CompuServe Thread

#AmigaWorld

32 messages in this thread
#37922From: randy schirmerAug 31, 1990 7:46 PM
Hi. I'm posting this here because I don't know of a better place and maybe someone has had this experience themselves. I received a copy of AmigaWorld along with a note congratulating me for my purchase of an Amiga. This came as a shock to me since I don't own an Amiga. I think it's a sharp computer but I don't own one. I figure I was on some mailing list because I bought some Amiga software for a Christmas gift for a friend of mine who does own an Amiga. The letter said that IF I wanted to continue getting the magazine, I should pay $xx.xx. (I forget the amount). I didn't want the magazine. I don't own the machine. So I didn't pay any money. I later got a letter saying that if I didn't pay, I would lose touch with the world of Amiga…blah…blah…the standard stuff you hear with any magazine. I didn't care. I don't own an Amiga. Several months went by and I got an letter saying that 'it used to be that a gentleman's word was his bond and that you had given your word that you wanted AmigaWorld!' … and if I didn't send money, the matter was being handed over to a collection agency! Whoa!! Now they stepped over the line. First: I never subscribed. Second: If I had I would have given them my current address. The address they were using was my old address and was no longer valid for the past 8 months! Third: I only received ONE COPY of that magazine. And THAT was accompanied by the letter that I spoke of earlier. Fourth: This latest letter had my current address. They probably got that from an updated mailing list. Now I got a letter from a collection agency!
#37923From: randy schirmerAug 31, 1990 7:52 PM
I don't know what is going on but this really smacks of mail fraud. Now I have to spend money and time either writing to them or calling them, not to mention online charges for writing this. This letter I just got actually goes so far to say that if I don't respond, the publisher's claim against me will be considered valid. What kind of magazine is this? Please, I'm not trying to start a flame war but this is a disgraceful way to run a magazine and if I ever do buy an Amiga, I wouldn't buy AmigaWorld anyway. It doesn't have enough meat to it. Even if it did, I wouldn't give them business after this. Has anyone had experiences similar to this? Randy Schirmer
#37929From: Lloyd W. Dull IIIAug 31, 1990 10:31 PM
Randy, What has happened to you is indeed unfortunate, but it seems that a note or letter some time back would have saved you a lot of grief. It didn't happen with AmigaWorld, but I canceled a magazine subscription once with no problems. I just wrote them a letter and explained that I wished to cancel and explained why. Lloyd
#37942From: randy schirmerSep 1, 1990 8:09 AM
Lloyd, there is no subscription to cancel. I never asked them to send me anything. There was no activity on my part ever. The magazine that they did send me had a letter that said 'if I want to continue getting the magazine, send money'. I never even inquired about the magazine. Randy
#38013From: Lloyd W. Dull IIISep 2, 1990 2:29 PM
Randy, I understand that. But if someone steals the carbons from you VISA (or whatever) and starts making fraudulent charges, do you just ignore your bills because *you* didn't make those charges? And then refuse to pay your VISA bill – WITHOUT explaining to VISA *why* you are refusing to pay? My point is that *we* didn't sign you up for that subscription either. Complaining to *us* won't get your problem resolved. A mistake occured, and if you had communicated that fact to the magazine some time ago you might have saved yourself the aggravation you have now. The fact that this happened with AmigaWorld is irrelevant. I really doubt they have a policy of signing up random people for unwanted subscriptions – and then trying to COERCE them into accepting/paying for them. I suggest you mail a letter to them asking them to stop their actions, and explain to them that you didn't subscibe in the first place. That is something you should have done a long time ago, however. Lloyd
#38067From: randy schirmerSep 3, 1990 11:25 AM
Lloyd, please see message #38066. Randy
#37936From: Richard S. Rose,M.D.Sep 1, 1990 1:10 AM
Randy, I don't know if Amiga World is guilty of mail fraud, but the situation that you describe does stink! Amiga World may be deliberately engaging in unethical practices, or a real mistake may have occured. If you get turned over to collection, you may find that it is very hard to rid your credit record of the problem. I am a partner in a medium sized collection agency that does business only with hospitals. We, as many agencies so affiliated, value our credentials and ethical standing, and often get involved in clearing the credit ratings of people incorrectly saddled with charges. Sometimes miniscule charges can wreak havoc with a person's rating! As much as you do not wish to have to take action in your case, I advise you to immediately do so. Your situation is unfortunately no different than the case of someone who has been erroneously billed due to an incorrect entry of a credit card number. Write to Amiga World or call their subscription department. If you don't get the problem cleared up, contacting a local 'consumer's advocate' ombudsman at a TV station or newspaper can be very effective. Rich
#37943From: randy schirmerSep 1, 1990 8:14 AM
Rich, thanks for your input. I dismissed the earlier letters from them as a subscription ploy. Now it seems that I can't. I think maybe a letter to a postal inspector wouldn't be bad either. If my credit is damaged, they're going to wish they never started this. Randy
#37966From: David ArtSep 1, 1990 11:06 AM
Randy, I've been the victim of shoddy treatment similar to this from magazine promoters as well. In my case the trial copy was requested, but the directions to cancel were followed to the letter. Finally, I had to send a threatening letter to the magazine before I stopped getting the notices. This scenario has happened to me twice, which indicates to me that the industry has a _really_ dirty act that they'd better get cleaned up. (BTW – the incidents that I described were _not_ with Amigworld, or any other computer publication. I suspect that the problem really lies with a questionable marketing company rather than the publishers themselves.) David PS – I hope that you make them wish that they never tried their ploy on you or anybody else!
