Advice needed
39 messages in this thread
I've recently done some major upgrading to my stock A-500 w/ 1mg RAM:
*Upgraded to WB V2.1
*Bought AutoPilot
*Installed Magic WorkBench
*Upgraded to GVP A530 Turbo w/ 2mg RAM, '030 CPU running at 40 Mhz w/ 40 meg
harddrive.
My A-500 is screaming !!!! Never thought life could BE so good !!!
Unfortunatly this interlace flicker is driving me NUTS !!!! What's the next
step/steps to perfection? New monitor? New chip-set? How much money are we
talking?
I need some good advice and I know my fellow Amiga fanatic bretheren
(sisteren?) will come through for me. I'm all ears!!!
—Rich
How about a Flicker Free Video II from DKB, a multisync monitor, an ECS
upgrade, and an Agnus upgrade? Or you could just sell it all, buy a 1200,
an accelerator and a monitor.
opps… FFV is from ICD, not DKB. Sorry about that.
Uh…Gee Michael, thanks for the info (he says as he's banging his head
against the wall, kicking, screaming, cursing…..) but I just spent $400
to get where I am!!! I've got a screaming A500, all I want is better
resolution. Selling the A500 doesn't strike me as the the way to go.
What would you say is the minimum I need to get just a _little_ better
resolution? (how much money are we talking) Maybe perfecton is not going
to be possible.
Thanks.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Richard;
>kicking, screaming, cursing….
I sorta thought that you just possibly, maybe, likely, would not care to
hear the suggestion that you throw the whole thing out and start over. I
think maybe I was right 🙂
-bill
Bill,
>not care to…..throw the whole thing out…
With your usual omnipotent wisdom Bill, you are absolutely correct. :^)
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Gee… "omnipotent wisdom"… that is omniscience I believe but
considering how things went this weekend, I can assure you that
omniscience is not one of my "strong suits!!"
-bill
Humm, not gemain to this discussion but my message indicating that I had
less than an idea weekend needs to be retracted. A friend across town
told me last night that his 3 year old son took a dive face first onto
concrete and his wife totalled their car… I had a wonderful weekend.
-bill
That "germane", oh, omniscient one, and I guess I'm _not_ sorry about your
weekend. I am sorry for your friends though.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Bill,
You're right (oh, omniscient one) :^)
Sorry about your weekend.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
ok, ok… I was just making sure you knew what the options were 🙂
To upgrade, at a minimum, you need a monitor capable of 31.5 Khz (VGA)
connected to something like ICD's FFV (flicker free video). Then you would
have one monitor using your RGB port at 15.75Khz (standard interlaced
Amiga output) and another using the output from the FFV (deinterlaced).
You should also consider upgrading your AGNUS so that you can address 1
meg of CHIP ram, (the AGNUS does not add any memory to your system, only
changes how much of your memory can be used as 'CHIP' ram) and/or getting
the full ECS (Enhanced Chip Set) to allow you to use all of the Amiga
video modes (except the AGA modes).
The FFV itself doesn't use any memory (as far as I know), it only
deinterlaces the Amiga video signal and sends it out at 31.5Khz.
Thanks again, Mike.
I'm going to look into this FFV thing.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Hi Rich!
The best advice I could give you on the flicker, would be to buy, either
the Flicker Free Video, or there's a new one called the Flicker Blaster (I
don't know how good it is though.) I believe they're both in the low to
mid $200 range. Then you'd need to buy a cheap VGA monitor ($150-200).
I know that kind of sounds expensive, but you'd be suprised how much
better the display would look! Course, there's always the used market…
You might also go to 1 meg of chip ram, if you haven't already. you don't
need the new Denise if you get one of the flicker eliminators.
I revved up my A1200 too! (50Mhz M1230XA) gives a new meaning to the term
"pocket rocket" 🙂
Bob Comer — Flying high and fast with my A1200HD'030 on Autopilot!
From Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
Bob,
Thanks for the reply.
I understand the flicker eliminator stuff, but I'm a little confused as to
the different types of RAM. Along with my original .5 Agnus, I've added
the .5 expansion card to the slot under my A500 for a total of 1meg. Is
this the "chip" RAM you're talking about. Also the GVP A530 has 2meg RAM.
What kind of RAM is that?
