#Crisp VS Mushy
22 messages in this thread
Dear Rick – Thanks for the update info, I can't wait ! Some problems to
report – Often I will go into Pick Faces mode, or Pick point mode, and be
unable to escape without leaving the cell and re-entering. Also, I am
trying to shoot interiors of boxes, i.e. inside a room with lightsources
and such. The scanlines work fine, but raytraces leave out the walls, or
just paint objects a uniform grey color. Strange, eh ? i have seen some
interiors done with turbo, ( a beautiful one with paintings on the walls
and such, so I know it CAN be done, any hints ? kevin the architect
Kevin, I'd need to know a little more detail about what you're doing.
Better yet, if you can upload a cell with the offending object(s) and a
script file, I'll see if I can re-create your problems. When exiting the
pick modes, are you trying to return to object mode? I seem to recall
having a similar problem after trying something that is not valid in
whatever the current mode is. Selecting Undo (Rt. Amiga-U) usually will
drop you back into Group mode. –Rick
Dear Rick – thanks for the tip (re:Undo to return to groupmode) Another
suggestion (I know, you can't wait to hear it :-)) Why are erase (Amiga E)
and wireframe view (Amiga W) next to each other, besides the Mnemonic
reason of E and W on the keyboard ??? I have inadvertently erased my work
dozens of times because of the Right-Amiga – W stretch (one handed of
course !) thank god for the Undo key ! And why only R-Amiga ? We leftys
like to work with one hand on the mouse, and one on the keyboard – having
the option to use either key (a la Mac extended keyboard) would be a real
plus…then again, why am I complaining- you guys have done more for
keyboard entry types (as well as mouse users) than most.. Sorry, criticisms
retracted 😀 (except for that darn erase thing… Kevin
Kevin–I have never inadvertantly erased a cell. It must be that your
fingers are too short. 🙂 –Rick
Dear Rick – you are right, maybe that right Amiga W is juuuust a bit to
far,so how about activating the LEFT Amiga key for us "little guys":-) I am
not a programmer, but perhaps you can enlighten me. why is is that no
Amiga solid modeler (that I know) allows for both shading and SHADOWING in
paint or scanline mode ? I can understand reflections and refractions, but
a couple of Mac programs I have seen allow for shadow casting at pretty
quick calculation rates.
I would prefere a simpler rendering effect (a la videoscape or Caligari)if
I could get the shading and shadowing effects. I have been having a hard
time with unwanted gradations of color on flat surfaces ( for instance, a
wall ) Since the Amiga, even in HAM, can only show 16 shades of a color, I
end up either with heavily banded colors (blending at 5 or so) or
unattractive "splotches" with blending up. I understand a Frame Buffer will
alleviate this problem. (my brother finally saw the Impulse VD1 in action
at a computer store the other day, and was very impressed, especially with
the resolution and detail visible in a mirrored sphere. I can't wait to
see it !) I am trying to use Turbo to render interior spaces for an
architectural project,but can't seem to get a clear picture. Any hints ?
thanks in advance- kevin
If you want to have objects with a flat color, you can always make them
bright, which will give them no shading at all. I'm not a programmer
either, so I can't tell you about the shading in scanline mode. I'll pass
along your suggestion to activate the Left-Amiga key. –Rick
dear rick – I tried using bright as a setting, you are right, a solid wall!
thanks ! However, it is not only not shadowed, but nothing casts a shadow
ON it, right ? Hmmm. well, it does work…
Unfortunately, Kevin, you're correct. If you can afford a frame buffer for
your renderings (assuming you're not animating or can afford to single
frame record), the color variations on a shaded flat surface will appear
more natural. Unfortunately, with the limits of HAM, you are left with
those ugly color striations. Oh yes, another thing that you might try is
to make the object about half-way specular and very soft. This spreads the
light more evenly over its surface. Hardness makes the specular spot very
small. –Rick
Kevin, again assuming you are NOT animating, you could always TOUCH UP
your image in DigiPaint, etc… HAM can give pretty good shading, but
you've got to tweak it. –jp–
Dear John – I do tend to neglect the "after" touchups, which could
doubtless aid in my quest for a clean image. However, I still only have
Digipaint I and Photon I, and have been too busy to upgrade. I did play a
bit with digipaint III, and was very impressed.