#37975From: randy schirmerSep 1, 1990 1:35 PM
Hi David. I should have written to them long ago but I never dreamed that it would go this far. Maybe I ought to give AmigaWorld a call and do what I can to make them see that their distributors are unscrupulous at best. Randy
#38110From: Art SteinmetzSep 4, 1990 10:02 AM
Randy, AW's marketing people did the same thing to me…twice. It's not a real collection agency, just marketing BS. I still get banks falling over themselves to give me credit cards. Throw it out and ignore it. — Art
#38086From: Phil AdamsSep 3, 1990 8:09 PM
I think it's slightly absurd to assume AW would enter into some sort of fraud scheme like is being presented here. This is beginning to sound like some sort of witch hunt.
#37953From: Betty Clay/SYSOPSep 1, 1990 9:43 AM
My experiences with AmigaWorld have been the greatest. Sorry you have had a bad time. .Betty
#38085From: Phil AdamsSep 3, 1990 8:07 PM
P.S.: This "disgraceful" action is no different than any large magazine runs its business. Again, from what you've described, I'd be willing to bet that someone else subscribed at YOUR expense. This isn't the magazine's fault. They only see a subscription form that says yes.
#37940From: Beth MurraySep 1, 1990 7:15 AM
Randy, I got the exact same letter a couple of months ago, but decided just to toss it in the trash. They sent this one to me, and I already subscribe to Amigaworld!! (a 3 year subscription to boot). I figured it was just BS and forgot all about it. Not sure what they're up to, but it's pretty weird to get a 'free' issue and then get that nasty letter questioning your morals! Stranger still that a paying subscriber gets the same treatment!
#37945From: randy schirmerSep 1, 1990 8:19 AM
Hi Beth, which letter did you get? The one asking you if you want to continue getting the magazine or the one questioning or ethics or the one from a collection agency? They must be pretty heavy handed to do this to a paying subscriber too. If this practice is the work of one or two people it would be nice to see them get called on the carpet for doing this. Randy
#37952From: Bob LindstromSep 1, 1990 9:25 AM
Though I'm not empowered to be an apologist for AmigaWorld, all of you involved in this confusion over the AmigaWorld letter should calm down a bit. The magazine staff is not directly responsible for anything that you are encountering. Magazines typically use outside fulfillment agencies to handle subscription delivery and renewal. These agencies are notoriously screwed up. That's why you often subscribe to a magazine, receive your first issue, then get a card asking you to renew. It's a tremendous frustration for those of us on the editorial side of publication because we have no control over it, and it just cheeses off our loyal readers. (Or, as in your case, Randy, a completely uninvolved, innocent bystander). I suggest Randy call a member of the AmigaWorld staff, CALMLY explain the problem and ask them to resolve the matter with AmigaWorld's circulation/distribution departments. That should fix the problem. I know, I know … it's a pain in the *ss. But it's one of the irritating realities of the magazine biz. Good Luck, Bob Lindstrom Editor in Chief Computer Shopper
#37972From: randy schirmerSep 1, 1990 1:24 PM
Thanks Bob. I had heard that there are two main magazine clearing houses in the US and that this could be caused by them although some of these letters are 'signed' by the editor. I guess I will call AmigaWorld. Hopefully my credit hasn't been hurt by this. Randy
#38012From: John ParkerSep 2, 1990 2:22 PM
I had a similar problem in the past with other magazines, but it eventually turned out that a "friend" had decided to pull a practical joke and filled out a subscription card in my name. it would'nt have been too bad if it was Playboy, but it was Parenthood Magazine!