No, another $400 or so would not be out of line to bring my machine up to
par with, as I understand it, the A3000 as far as speed and resolution
(I'm not into the heavy duty animation, graphics stuff, so I don't need
_that_ kind of ability on my machine).
My A500 is 7 years old and is screaming like a banchee. I'm not going to
try to sell it and get, what, maybe $6-700 for it? (As Michael suggested)
All I want is better resolution. Maybe it's not possible. <sigh>
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Rich,
The way you describe it, you have half a meg of CHIP ram and 2.5 Meg of
FAST ram. You would need to update the Agnus chip, and make some
modifications on the motherboard (spot of soldering and trace cutting) to
change that to one meg CHIP and two FAST.
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Pete,
Are you sure? Do you have an A500? I'm not necessarily doubting you, I
was just under the impression that when I added the card _under_ my A500,
I was _adding_ 512k to the 512k provided by the Agnus chip.
There is no doubt in my mind, however, that I could be wrong. As I said,
I'm a little confused over this "chip" vs. "fast" RAM stuff.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Rich,
No, I don't have an A500. I've never been that low. 🙂
I started in 1985 with the 1000 and progressed upwards,
2000-2500-3000-4000. I have, however, performed surgery on two A500's to
bring them up to one meg CHIP Ram specification. Two traces have to be cut
and a link soldered in, If I remember correctly. I can look it up for you,
if you like. A qualification on what I said about replacing the Agnus, I
think that was only necessary on some early models, and that the later
ones had the one meg Agnus already installed. I am sure someone on the
Forum will be able to confirm this.
Totally changing the subject, and getting on to another of my interests,
mayI ask you how far back are your Frisian ancestors? Or am I totally
misreading your name?
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Peter,
would you look it up for me? My 500 has the ECS Agnus, but it hasn't
been enabled. I seem to have lost my instructions.
Brian
Brian,
shall do.
Pete Jones, flying on AutoPilot from Brussels, Belgium
Rich,
Typing 'avail' at any CLI prompt will tell you how much chip and fast
ram you have. All your displays and sound use chip ram everything else
can use either. So if you find yourself running out of chip ram you'll
start having problems opening new windows and such. I hope nobody takes
offence at my lack of precision in verbage. <g>
-Sean
The RAM in the belly slot on the 500 is Fast RAM (actually, it's half fast
RAM 🙂 until it enabled by getting a 8372 or better Agnus, and doing some
hacking on the motherboard. (Not real hard if you've done this kind of
thing before. The 2 Meg's in the GVP is 32 bit Fast RAM.
If you have a shop that'll work on Amiga's somewhere near, I'm sure they
wouldn't charge to much the the upgrade to 1 Meg chip. I'd get this done
if I were you, now that you have more RAM a HD and speed, you definetly
start using more of what you have! 🙂 (Shouldn't be much over $70,
including the Agnus, maybe less.)
You get pretty much the same resoultion as before, except no flicker,
which to my eyes, is much better. (I couldn't stand to run AP on my 500,
gave me migraines!)
As long as your happy with what you have, why get rid of it! (I still one
of my 500's, I don't use it as much, but it's there when I need it.)
There probably will come a time when you want more color resolution, but
by that time, AA+ chipset might be out!
Bob Comer — Flying high and fast with my A1200HD'030 on Autopilot!
From Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
Robert;
What do you mean, same resolution but no flicker? Changing Agnus will not
change the display mode or scan rate.
-bill
>What do you mean, same resolution but no flicker? Changing Agnus will
>not change the display mode or scan rate.
I was speaking of Flicker Free Video, or something like it.
-bill
Bob Comer — Flying high and fast with my A1200HD'030 on Autopilot!
From Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
Thanks Robert.
Then Bill was right. When I added the card to the belly, I didn't _add_
512k to Agnus.
When you say that I'm not "using what I have" what exactly do you mean.
What am I not using? Just curious.
What's your opinion of getting Flicker-Free Video II and a cheap VGA
monitor? Does FFV work on an A500? Would I need to upgrade Agnus to 1meg
to use FFV?
Whats this I hear about the "MegaChip"? What is it? How much does it
cost? Do I just pop-out Agnus and plug-in the MegaChip? or is it more
involved than that?
