2:53 PM
Another example: During the Jurassic the West Coast (North America) was subjected to much folding and twisting, jumbling formations of varying earlier ages, including some fossil bearing strata. This is the Franciscan melange. Within this much disturbed terrain occasional, evidently Cambrian, fossils turn up, mixed in with much later sediments. It is not difficult to realize what happened, however, and I am unaware of this ever causing confusion as to the ages of the fossils. B.