#EVO-Hi8 Quality
31 messages in this thread
I need help I can't seem to get the image quality I expect from my EVO9650
I am using P630HMbq tapes, have it hardwired to my Targa+ by way of S-video, am
using the buffer with 24bit TGA's and I seem to have too much noise in the
video.
1. How can I tell if I am get the optimum video quality that Hi8 will allow
2. Any suggestions
3. Is S-VHS any better
I need to dub a VHS so a perspective client can see a mockup of his logo and
the video quality sucks rocks, I used to work in TV using 3/4 and it looks way
better then the crappy picture I'm getting on my Hi8. I have a PVM video
monitor and I have looked at a VHS at my former station as a test and its not
just my viewing EQ. or my imagination. I cant help but feel that I'm missing
something here because I think I could get better video on straight VHS
Don't know what your missing but here we have an EVO-9800, a BVU-950 and a
VO5850 for comparison and the Hi8 first gen looks as good as the BVU. Better
than the 5850. Second gen Hi8 its all over, though. I have SVHS too and it's
about equal to the Hi8 but it has less dropout problems.
Want to try a real shocker. Edit using betaSP all day and then come to a good
VHS movie from Blockbuster. You'll think you'll need an appointment with the
eyedoctor. <G>
Time for a Laser Disc player, Don!<g>
-Alan (should help a little, anyway…)
>>> Time for a Laser Disc player, Don!<g> <<<
Speaking of which.
Has anyone seen the latest "Media Magic" Computers In Science & Art 1994
Catalog???Best Damn collection of Computer anmation Videos and CD's I've ever
seen! They have a 1-800 number it's 882-8284.
Tell em' you need a look at their catalog!
Murph'
I wish, I wish, but I was all set to buy one a year ago and the only LD
rental store went out of business. I killed the idea. I do have a 72 inch
front projector TV and a 1500 watt sound system though! Been considering a
satellite dish but no LD for now. Need a rental store first!
*Sheesh*, I hope someone out there smartens up soon and starts renting LD's!
Then you could have some serious fun with rented movies, especially considering
all the nice equipment you have!
Hope y'all had a nice vacation, Don.
-Alan
Yea I was disappointed as I really wanted one but could not justify buying the
discs.
The vacation was great. We all went to Universal Studios, Disney World for 5
days. I really got to know my new camcorder. It really surprised me as to the
quality of these little Handycams. It has a "Steady Shot" feature that makes
handhold shooting a breeze. I shot 12 hours of shows and rides. Worked on my
in camera editing technique. It needed some work and by the end of the week I
got some pretty good looking routines. I attempted to perfect a style of quick
zooms/switch pans/ and zoom-pans while rolling continuously to maintain the
dialog and music continuity. I was able to achieve an almost 3-4 camera look
to my stuff after much practice. I would then shoot some inserts to cover over
any bad moves that would later be inserted during a very fast edit job.
Disney sure is the place to go to work on this type of project.
Leave it to you to develop camera techniques during a vacation, Don.<g>
I've tried to do a little of that in-camera editing myself. Some of it came out
OK, I guess. I think I probably use the fader too much! It kills me the way it
fades to *white* instead of black…
-Alan
Only use fades to black or white at the end of a major sequence. It looks
silly if used in the middle of a performance. I don't use special effects in
the camera anyway. Just work with camera angles and swish pans for effects.
Fades to white are nice when the next scene has a bunch of white that coming
out of white works well with. I like white fades for weddings for example.
>>Only use fades…at the end of a major sequence<<
Of course, that is the only tasteful way of doing it!<g> It was a kind of a
joke, really. Don'tcha just die when you these "over-transitioned" wedding,
etc. videos? It's amazing how much you can learn from watching TV and noting
the director's/editor's choices for transition types as they apply to various
scene changes. I think the first thing I learned was to keep it clean and
simple as possible. I'd absolutely LOVE to try to edit a video/film production
and strive for a simple, tasteful editing technique, much like mixing
(producing) a final mix for a musical recording. It would be a great experience
and I'd learn so much, especially if I had you to critique my work. Maybe one
day…
-Alan
<< Don'tcha just die when you these "over-transitioned" wedding, etc. videos?