Thanks for your help. I'm afraid I'm more PC literate (for shame!!!) than
Amiga literate.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
About your "not using what you have"
Just one of Murphy's laws of computing… No matter how fast your
computer is, and no matter how much storage you have, you'll find a way to
need more. 🙂
FFV II's a good product, and yes it does work in a 500. I don't believe
you need the 1M Agnus to use the FFV, but I'm not real sure on this.
Megachip is a 2M Agnus board that plugs into the Agnus socket in a 500, or
2000. It gives you 2M of chip ram. I've never owned one, so don't know
the specifics, but I've owned other DKB products, and I've had no
problems… (Good technical support, and they're even on CIS.)
No shame in knowing about PC's, I work with them too, I just don't like
them as much.
Bob Comer — Flying high and fast with my A1200HD'030 on Autopilot!
From Cheyenne, Wyoming U.S.A.
Bob,
> Murphy's law of computing
Ah yes, I seem to run into him nearly every day. :^)
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Richard;
I have never used an A500 (did own one for a few weeks… actually I
suppose that technically I still own one but I have not seen it in over a
year but I digress…).
I did not know that the MegAChip was available for the A500 (I have two,
one in an A2000 and another in an A2500 with GVP G-Force 040). Both
devices have worked flawlessly. Most importantly, if you are trying to
make serious use of your machines (particularly for graphics) this is
probably the single most important enhancement to your system short of OS
2.x and maybe a hard drive.
The system will be considerably faster for most use with a MegAChip
installed as well as considerably most stable.
-bill
Bill,
Well, I've got the upgraded OS version and a hard drive with an '030 CPU.
Maybe MegaChip is the next step. Thanks for the info.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Richard >>I understand the flicker eliminator stuff, but I'm a little
confused as to the different types of RAM.<<
Ok,
The 512K on the motherboard is "shared" by both the CPU & Agnus chip.
Kind of like shared office space. At any given moment, only one of them
can be working in the office, so they take turns with Agnus controling
access of the office. Sometimes Agnus is given a big job to do, and must
work overtime in the office. Agnus can steal upto three turns, before
having to let CPU access the office area. This shared RAM is called "Chip
RAM", since the "custom chips" also use it.
The CPU also has access to an area of RAM that Agnus can't see or use. The
CPU NEVER has to stop or "wait" to access it, so the area is called "Fast
RAM". This is the extra memory plugged into the left side of your A500,
(including the RAM in the A530). The CPU will use the Fast RAM first,
before trying to use the Chip RAM.
A third type of RAM is the RAM plugged into the A501 (belly) slot. This
RAM isn't used by the Agnus, but is under her control. Kind of like a
backroom to the shared memory area. Only the CPU can use it, but the CPU
still must wait to access it if Agnus is busy. This RAM area is called
"Slow RAM". Slow RAM, does have two advantages. First, the CPU will use
it before it uses CHIP RAM, saving CHIP memory. Second, if you use the
ECS Agnus the Slow RAM can be reconfigured (hardware hack) to be CHIP
Memory for a full 1-meg of CHIP.
As is, you appear to have 512K-CHIP + 512K-Slow for 1-meg total. If you
convert using the ECS Agnus you could have 1024K-CHIP + 0K-Slow for 1-meg
of total memory. The A530 would also give 2-megs of Fast memory.
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
Ronald,
OK. If I upgrade to ESC Agnus (isn't she 1meg by herself?) how would that
effect my flicker problem?
If I get ESC Agnus, do I have any use for the memory card in the belly? or
are you saying ESC Agnus is 512k and by "hacking" my belly card I'll
achieve 1meg?
Thanks to you and the others, I'm getting _real_ close to having this
figured out.
Finally, whats your opinion of the Flicker-Free Video II and a cheap VGA
monitor option? Can I add these to my current configuration or must I
"hack" as mentioned above?
Thanks for your help.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Richard,
You have a misconception about Agnus. Agnus has 0 ram. Depending on what
version of Agnus it can address x amount of ram, known as chip ram. In
your 500, you've got 512k of ram on the motherboard of your computer that
is set aside specifically as chip ram (the ram that Agnus can address).
If you get a 1M Agnus, make small modifications to your motherboard, you
will then be able to use the 512k on the belly card as chip ram.
If you want to eliminate hires flicker you will need a scan doubler of
some sort (2 or 3 have already been recommended to you) and a monitor that
is capable of supporting a 31.5KHz scan rate.
