#WUTIL and MS-DOS 3.10
15 messages in this thread
Bill:
There is obviously no way that a software escrow mas any sense for a low
cost mass market software product as an agreement between vendor and end
users. But how about an industry association acting as escroand providing
a safety net for the users as a class in the event a vendor\ goes out of
business or abandons a product. It would seem that such an arrangement
would be a real marketing plus for vendors who are trying to break into the
market and have no track record. As an end user, I would certainly be more
willing to commit dollars and time to a software product which stated that
the source code was escrowed with the "National Association of Widget
Warehousers" and would be made available to a successor vendor for support
or to all registered end users if the original vendor were to cease support
for the program or a successor product. What do you think?
–Will
Will,
First off… long time no see! Where the heck are you these days??!
I agree, that's an interesting idea. The question is, do you think any
industry association would be willing to go for it? Particularly if the
responsibility extends to making the code available to all registered end
users, the cost of administering the escrow agreement is high. An
agreement to make it available to another supporting entity is reasonable,
though… bearing in mind the legal issue I raised which makes the whole
software-escrow arrangement less secure than it might appear.
How does one identify the alternate supporting entity, though? Is the
industry association capable of doing so (probably not unless they have
some technical staff of their own capable of doing the evaluation)? Is the
original vendor responsible for that? Does it just go up to the highest
bidder when the time comes (which could be a competitor who simply wants to
buy the product and shove it in a safe, "forcing" customers to switch to a
different product over time)?
-Bill
Fond as I am of Will's vision (always have been, really), I think you're
right to question if this is association stuff. On the other hand, it *is*
a significant bonus for the firm that is trying to break into the market.
Bill, you mentioned (I believe) the impracticality of this sort of
agreement on a smaller basis. If you were speaking of insisting Aldus or
Ashton-Tate sign an escrow agreement, I see your point (and skip ahead five
paragraphs). But in the market that most troubles me, where a client spends
about $5-10K for the initial product with $2K for support every year, do
you still consider that an impractical protection, and if so, why?
I'll just add that knowing the source code was in a third party's hand
would make me a lot less reluctant to get into a deal. I realize how
limited the protection is, in fact, but I think it would provide a similar
encouragement to the vendor to honor the original agreement.
Mike,
No… in the market you mention ($5-10K product price with $2K
support/year) an escrow agreement is not impractical at all.
I'm not aware that there are many (any? well I guess there is at least
one!) PC-class products in that price range. Heck, that's the same price
range (higher, even) as our VAX-based software, and we certainly do escrow
agreements on that.
The problem arises with the under-$1K, maybe even under-$2K product
range, which encompasses… what would you guess… maybe 99% of the PC
software products in the world? In that range I don't think an escrow
agreement is practical.
I also think very few people would be willing to spend $5-10K for a PC
software product (I assume we're talking one or two copies here, not
dozens). If that assumption is wrong, then my company needs to re-evaluate
its decision to stay out of the PC software market. The only way we could
provide a decent product to our small vertical niche with adequate support
would be if we could charge that type of price, and this is the first I've
heard that such a thing is, in fact, viable in the PC world. The
prospective customers we've spoken to have blanched at that price and have
said they would hack something together themselves with a dBASE clone or
with BASIC, even though they have not the slightest familiarity with
either, rather than spend that type of price on a hardware platform that
they've put $2-4K into.
-Bill
In this particular market, that's the price range of the software from
several vendors. Our particular vendor has sold several hundre packages,
but they expect users to pay that heavy support fee every year, too. They
haven't many employees, but there are more than four people there.
The alternative is usually buying the service from an outside firm
(sort of like payroll). The attraction is that potential clients believe it
will be cheaper to do it themselves, and they'll provide better service
than a third party. So there's a strong incentive.
But these are not very sophisticated products. One is written in Omnis
3.3's procedural language, another in Clipper-compiled dBASE. Even running
on a $10K computer, they run slowly. So it's reasonable to hack your own,
customized to your needs.
Remind me again, please, of what this application is/does…?
Circulation management.
Circulation management as in publications (newspapers etc.) as
distinguished from library circulation management?
Yes.
We are alive and well and living in Boston, where the Massachusetts Miracle
has faded into a leading edge recession. Other than being in DEC's
backyard when it posts its first quarterly loss in history, everything is
great.
The RB is still chugging along although the LA-50 seems to be living at
field service having made its third trip in 12 months.
Office work is now on a Toshiba T3200 with lots of outboard stuff like a
DEC-style keyboard and color CRT when the T3200 is not in portable mode.
I will drop in from time to time. Glad to see that there are still a few
familiar faces(?) around.
— Will
Re: the Massachusetts Miracle, tell me about it… I live here too! ;-}
-Bill
Will,
Just wanted to let you know there was another familiar "face" here <grin>.
Glad to hear from you again! I'm still chugging along with my Rainbow, but
I now own a 386 clone as well. The Rainbow is still great for most of my
stuff but the wife needed the clone for her work from the office. I can't
complain though as I finally get to play Flight Simulator <hehe>!
Take care of yourself and stop in and say hi when time permits.
Bill
Welcome to the area! I'm up in Chelmsford. The power supply on my 'Bow
ate itself last week, and I found that my local DEC carry-in had moved from
around the corner to way down in Waltham. 🙁 Still, it's a good deal. I
just dropped the service on my (third) LA-50 because I bought an HP
DeskJet, but I keep the LA-50 for pin-feed address labels. Have a better
one, and maybe we'll "chat" on the weekly CO sometime… when I'm not on
the road, that is.
Dennette
Yep, Waltham service center. Nice folks when they're around. I drove out
there to pick up the LA-50 one morning and there was no one there with a
key to the back room. Seems that, in typical DEC fashion, everyone was
away in a "training session." (Customer service, no doubt.)
A half hour later someone was located with a key and I explained to the
nice young lady that the repair was under contract and that there was no
money to collect or additional paperwork to do. She was most apologetic as
she had been told that all she had to do was sit behind the counter and if
anyone brought in any hardware for repair to accept it and put it on the
floor next to her with a note explaining who owned it and what was wrong.
I guess the theory was that equipment comes in but never goes out. Sort of
like the elevator that only goes up. 🙂
Well, I guess the Waltham center is gonna improve Real Soon Now… They've
consolidated as of this week (!!) and the new guy in charge has been the
one servicing my 'Bow for the last two years (since I move in-state.) I
have the utmost confidence in _this_ crew, although I've heard real horror
stories from some of the 'Bow Babies. OTOH, when six feet of Black male
with a shaved head walks in and cops an "attitude", they've been known to
replace a power supply while I sip a cup of coffee! (Amazing how some
people can be "assertive" just by wearing sunglasses and responding to a
cheery, "Good Morning!" with, "That remains to be seen!") 8-}