CompuServe Thread

#3DS release 4?

14 messages in this thread
#122381From: Marion K. MarksSep 6, 1994 6:19 PM
Am I the only one who is majorly disappointed in the Release 4 announcement? When I see a new version of a product in which the integer portion of the version number is incremented, I expect MAJOR NEW FEATURES added to the USER-VISIBLE portion of the MAIN PROGRAM ITSELF. I do not expect to see a few new developer's interface features added plus a heap of sample apps that make use of those features, with a few token users improvements in the main program, NOT when the INTEGER PORTION of the version number has changed! As far as I can tell from R4FEAT.TXT, there is only ONE new feature in R4 itself that is directly visible to and usable by end-users without involving IPAS plug-ins, and that is the ability of the Keyframer to operate in field mode (as opposed to just being able to render in field mode), so that keys can be set on a half-frame boundary. That's a major improvement, but so was anti-aliased text in Animator Pro and THAT didn't even justify incrementing the DECIMAL portion of the version number (it went from 1.3 to 1.3a), let alone the INTEGER portion! Also using AniPro as an example, when it added major new capabilities to its POCO language and some nifty new features in the main program itself, it only incremented the DECIMAL portion of the version number, albeit by a heftier jump than usual (1.0 to 1.3). I expected R4 to implement several new features within the main program (such as object cameras, infinite mapping, etc.) and whole new classes of IPAS routines (such as .RXPs for Rendering eXternal Processes such as Raytracing and Radiosity) which couldn't easily be implemented via existing IPAS capabilities. R4 may be able to fake object cameras via its new Keyframer Scripting .KXP, but that is a kludge. REAL object cameras would've been much better for just about everyone concerned. As for Raytracing, I just don't see that as being possible on a per-material basis (so that one need not raytrace a whole scene just to get some water droplets on a tabletop to refract) without something like .RXPs. I suppose Microsloth started this trend with Messy-DOS 3.x, which wasn't anywhere near as much of an improvement over Messy-DOS 2.x as 2.x was over 1.x (the latter was warmed-over CP/M-86, while 2.x added XENIX-compatible handle-based heirarchical file structure such as subdirectories and I/O redirection), and the change from 5.0 to 6.0 was a joke! It added only a very few user improvements to the DOS itself, and instead added a pile of utilities such as the third-party had all along. Speaking of DOS, by tying R4 to it still, I feel 3DS has dug itself into a pit which will spell the end of its dominance in this field. With Real-3D, Caligari TrueSpace, and a host of others out or coming out for Windoze, and with 3DS's flat-out inability to run AT ALL under Windoze Empty (even in DOS emulation mode! — and remember, under Windoze Empty and Windoze 4.0 aka Chicago, there is NO MORE REAL DOS ON THE MACHINE unless you're willing to resort to Dual Boot or Boot Manager or booting off of floppies or some such!!), people who are trying to get away from DOS will be a much harder "sell" than they were. Yes, I know the main reason for this is that existing IPASes are tied to the Intel/DOS/Phar Lap architecture. But working on means to allow IPASes to be re-compiled with minor modifications would lower that hurdle. Of course, Real-3D doesn't have this problem since its extensibility is done by an actual programming language included in the system rather than a set of developer APIs. IPAS's power helps keep 3DS competitive in power and features, but its dependence on Intel/DOS/Phar Lap may offset that by keeping 3DS tied to an obsolescent — dare I say downright obsolete? — architecture, at a time when the rest of the industry is abandoning it in droves.