>>
Cut, Fade, Dissolve….that's all you need <g>.
BILL
A video production seminar I attended sometime back had these guidlines for a
good production:
90% cuts
7% dissolves
2% fadeouts
1% all other effects including wipes & mosaics
Of course this is over generalized but you get the point.
<<new camera>>
It's good to hear that you took full advantage of your vacation time. My
camera technique really could use some Disney World practice too! <g>
I shot some building exteriors around here last week and I was amazed to see
the difference between good and bad composition. I shot a certain alleyway
from two similar angles, but each composed slightly different. One used a
wider camera angle from a point fairly close, the other was more distant but
with a narrow field of view. They looked like two completely different areas!
I've learned that I can shoot terrible video as easily as good video unless I
pay close attention to every shot. It's very easy to fall into poor
composition and poor camera angles. The best way to avoid these mistakes is
through practice. I envy the fact that you had a fun place to experiment!
– Dave
Yes! Disney is a great place to experiment and learn. The advantage is I
didn't have to search for interesting subject matter so I could just shoot. I
usually follow the basics of composition and lighting rules and the rest falls
into place. Since I shoot betacam at least 3 times per week I find it hard to
fall into really bad shooting habits. Most of the stuff I shoot is for
editing, though which is completely different than attempting to produce a
viewable, form of video entertainment from the camera original.
>> Since I shoot betacam at least 3 times per week I find it hard to fall
>> into really bad shooting habits.
I'm coming from the opposite side. I started at the consumer end, and with my
dive into computer graphics, have been moving toward shots geared to be editted
into video productions. I'm far from good, but I can get by if I shoot extra
tape. I usually get lucky enough to get shots that work <g>!
I work with some excellent video studios (and their full-time editors) for my
post-production, and they can really make a difference integrating so-so source
material. I've learned a lot about video during the last 1 1/2 years, but I
don't have the time to get as good as these guys (or the money to be as well
equipped! <G>) My efforts are better spent on the animations.
>> I didn't have to search for interesting subject matter so I could just
>> shoot.
I had a blast at Universal Studios with my 35mm camera for the same reason. The
"back-lot" area had some very interesting scenes that allowed me to experiment
with lighting and composition. I only wish I had brought some black and white
film to play with.
– Dave
I use an EVO9650 and find the quality outstanding (as long as you keep the
generations to a min). I have found however that I have to start with a very
low-saturated image because saturation and contrast will increase rapidly.
Try to run all your frames through Photoshop's VIDEO -NTSC color check. Usually
rendered files have lots of "illegal" saturation that will bleed horribly when
tranferred to video. Sometimes it is neccesary to lower saturation even more
than the NTSC check does. Also check for features in you rendering that might
be creating "moire" patterns because they are beyond the resolution of video
(closely spaced lines or textures that interfere at a certain frequency). Hope
this helps
-Arturo
That's it a moire patterns and croma crawl. How do I compensate? I do not
have photo shop, is there a way to do it in 3DS? I use the NTSC Check and a
Gama setting of 2.20. is there a way to lower the saturation on an entire
image(tga). I knew it was a color problem I need a Wave Form and a TBC to fix
the croma Levels now. but is there a "shotgun" rule of thumb to follow that
might help. Things are starting to click and I need to get this NTSC Quality
thing under control as most of my work, to begin with , will be NTSC stuff. I
heard that it also helps to ground all of you video EQ. together, How do I go
about this?
Richard,
<< is there a way to do video color checking in 3DS? >>
You can do this with RENDERER/SETUP/OPTIONS. And you have the option of
flagging the "illegal" pixels or corecting them.
Mark Yankee
I am using it already, it maybe that I am just spoiled be the image quality out
of my targa board and into my PVM
<<That's it a moire patterns and croma crawl. How do I compensate?>>
Moire patterns are usually caused by closely spaced lines or any pattern that
falls below the resolution of the NTSC image. So the only way to prevent this
would be to avoid texture maps or model features that cause this effect
(blinds, shutters etc.) This worsens of course if you are moving your camera
across or in diagonal to the offending surfaces. As for croma crawl if the
images are already rendered all I can say is get a program like Photoshop,
Photostyler or DeBabelizer on the Mac (which will batch-process a sequence of
images). Their plug-in filters will even help you correct some of the moire
causing patterns.
