#Landscape Maker?
25 messages in this thread
I'm looking for a landscape generator that will interface with 3DStudio.I've
checked out KPT Bryce, and it has a great interface and renders real nice, with
raytracing, haze, texture mapping, etc, but it will output only PICT files.
Since Mechadeus is a game developer we would like to combine characters
animated in 3DS with realistic landscapes. Is there a program out there or in
the works that will export and/or import mesh, lights, cameras, mapping, etc
that has the quality look of Bryce? We've also checked out Vistapro, but we'd
like a Bryce-level renderer or better. Is this a pie-in-the-sky request?
Thanks Mucho
Eric and Laura @ Mechadeus
The Best way is to use Displace Ipaz…That is paint a grayscale map in
Animator with all the good stuff lakes rivers ect and save it out as a gif.
next load the gif into Displace. tesalate the mesh to #3 [you made the mesh
with grid Ipaz] and set the size to your liking. save out new mesh and use
optimize to reduce the polys. I have found that mapping the mesh is very
important try cutting some of the faces to elements. Brandon
Brandon,
Yeah, we've been using the displace IPAS to try and make landscpaes, but it is
very time consuming to have to leave the program to edit the bitmap and come
back in to re-loft. It seems not to be made with landscaping specifically in
mind. Also, Vistapro and Bryce both map the finished mesh in a really easy way
(except Vistapro makes only mathmatical texture at render time, which requires
you to render an overhead view for a huge map). Looks like Bryce tiles maps. We
tried Cybermesh within Photoshop to create DXFs, but it is limited to mesh only,
and a little slow. If I saw Vistapro improve its renderer to Bryce quality,
export/import lights, cameras, add antialiasing, raytraced surfaces, etc, we
would jump on it.
Eric @ Mechadeus
Well I have got good results with Displace, are you useing a gray scale edge
for the altitude transitions? Vista pro dxf to 3ds did not cut it for my work.
You can try fractalize.ipaz just build your overhead shot in 2d shaper include
or exclude rivers ect and goto the editor, run fractalize with mapping on.
Brandon
You might want to take a look at Vistapro – CD-ROM version. It creates DXF file
which can then be loaded into 3DS.
Judy
Judy,
Yeah, I've played with the CD and the Windows versions, but I'd like to see a
better renderer. Have you seen HSC Software's KPTBryce? Great interface, nice
raytracing, antialiasing, cloud maker, etc. Bryce would be great, but we'd like
to interface animated characters made in 3DStudio within landscapes. Same
lighting, moving cameras, atmosphere, etc. Any ideas?
Thanks
Eric Chadwick @ Mechadeus
Have you tried the shareware program GIFDXF? I just started using it today and
for shareware it's real cool! You have to first create the Gif in a paint
program, then convert it with GIFDXF to DXf. The beauty of it is that the image
that creates the landscape also can become the map in 3D Studio. I'm not
familiar with the high end landscape generators but this is one great program.
It's from Kaymen Software ( comes with Inside 3D Studio book ). Unreal
fly-throughs … I wonder if there is a Windows version?
Bill
I have not seen KPTBryce. I don't believe I have even read a review or seen an
ad for it. Some people like FRACTINT which is available for download from one
of the Graphic's Forums. – GRAPHDEV I believe
Judy
I have not seen KPTBryce. I don't believe I have even read a review or seen an
ad for it. Some people like FRACTINT which is available for download from one
of the Graphic's Forums. – GRAPHDEV I believe
Judy
Eric,
You might also consider 3dSurf (Ipas) and QuickSurf (AutoCAD) by Schreiber
Instruments. My choice is Quicksurf, which is a full featured terrain
modelling software. The nice feature for 3DS is the fact that the surface
faces can be isolated for material application in 3DS. You can also use the
large bitmap approach for mapping the surface as well (see the VAIL.3DS model
on the R3 CD).
Quicksurf can also read DEM files directly from USGS. This will give you the
capability to import high resolution models and refine the data to the level of
detail that is necessary for your project.
Hope this helps,
CT.
3DSurf is a truly awful landscape modeler. It seems more useful for Autocad
than 3DStudio. It is too bad that it is not more like QuickSurf
Judy
Thanks everybody…. still looking for that landscape modeller/texturer to top
all. I've tried GIFDXF, haven't seen Autosurf or 3DSurf. Will have to check
them out. Are there demo versions?