Kevin, there is something 'pure' about a completely correct Silver image,
etc… I often wonder if the time I take to tweak my image just right is
worth it, when I could take an 'almost' correct image, go into Digipaint,
and make it better. But then I couldn't say, "created with Silver", could
I?? oh well.. still in search for the perfect image –jp–
Kevin, don't forget Diamond. It works great with RGBN files, any
resolution and it'll only cost $30, I think. –Rick
Dear Rick – thanks for the suggestion- I 'll give it a try. BTW, despite my
various "grumblings" I still have the greatest respect for
Turbo-limitations and all. I have finally started to seriously learn GDS,
a solid modeling program on the DECs at school- written by McDonnell
douglas, and probably costing a small fortune…It is a very powerful
system, with boolean operations,fast rendering,etc..but. what struck me
most was the similarity with Turbo, in terms of usage and how things went
together-I am thankful for my experiences with Turbo, it made learning in
the GDS environment MUCH easier (not to brag, ahem.. but I jammed out the
tutorial lab in about an hour – (three simple building forms) and was
generating "late evening"sun angles, material as signing,etc…while the
rest of the class was still trying to figure out what that three armed axis
was doing in the workspace..the Story command (with extrude) and Sweep and
Spin also work the same in both programs, at least conceptually. Thanks for
the 3D introin my own living room !
Kevin, you touched on one of the things which is so remarkable about the
Amiga. Whether or not any of us intend to do professional 3D, this
computer has enabled us to go so much further than ever dreamed possible at
home. The Amiga and Turbo Silver may not be where we end up, but we are
really far ahead of the game for having learned how to use them. –Rick
Dear Rick- indeed, ray tracing at home ! who would ever guess ? I don't use
the Amiga in a professional (or in any) real capacity
..yet…but while others play video games,or whatever, I sit around and render
three dimensional scenes of what have you. And that in itself is a joy. I DO
hope to use Turbo (or the next big thing) someday for "real" world business,
but that is besides the point, I enjoy what I am doing NOW. kevin
Couldn't help but butt in here, but the mention of frame buffer grabbed me.
I just got my Mimetics installed in my A2500 but the image fills the screen
vertically but is only about 1/3 of screen width. I have TS-SV set to HAM,
OVERSCAN, 24-bit and the framebuffer set to 746×482. I would also like to
hear comments from anyone else out there that has a framebuffer of any
sort. I am not that impressed with the Mimetics yet… boy does it have
dot crawl. I am using the A2080 for disply out of convenience and because
it has a comb filter of sorts.
We got horrible results from Sculpt 4D but I think part of the problem is
learning how to chose colors etc. for best performance. Anyone else using
one that has suggestions??
Duane, you can't use HAM with an image meant for a frame buffer. HAM is
only available in 320-pixel width screens. An overscan buffer has over
700-pixel resolution. Choose Hi-Res, Overscan20, Interlace and 24-bit with
Silver. –Rick P.S. I've never used the Mimetics buffer; please fill me
in on how it works out for you.
Duane,
You probably paid less for the Mimetics frame buffer than for a decent RGB
encoder. You can't expect excellent NTSC output.
Look into the ImageLink system that allows you to plug a Targa into a 2000
and have images rendered directly into it. This system not-so-coincidentally
works with my single-frame recording software (Transport Controller). ImageLink
is at (201) 223-5999. —Mike/MicroIllusions
Mike, I always seem to be asking you this… could you better describe the
ImageLink system? Frankly, I don't know anything about it, but I've been
researching better AMiga video for a year now, and want to stay informed!
thanks.. –jp–
Actually we have looked at a Vista board (Targa clone) using the
ImageLink, which did show bad dot crawl in NTSC mode with high contrast
images. BTW, I did not notice that the Transport Controller worked with
ImageLink… thanks for pointing it out.
I have an interest in arch. simulation and solicit input from draughtsmen and
architects. What's your specific app. and what do you hope to achieve? J.K.
Dear john – well, i mostly use a Mac II for my architectural work, although I
am presently fooling around with GDS, McDonnell Douglas CAD program on a DEC.
I also am familiar with the MSDOS stuff, like Autocad. I haven't seen or used
any Amiga CAD program which even comes close to anything on other platforms,
reviews not withstanding. I'm sorry, but if I read another review about how
well Amiga CAD matches up with Autocad…:-( 🙂 Fact is, the Amiga is waaaay
behind in professional CAD solutions…But there are alot of said solutions
already out there and established… What I am looking for is not an
"electronic" drafting board for finished work, but rather a '3D sketch pad" of
sorts, for design development and schematics. I want to be able to quickly and
easily run through several massing schemes for a building, take various
perspective views, with shadows and shading… I want a tool that could act as
a front end for the various existing CAD programs..To design and visualize in
three dimensions, and
then send the output to AutoCAD or Claris CAD for cleaning up and final
output. A lot of programs can help one be a better draftsman what we need are
more tools for better design.
I also would like to be able to model interior spaces, with ambient
lighting and textures, similar to what Silver offers. I have seen
examples of Radiosity(as opposed to Raytracing) which really capture what
a room looks like with soft multidirectional lighting. With such a tool
we architects can test out color, texture, and lighting of a space, as
well as design 'Quality" spaces for better environments…are you sorry
you asked ? :^) anyways, those are two possible and necessary
applications, on opposite ends of the spectrum…Actually, the first
program on the Amiga market which offers either: 1.Radiosity 2.Boolean
operations gets my money, no questions asked…(hope its Impulse ! :-))