Had you decided to go with the 1200 you'd have gotten 2M chip ram and a
flickerless hires display as part of the AGA chipset (and all the other
color resolution and display mode enhancements of AGA). Add some fast ram
to the 1200 and it's nearly as fast as an A3000 (A1200 uses an EC020, no
MMU, so no added wait state for the MMU that the 3000's 030 has).
-sja
Steve,
Thanks for the added info. Combined with the other posts, I believe I've
got a good idea of the big picture.
The only question, I believe, that I still need answered is, will FFV II
run on only 512k of "chip" RAM? Or_ must_ I upgrade to 1meg Agnus and
then hack my motherboard so she can read my "belly" card?
>A1200
Since I have the GVC turbo (w/ '030 CPU) My speed is already close to the
A3000, as I understand it. That's why I didn't consider the A1200 an
option. But, alas, no AGA chipset. 🙁
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Ok, the Agnus chip only controls access to RAM, it has NO RAM inside it.
The 512K of RAM that the OCS Agnus uses is the 512K on the motherboard.
The ECS Agnus controls access to the 512K of RAM on the motherboard, and
has the OPTION of controling access to the 512K in the belly slot for a
total of 1024K RAM.
To activate the 1-meg OPTION, you must "flip" a solder trace near the ECS
Agnus socket to put Agnus into "1-meg mode", THEN you must cut other trace
near the belly slot. The second trace tells the GARY chip to configure
the A501 RAM as "FAST" if the trace is closed; if the trace is open (cut)
the GARY configures the A501 as CHIP RAM and gives it to Agnus.
Some Amiga's already have the ECS Agnus (#8372a), but it is running in
512K mode. The "1-meg mode" REQUIRES 1-meg of CHIP memory to be present
AND configured as CHIP, or the system will crash. The A501 card can't be
removed while the Agnus is configured to access 1-meg of CHIP.
The Flicker-Free Video II, plugs under the Denise chip, with the Denise
chip plugged into the FFV-II. No soldering or hacking to the motherboard.
I haven't purchased a Flicker fixer yet, but the FFV is suppose to be
quite good.
As for the ECS Agnus and flicker… the Agnus has no effect on flicker,
but the ECS Denise (requires ECS Agnus) offers a limited 4-color VGA
screenmode that requires a VGA/multiscan and is flickerfree. The FFV-II
would be a better choice over the ECS Denise, since it removes the flicker
from all modes, and is "transparent" to programs.
The ECS Agnus (in 1-meg mode) is a desirable option since it doubles the
amount of memory used for graphics and sound. Both the ECS chips and
FFV-II can be used together.
Ron.
– ap'ing with AP. (Eagles may fly, but weasels aren't sucked
into jet engines.)
Thanks's Ron.
Everyone has been a great help in trying to educate me on this stuff.
That's why I like this forum so much.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Just to add my $.02 …. Some A500's don't like the 1-meg upgrade. This
affects mainly older revison 5 machines. They get flakey in hi-res mode.
For example, moving a large brush in Dpaint leaves 'mouse droppings' on
the screen. Sometimes changing the belly board will fix this. Since you
already have the 1-meg Agnus, you probably have a rev 6 board. But I
thought I'd mention it, just in case.
Jim
Jim,
I only have the 512k Agnus, so if I make the ugrade I'll be sure to check
it out. Thanks for the info.
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Richard,
I upgraded my 2000 with a Megachip and a Super Denise, so that I would
have the full ECS chipset. The Super Denise enables Productivity mode. I
have found that Productivity is a good, cheap flicker solution – it works
well with AP (in that mode now).
Of course, you'll need a multiscanning monitor…which you might want
anyway.
Your other option is the Flicker Free Video II unit, which will give you
VGA-like video…and the ability to use any cheapo VGA monitor. Cost
probably works out to be the same, but I can move the multiscan to an
A4000 down the road.
//Jonathan,
\\//via AutoPilot
Jonathon,
Thanks for the info.
It's beginning to sound like FFV II and a cheap monitor may be the way to
go. What's your suggestion on where to begin/look to get them?
BTW, FFV is compatible with the A500, right? (on knees, praying)
Rich – Flying the friendly AP skys
Richard,
I believe that FFV is compatible with the A500, although I don't know how
much it might strain the power supply (I would guess, not much). I would
look for the FFV mail order, the VGA monitor at any office or computer
supply place.
//Jonathan,
\\//via AutoPilot