Anybody who hasn't seen HSC Software's KPT Bryce really needs to check it out.
Right now it may be only on the MAC. I know they're planning (or have already
produced) a Windows vers.
Eric Chadwick @ Mechadeus
What's your targeted platform for your games?
Just curious.
JNJ
JNJ,
Mechadeus made "Critical Path," a CD-ROM adventure game for Windows and the
Mac, and we're in the final two months of producing "The Daedalus Encounter,"
another CD-ROM adventure for Windows and Mac, with a possible port to other
platforms. Critical Path was also translated into Japanese and German, and I
expect Daedalus may be translated into a few more languages. The graphic style
is realistic 3D graphics (3DStudio) composited with live-action actors & props
(on the Mac).
Eric Chadwick
Mechadeus
Sounds interesting. How many work on a typical project for you? Will Daedalus
be in Visual Basic again? Were getting MediaShop for use in some games dev.
ourself, have you looked at it? It's not bad.
JNJ
Judy,
hehe.. awful landscape modeler. Sounds like you found the limitations of a
simplistic terrain modelling routine. Actually for the cost, could you ask for
more?
I'm not sure of all the details, but I think that 3DSurf's limitions were as a
result of the original IPAS code. Quicksurf code was implemented where
possible, but obviously the goodies were left out for one reason or another.
Let's hope that with the new IPAS that more of Quicksurf will be included with
any future upgrades.
What are you currently using for landscape modelling?
CT.
Currently now I use Vistapro – CD-ROM version. For simple objects – like a rock
or something I use Fractalize in IPAS #5. I often use VistaProc just to
generate a background also. I have never really tried GIFDXF and I find that I
can get what I want from Vista Pro. I don't care much for the texture map is
generates, however. Here I will often use the textures that come with 3D Surf.
I am always "bugging" Schreiber for an upgrade to 3D Surf and I just get "Soon
NOw" for an answer. I believe it takes ASCII input but there seems to be no
place outside of the US Gov't to get same. That is simply more trouble than it
is worth. So I just use VistaPro.
Judy
As for Cost – 3D Surf and VistaPro are pretty close price wise. With all that
VistaPro can do that leaves 3D Surf vastly overpriced!
Judy
Chris,
Could you tell me where I might find the DEM USGS data. We are presently
working on a project in Atlanta that would benefit from this information.
Thanks for any information.
Doug Glasgow
Georgia Tech Lab Op
YOu can download the 1 degree DEM files off the internet for free, but the
scale is usually too big for anything usefull.
The 7.5 minute series can by calling USGS. The menlo park,CA number is
415-329-4309.
If you are unfamiliar with ordering them, The data is ordered by quad sheet
(the paper quad and the DEM share the same name and area). A catalog can be
obtained by calling USGS, or you can give me a call. We have catalogs for the
entire united states (we also have a satelitte office in Macon)
The USGS is finally starting to respond to customer demands and is now offering
the DEM data on 8mm and through the internet (you call and they give you a
password. You still have to pay). it used to be only on 9-track tape. That
sucked big time.
The price for USGS 7.5 minute DEM's are as follows:
$90.00 set up fee
$7.00 for each DEM you order.
Any more questions, give me a call at (503) 646-5393. We use this stuff all the
time, so I am pretty familiar with it. Hope this helps.
Tim,
Thanks for the info. We are extremely interested in this data, but we are not
sure how to use it. We have EasySurf and a Demo copy of Schriebers' QuickSurf.
I read in your previous message that Quicksurf imports DEM data, but I cannot
find that anywhere in the documentation. I realize that the demo version
cannot import data, but EasySurf should do something similar, or we would
possibly purchase Quicksurf if we could get the data in easily. Would you mind
commenting a little further on the use of the DEM data?
We downloaded a set of 1 degree data, the file was about 9 megs, and we could
really figure out how to use it. Sorry if this would be bothersome to discuss,
if you wouldn't mind pointing me in the right directions I would greatly
appreciate it.
>>Eric,
You might also consider 3dSurf (Ipas) and QuickSurf (AutoCAD) by Schreiber
Instruments. My choice is Quicksurf, which is a full featured terrain
modelling software. The nice feature for 3DS is the fact that the surface
faces can be isolated for material application in 3DS. You can also use the
large bitmap approach for mapping the surface as well (see the VAIL.3DS model
on the R3 CD).