Of course a TBC will help you get the best possible quality and trap any
instability in the signal which will greatly contribute to reducing those
problems you have. Even an inexpensive video-amplifier with some gain and color
control will help quite a bit.
Good luck,:>
-Arturo
<< Try to run all your frames through Photoshop's VIDEO -NTSC color check.
Usually rendered files have lots of "illegal" saturation that will bleed
horribly when tranferred to video. Sometimes it is neccesary to lower
saturation even more than the NTSC check does. >>
Arturo,
3DS3 has video color checking and correcting built in, just to let you know.
Mark Yankee
<<3DS3 has video color checking and correcting built in,>>
Yes, thanks you for reminding me. The problem is I usually render with that
option off and later if the material has to go to video for a demo or else I
have to run every frame through Photoshop.
-Arturo
Hi, Richard,
I recommend Y-NR setting is "Very Low", C-NR setting for "High". This would be
the best setting from Targa(+) board from my experience. And please be careful
of D-sub 9pin to S cable (same as Truvision CA-6 type). Sometimes S-out though
the cable increases the Chroma delay. CA-6 is fine.
The best quality is to use RGB option board (EVBK-65) for EVO-9650. Direct RGB
from Targa to this board will give you the best quality.
Thanks to the Y-NR, C-NR and RGB board, for my eyes, any SVHS can't beat the
EVO-9650's animation quality (even SVO-9600Pro).
I hope this info. will be any help.
Thanks,
Koy Sampei
Senior Product Manager /CRVdisc
Sony Electronics, Inc.
Thanks Koichi,
>> Thanks to Y-NR, C-NR and RGB board, for my eyes, any SVHS can't beat the
EVO-9650's animation quality… <<
You've confirmed what I always suspected but could never corroborate. Don't
want to put you out on a limb, but would you say that this holds true for the
AG-7750 as well? Or does the Farouja TBC give it an edge?
John
Hi, John,
In terms of the Video S/N, EVO-9650's C-NR shows the greatest performance for
Video Buffer board (such as Targa+, NuVista) output. On the other hand, C-NR
will damage the live camera footage with active motion.
I strongly recommend to check side-by-side by yourself, or by Video S/N meters
to see how it differs. I think that is the best and fair way to confirm this
rather than said by manufacturer.
Thanks,
Koy Sampei
Senior Product Manager /CRVdisc
Sony Electronics, Inc.
Koichi,
>> I think that is the best and fair way to confirm this rather than said by
manufacture. <<
I understand. Thankyou for your insights.
John
How do I get the EVBK-65 I am using the CA-6 cabel now and have the ANALOG
RGB runing to a PVM 1341 and the S cable running to the EVO? I will do
whatever is nessary to get good video quality from the EVO, I like the
compactness of the format. Also you say Y-NR very low, C-NR high, is this
out of the Targa+ or the DNR of the EVO? and if it is out of the Targa+ how
do I set it? Thanks in advance!! :- )
Richard,
PMJI The EVBK-65 is a seperate RGB module that fits into a slot in the back
of your EVO. You'd then connect your Targa's output RGB cables to it
instead of using the SVHS cable. The Y-NR and C-NR is in the preset menu
on the EVO which you can see if you have a composite monitor (BNC) hooked
up to the "monitor" out on the back of the EVO. These setting adjust the
DNR in the EVO.
John
Thank John,
Koy
Hi, Richard,
The NR settings I said was in EVO-9650 settings. Just hook-up the composite out
of EVO to the monitor and flip the front panel switch to the "Menu". You will
easy to see how to set these on the monito display.
The EVBK-65 is availbale from any general Sony Video dealers. If you can wait
for one week, I will be able to send the my demo EVBK-65 board for your
checking purpose. Please let me know next Monday of your address. (I'm on
vacation this week here at Orlando).
Thanks,
Koy Sampei
Senior Product Manager/ CRVdisc
Sony Electronics, Inc.
Thanks for the Info I will start looking for a EVBK-65 board for my EVO. I
just started school again and I'm in class most of the day, but thanks for the
offer and enjoy Orlando. I hope I can find one cheap<g>.