CompuServe Thread

#PAR in Broadcast

27 messages in this thread
#79391From: Don LandisJan 27, 1994 10:31 AM
I just spoke to an animator who has been using the DPS PAR on a Toaster and outputs to a BVW-75. He is so pleased with his PAR that he stopped doing frame by frame since he acquired the PAR. None of his broadcast clients have noticed the change in recording methods. In fact, he has won an EMMY for animation in the "FRESH to YOU" TV commercial – a 30 second spot which was done for the Dept. of Agriculture and aired for a month on FOX Network.. As some would say: I guess this settles the debate as to whether the PAR will satisfy broadcasters using Betacam SP. That's all this company does is broadcast level animation.
#79409From: ALAN IGLESIASJan 27, 1994 12:48 PM
Wow. Sounds *very* promising, eh, Don? Can't _wait_ to "beat" on this thing… -Alan
#79518From: Jan 28, 1994 12:52 AM
Don: An Emmy for a broadcast animation using the PAR! I think that says it all! Greg Pyros
#79521From: Paul LindJan 28, 1994 1:05 AM
Greg, What? Emmy/Par? Paul
#79566From: Jan 28, 1994 10:04 AM
Paul: DonL relayed a story of a house that uses the PAR direct to BetaSP and won an Emmy with the output. I forwarded the original message to your e-mail. Greg Pyros
#79577From: John EllisJan 28, 1994 10:39 AM
Tell me it wasn't in the PSA category and I'll be impressed. <g> -JE
#79661From: Don LandisJan 28, 1994 9:27 PM
I didn't ask about whether it was but figure it probably was because it was done by the Florida government. So, I guess you can sleep at nights. Frankly, I don't see what all the hype is about winning these trophies. Mostly, it seems to me these winners are all political anyway. The real trophy is getting paid well to do something that is fun. Hey, I learned that we're getting two DDR's in two of our larger post houses here. I heard the rates will be $275 per hour, min 1 hour. Then you add the cost per hr. for the VCR out. Kind of expensive, don't you think?
#79695From: John TissavaryJan 29, 1994 1:44 AM
Ditto on the paid well to do fun stuff thingy =-) ! $275 is about $75 more per hour than our local post houses (PVR, etc…). And I don't know of a minimum. Maybe there's less competition where you are so they figure they can squeeze more $$$ for a little while. With the prices coming down on Abekas' DDRs as they are I'll bet they won't be the only game for long.
#79699From: John EllisJan 29, 1994 2:10 AM
Don – you're very entertaining. <g> If buying a DPS would help me sleep at night, I would! I don't care anymore than you do if people win awards with it. All the power to them. I do care that when I go to a post house, I'm not embarrassed because some dweeby editor see's an arifact that he's just dying to point out to the AD exec. I'm just trying to keep my life as uncomplicated as possible, because I can't afford to go back and redo it. So case closed on the PAR, at least for the time being. I'd like to see how its recieved and I've made the points that I thought were relevant. And I will be very interested to hear your assessment. I'm not close minded. <g> The Post houses must think they have a market for those rates, which means there must be some money around there somewhere. Is this on-line or off-line rates? If the DDR's are on-line only then of course they're probably tying up the whole suite to use it. That's what it sounds like, pretty outrageous if true. But then its their new baby. Just think in another year or so we'll be able to afford one or something like it.
#79759From: Don LandisJan 29, 1994 2:33 PM
At this point in time I've concluded that those who are using Betacam will mesh with the PAR just fine but those using D1 for everything and because of the dweeby editors then they'll probably have to wait for the next generation of PAR devices that use less than 8:1 compression to satisfy.
#79776From: John EllisJan 29, 1994 4:21 PM
Don – I really don't fit into either category, I don't use Beta and I don't use D1. I use Beta SP mostly, occasionally I still use 1" and dub to Beta SP. And half the time this through an LVR, and mostly its quick and fast and nothing to write home about. It pays and does the job. You're the pioneering spirit on this and will reap the rewards if it proves to be what you expect. And I have no reason to think it won't, given your situation and clientele. Unfortuneatley, I can't reach through the monitor and shake your hand or I would. My cyberspace module clunked out again, and I've got a pool of liquid gallium dripping off my console. But imagine that we've agreed with a handshake, and we've agreed to disagree in the future. And maybe just for fun we'll find a few things to agree on as well. <G> Quite frankly the only time we get into it, is when we don't agree and that's less than 2% of the time but takes up 90% or our conversations. But then I guess life would be a little dull without some jousting, and you're definitely a good jousting partner. 🙂
#79594From: Paul LindJan 28, 1994 12:15 PM
Greg, Thanks for the info….. I'd love to see the piece. I never knew they gave out Emmy's for commercials, I thought commercials were in a different award category. As you already know we did a test before we purchased the A65 with a group of local producers and PA's. Every single one of them easily spotted the PAR stuff and felt that it was below what we currently provide, so we decided to utilize it solely as a preview device. That being said, we have people locally who provide material for broadcast on Hi-8 as well as S-VHS, and the stuff is aired, so there is obviously a tremendous field of quality out there. One of the producers that we work with said it best when he told us that if we wanted to give the stuff to them cheap enough he could probably find a spot for my daughter's artwork, but when we're working on 6-8 figure budgets, then there is a certain level of quality that they are looking for. Paul
#79616From: John EllisJan 28, 1994 4:27 PM
Yeah, I think you're right, maybe he meant ADDY. -JE
#79641From: John TissavaryJan 28, 1994 7:01 PM
From what you tell me, your daughter is quite an artist!