#38060From: randy schirmerSep 3, 1990 10:56 AM
John, I really don't know many people who are familiar with what comptuers I might have. The only one who know is beyond jokes like that and is just as angry about this situation as I am. Now I know about a dozen people who might send my name to Parenthood magazine! Randy
#38095From: David M. DowdleSep 3, 1990 10:37 PM
Randy, Last year I recieved the same set of letters. Of course I was a subscriber. Worse, in the same mail as the You-broke-your-word letter, I recieved the cashed check for the Magazine. I ended up sending then several letters about their impolite letters, and how, If collections cound not communicate with their accounting department, I would be glad to take over for them. I soon recived an apology. David M. Dowdle
#38104From: Fred MurraySep 4, 1990 12:51 AM
Let me just jump in here and say it would be very easy for anyone knowing someone's name and address to clip out a subscription card out of any magazine and select "Bill Me"!!! I don't know if AW or other magazines would send an issue out before collecting payment. just a thought!
#37961From: peter selverstoneSep 1, 1990 10:28 AM
Oh my! Are they still using that "word is his bond" thing? I was so angry that I cancelled the subscription that I had paid for when I got that. It must be the marketing virus that infects every business involved with the Amiga. Peter.
#37962From: peter selverstoneSep 1, 1990 10:33 AM
This was almost three years ago by the way. Peter.
#37968From: SyndesisSep 1, 1990 12:01 PM
Those letters rarely have anything to do with the signature at the bottom of the bill. They are form letters, pulled from books or files that these companies keep and re-use between companies. Ever notice how so many of them begin "Frankly, I'm confused." Like there's really a person at the other end, worried because you haven't sent in your money. I find the bills and renewal notices quite confusing. They rarely show, clearly, when your sub started, how many issues you've recieved, how many you'll get, and how many months in advance they want your check for a renewal. Then there's the consumer / marketing problem caused by cover dates that have nothing to do with delivery dates. Marketing virus? Does this virus prevent people from marketing, or does it make stupid marketing campaigns? Did we catch it from someone inside Commodore? If it's contagious, maybe we should visit a few more MacWorld shows, and shake a lot of hands.
#37974From: randy schirmerSep 1, 1990 1:32 PM
That's how they got my name in the first place. I bought some Amiga products for a friend. They see my name on a list and they try to get me as a subscriber. I don't have a problem with that but don't create these 'agreements' unilaterally and then say that my not telling them that I didn't want Amigaworld means that I want it! Whoever does that should look for another line of work. Randy
#37990From: Betty Clay/SYSOPSep 1, 1990 7:45 PM
Randy, Several of the editorial staff from AmigaWorld make frequent visits to this forum. Your letter came right at a holiday weekend, and they have not answered you, but I suspect that you will hear from them next week. Do remember, though, that these are editorial people who have nothing at all to do with the marketing stuff. .Betty
#38059From: randy schirmerSep 3, 1990 10:46 AM
After I first posted my message, I wondered if that might be true. I do appreciate the responses I've received. Randy
#37973From: randy schirmerSep 1, 1990 1:27 PM
Hi Peter. Nothing like questioning one's ethics to inspire customer loyalty! Randy
#37967From: SyndesisSep 1, 1990 11:55 AM
You realized something was wrong, you should have done something about it. The easiest thing to do is to send the bill back to them, after you've written "Cancel, I didn't order this" on the bill. Works like a charm. The subscription fulfillment departments have very little to do with the people who run and write the magazine. Ever notice how so many magazine bills get sent back to Boulder, CO or Harlan, Iowa, or other tiny towns? It's because the fulfillment companies are nowhere near the publishers. How could this have happened? Someone could have written your name on a subscription card, and sent it in.
#37999From: John BonoSep 2, 1990 12:41 AM
It's not his responsibility, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure postal regs are clear cut when it comes to receiving something through the mail. If you receive something that you didn't specifically order, didn't expect, etc., you have absolutely no financial responsibility in regards to receiving that item. If a publishers sends someone a mag that wasn't supposed to receive it, too bad, that the publisher's tough luck. John
#38084From: Phil AdamsSep 3, 1990 8:05 PM
I'd imagine whoever lives at your old address is happily reading their free Amiga World subscription even as you read this…