#122406From: Jamie Clay [DPh]Sep 6, 1994 8:38 PM
>> Am I the only one who is majorly disappointed in the Release 4 announcement? Yup (so far)- but if you want, you can call it 3.5 and buy something else. Oh the power of pure capitalism, vote with your wallet! J-me
#122447From: krazy imagesSep 6, 1994 10:39 PM
. vote with your wallet! . Amen! <g> The decision power is always in the user side, never in the company side. If a product is bad it simply won't sell (well, Windoze is maybe the only exception to this rule <g>). If it doesn't sell, it will be better to the company to change it. Market won't give a second try, though. Fortunately for 3DS, all the 3DSers I know are getting ready to get r4 on their hands ASAP 🙂 And anyway, what is this name thing about? Call it the Micky Mouse Studio if you want! <g> I only know that it will save us a lot of work, time and money. ana /krazy images
#122471From: ALAN IGLESIASSep 6, 1994 11:51 PM
>>Mickey Mouse Studio<< <g> -Alan
#122454From: Yost GroupSep 6, 1994 10:55 PM
I'm sorry that you feel that way, but where is it written that a new integer version of the software has to play by any specific rules? (or yours, for that matter) The entire point behind 3DSr4 is that we identified some functionality that our customers badly needed to get specific jobs done (inverse kinematics, patch modeling, motion scripting, perspective matching, etc) and we wanted to get that functionality to them as fast as possible. Although not optimal in a best-of-all-possible-worlds scenario, these tools will certainly make some very hard jobs much easier, and some impossible jobs possible. I can promise you that we're doing quite a bit of work on future technology that'll impress everyone, but if I told you about it, I'd get into an incredible amount of trouble with some nice people that I don't want to p*ss off. But the bottom line is that we care so much about what our customers need, that we're providing some very important tools in a very timely way. Who cares what the number of the release is? And finally, regarding the DOS platform… Currently, there is no other platform that's solid enough, offers the range of vtr controllers, output devices, etc, to support a production-oriented animation system that someone can use to COUNT ON to run their business (ie, put food on the table). We're certainly not going to wait around for all the pieces to come together to give our customers the new features that we put into the plug-ins in R4. – G
#122500From: bruce gorenSep 7, 1994 3:16 AM
Gary, Also it should be pointed out that you refer to the upcoming goodies as 3DSr4 . That "r" stands for the word "release", not "version". So I think the integer increment is valid, even though many in the computer trade are used to a numbering style where versions and thier decimals used to be an inconsistant secret code for what stage of de-bugging the software you just bought had gone through so far. You may recall that I also (jokingly) referred to r4 as (3.5?) in a private E-mail to you some time back, but I think your choice of numbering has been consistant and understandable. Considering how cheap it is to upgrade from release 3 to release 4 it's amazing that anyone would split hairs about the nomenclature. You are offering more upgrade bang for the buck than anyone in the industry ever has– I'll take value over appearances any day. Bruce
#123176From: Jack WalshSep 10, 1994 5:56 PM
Well said. Tough luck if they don't like it! Keep up the good work. Go for the Power PC platform as DOS will most likely die in the next couple of years. -Jack.
#122528From: SyndesisSep 7, 1994 9:37 AM
I don't think there's any "rule" that says what's supposed to be in a major release. What about the companies who've jumped from major release 1.0 directly to 3.0? (Usually this happens when their closest competitor just jumped to 2.0. 🙂
#122552From: Sep 7, 1994 11:07 AM
>> What about the companies who've jumped from major release 1.0 directly to >> 3.0? I even remember a big company who jumped a release # from 2.6 to 9.0 <bg> Greg Pyros
#122602From: SyndesisSep 7, 1994 2:07 PM
I wasn't very AutoCAD-savvy at that 2.6 to Release 9 jump – what was the official reason?
#122616From: Sep 7, 1994 3:11 PM
John: If I remember correctly, there were a few reasons, but one of the big ones was that they were trying to hold the 3.0 release name until AutoCAD went full 3D. They then realized that Intergraph was telling people that they were only in the 2nd major release of the program, and that ACAD was still too new to use. So they went back and counted up the major releases, ended up with 9, and that's what they called their next version! So now they are on the unlucky 13th version coming out in November. We'll see how their luck holds out. Greg Pyros
#122538From: John StetzerSep 7, 1994 10:31 AM
Sorry to respond to another thread here (the 'newcamera' one), but I accidently deleted that one. Why not just link the camera and target in a dummy object? That way you'd have a 'box' with a camera out one size. I realise this doesn't address the banking issue, but it would give a guide to doing the rolls. Or did I miss something in the message? John Stetzer JWS
#122541From: M. G. BATCHELORSep 7, 1994 10:57 AM
How can you say that adding IK, Patch Modeling, Scripting Language, et al is essentially insignifigant ? I don't get it. Also, being a hard-core realist, I'm happy to have 3DS stay a DOS app. for now – for numerous reasons. I have used / tested all the Windows 3D app's you mentioned, and they are literally a joke wrt 3DS for *_serious_* production work. Sure, an interesting feature here & there, but put it all together and they're unuseable IMO. BILL
#122768From: merlin farmerSep 8, 1994 8:04 AM
What other animation software? I must say it. For me, 3DS to animation is like Harley Davidson to motorcycles. I would not own a Honda if someone gave it to me. Although the Honda technology appears to excede that of a Harley, I would rather have something safe, reliable, and easy to work on or modify. Don't take me wrong, I do not even own a Harley right now, (sold it to buy computer stuff), but I think I could be classified as a die hard 3DS user. As an end user, I will not change products or platforms. I have a suspicion that I am not the only die hard 3DSer, and as someone pretty much mentioned in this thread, it is the end user that makes the product successfull. Whew, I feel better, now back to that DOS file allocation problem I was working on (g) Merlin