#79647From: Paul LindJan 28, 1994 7:52 PM
Yeah 🙂 Well 🙂 O.K. 🙂 So maybe it's in the genes! 🙂
#79696From: John TissavaryJan 29, 1994 1:44 AM
Speaking of which… where's those .pfb cd's (don't mean to rush you or anything… <evil g>.
#79659From: Don LandisJan 28, 1994 9:27 PM
>> we're working on 6-8 figure budgets, then there is a certain level of quality that they are looking for. Wow, that's 10,000,000 d -d-d -ddollars! Maybe I should have majored in economics with a minor in math rather than chemical engineering. and you said you considered yourself not in the big leagues. <G> Or did you mean women rather than budgets? <GR&D>
#79673From: Paul LindJan 28, 1994 10:01 PM
Actually the context of the quote was their budgets not mine. The highest we've been able to go so far is 7 figures, the 8 figure mark is my desire and hope for the future. One of the projects we've bid on is a 5 year project and would be an eight figure job. I don't consider us in the "Big" leagues. We are extremely small compared to the industry leaders. We are often in situations where we purchase large amounts of equipment, and a single Challenge server can easily run over a quarter mil., plus another hundred grand for software. So we do work off of nice budgets, but when you consider that some of the "Big" houses have 75+ Onyx servers on line, it dwarfs us extremely quickly. As to the "women" remark, I've been retired for quite a while. A beautiful woman bought my contract years ago.
#79660From: Don LandisJan 28, 1994 9:27 PM
Here's the history on the Emmy award thing. About a month ago I was discussing the skepticism most of you big video high end boys were having about the PAR and that it would "never be acceptable for broadcast" and my video sales engineer told me about this client that does work for the FL Dept of Agriculture. He told me he won an Emmy last year for the piece he did that was a spot aired on FOX for a month. The piece included layered video, rotoscoping and animation. He uses a Toaster and outputs with the Amiga version of the PAR to a BVW 75. Curious, I got his phone number and called him this week. Paul, I told him about the test you did for your clients and that they all said they thought the PAR was below their acceptance quality standards. The FDA guy told me the PAR has been used for all his broadcast work and none of his clients have ever mentioned seeing any difference. He said it might be noticed on D1 but not on the BVW-75. For me the issue of the Emmy was of minor importance, but I know some of you have this thing about fame, credits, and awards so I thought I'd mention it to Greg because I thought it would be good sales info for him. I was more interested in the quantity and market this guy was hitting with the PAR. The EMMY, as I understand, was issued for the whole piece titled "Fresh to You". I didn't see it when it was on but then I don't watch more than about 30 minutes of TV a week so I do miss alot of stuff like this. The PAR was only used to help produce this piece. So if any are looking for excuses to disqualify this then let me be the first to say it was not done by any big production house nor aired on the biggest networks nor done for big clients like Pepsi, Exxon, or Ford nor was it output to D1 so I guess it really does not qualify as "broadcast." In my opinion, Paul, this technology is going to keep me competitive in the industrial video business and I am looking more and more forward to its implementation here. BTW the first of my PAR system, the TBC IV, arrived today. Was shipped direct from Canada.
#79674From: Paul LindJan 28, 1994 10:01 PM
I'm impressed! I'd love to see the piece. As you already know I'm getting a few Pars and if I find a client that says it's acceptable, I wouldn't hesitate to use it. The tests that we ran were all done on a BVW-75, and everyone picked the work. But technology is changing fast.
#80122From: SyndesisJan 31, 1994 4:07 PM
The Toaster itself got an Emmy, too… I got to touch it. 🙂 But in the past year or so, the Toaster's PR centers around LightWave and not the switching or framebuffer effects.
#79738From: Jan 29, 1994 11:57 AM
No question whatsoever on the quality differences between the $19,000 Abekas and the $1,995 PAR! Didn't mean to imply that there was a comparison! But with the largest percentage of forumites doing SVHS/Hi-8/3/4" output and dubbing down to VHS for final viewing, the PAR is definitely something to look at!
#79754From: John EllisJan 29, 1994 1:08 PM
Greg >> But with the largest percentage of forumites doing SVHS/Hi-8/3/3" output… the PAR is definitely something to look at! << Now you're talking! <g> -JE
#79983From: Jan 30, 1994 11:54 PM
John: >> Now you're talking! That's all I've ever said! I believe strongly that it deserves a look by anyone doing work in this business, no matter what the level. You can't beat the price! We just sold some PARs into a high-end graphics house who uses SGIs and expensive workstation software exclusively. They bought PCs and PC-NFS network software to connect them to their SGI network, just to be able to dump previews off quickly!! Will wonders never cease! <g>
#80004From: John EllisJan 31, 1994 1:49 AM
Greg: >> We just sold some PARs into a high-end graphics house… << I'm sure you're pleased, you're obviously the man for the job what with your knowledge of UNIX and the PAR. >> Will wonders never cease? << I certainly hope not. <G> -JE
#79862From: Steve T CahillJan 30, 1994 9:19 AM
Where can I get product info and tel # for this PAR/DPS? Regards Steve
#79984From: Jan 30, 1994 11:54 PM
Steve: Check your e-mail for PAR info! Greg Pyros