Quicksurf can also read DEM files directly from USGS. This will give you the
capability to import high resolution models and refine the data to the level of
detail that is necessary for your project.
Hope this helps,
CT.<<
Actually it was Chris Thomas who talked about Quicksurf and all that, as you
can see above. Here we use and Autocad plug-in called Landcadd. There is a
small program we purchased from a company in Colorado that converts DEM
information into points, dxf, or faces. We use that information to create the
landscape meshes in Landcadd. The progrmam (called DEMDXF.EXE) would work for
your program as well, assuming it can accept ascii xyz files (most terrain
generators do). Most likely Quicksurf uses the DEMDXF.exe program since the
people who wrote it have a fairly close working relationship with Schrieber
Insturments. I have never used Easysurf, so I can't comment on how it works,
and have only glanced at quicksurf. The 1-degree DEM info is mostly useless
since the spacing between points is something like 100 meters. The 30 meters
stuff is much more usable.
There is also the matter of projection. DEM files are generated in the UTM
projection, and if you plan to use any other type of digital data (TIGER or DLG
files, for example) you need to make sure they are in the same projection. This
may not be a problem for you, but it is something to be aware of. This is
something we have to deal with all the time.
I believe 3dsurf has a 65,000 face limit, which you can run into very quickly
if doing any type of large mesh. The files can get very large, face wise. For
this reason I would not recommend purchasing it, you would be hitting the limit
far too often.
If you are wondering how we convert the dem data into a useable file, here are
the steps I generally take to get to a finished mesh.
1) convert the DEM file into and xyz ascii file (using DEMDXF.EXE)
2) convert the xyz file to the proper projection (if necessary, that is. We
have several programs that can do this)
3) use Landcadd (or whatever terrain generation program you have) to read in
the xyz file and triangulate the points and create a mesh based on the cell
size we have entered into the program (ex: square faces that are 150 feet to a
side).
Since landcadd is an Autocad program, I then have to export it to dxf then that
to 3ds. Since 3ds has a 65,000 face limit, I have to break it into pieces to
import it. Most meshes I generate have between 200,000 and 300,000 faces. The
Optimize routine on the IPAS boutique disk #7 (I think) has been real handy.
forgive me if you already knew some of this. I wasn't sure exactly what you
wanted me to comment on further, so I tried to touch everything. Let me know if
you hav any more questions.
Thank you so much for the response. I did no some, but the explanation from
someone who actually produces helps tremendously. I apologize for thinking
that you were Chris Thompson, somewhere I lost track of who I was responding
to.
Could you give me a contact for demdxf.exe? This program sounds like just the
utility we need to convert the data for use with our program Easysurf (which is
an ACAD plugin). Any idea on the cost of DEMDXF?
Also, would you mind explaining the conversion to proper projection part, and
why that would or would not be necessary? Thanks you so much for all of the
help.
Doug Glasgow
Georgia Tech Lab Operator
I got DEMDXF.EXE from a company called MICRO MAP & CAD in Colorado. Their
number is:
303-988-8354 or 303-988-4940. One is a modem number, I don't remember which.
The cost was somewhere between $300-500. Again, I don't remember exactly.
the reason you would need to convert to a different projection is that you may
have CAD files of the same area (or data of some kind) in a different
projection or unit distance. As I said, all DEM data comes in UTM (Universal
Transverse Mercator) and in Meters.
We have half of Oregon and Washington digitized into CAD files at 1 inch to
2000 feet. This is a lot of data and it is all in State Plane projection, the
units are set in feet. In order for the data to match, they need to be in the
same projection. It is easier (most of the time) to convert the new data than
the old. Either way, one will have to be converted.
If you never have to deal with this type of situation, you don't need to worry
about it. If you are dealing with real world coordinates, then the situation
will probably come up if you ever get data from an outside source (such as
USGS).
Good luck
BTW, you don't need to aplogize for thinking I was someone else, I merely
mentioned to give credit where credit is due.
I'm jumping in kind of late on this conversation, but here's my advice anyway.
I am not familiar with Bryce but I know Vistapro very well. I have also had
great success integrating Vistapro with 3DS. You might check out my pieces in
the space section of the 3DS siggraph 1994 Reel. I will say that I have not
been able to acheive correct cast shadows with Vistapro, but everything else
(camera movement, FOV, focal length, aspect ratio, etc has been perfect).
hope this helps!
-kyle