CompuServe Thread

#Network Rendering

33 messages in this thread
#79519From: Conrad StolzeJan 28, 1994 12:58 AM
I am running several 486/66's on a Pathworks Network running off a VAX server. We have a pretty substantial amount of traffic (over 500 systems are running off this network during peak hours). When I try to use network rendering, I get anywhere from a 50%-95% slowdown in rendering, as compared to a machine running the files locally. I have tried bumping all the Net-Poll and other options in the 3DSNET.SET file up to their upper values, to no avail. Our network is sluggish, but should not cause these kinds of problems. For example, rendering the Autodesk Duck locally took 10 seconds (486/66 32MB RAM). On the network machine the time was almost 10 minutes! Time ratios go down for larger files, but I'm taking a pretty big rendering time hit that I don't beleive I should have. Any Ideas?
#79562From: Yost GroupJan 28, 1994 10:01 AM
A Pathworks Network on a VAX server, eh… Since Network Rendering should only detract about .2-.5% from a single machine's performance, I'd say that something pretty bizarre is going on in VAX-land. That type of hardware configuration is completely foreign to me, so I think I'm going to have to defer to others on the forum who have more experience with highly non-standard network environments. Greg? – G
#79741From: Jan 29, 1994 11:58 AM
Sounds spooky! We are installing a PC-NFS network on a VAX for a client Monday, I'll let you know! Never tried Pathworks, though, heard some negative things about it recently. Anyone else running Pathworks and care to talk about it? Greg Pyros
#79749From: Conrad StolzeJan 29, 1994 12:41 PM
Greg, PC-NFS I have never had a problem with. This one is a stumper! Chuck PS From my experiences with Pathworks, I would like to comment about it! But that is one of those Cereal Malt conversations that we'll have in CA! <BG> Oooops, I just justified the Dr's earlier comment!
#80001From: Conrad StolzeJan 31, 1994 1:17 AM
Just to give you some more info on my problem (rendering with Pathworks on a VAX server), I have used the stock 3dsnet.set file (other than machine names and ID's) and then I have changed all net timing settings to their supposed MAX values and run the same file with no noticable difference in performance (10 minutes plus a few in both cases). When I render the duck on that same machine locally, I get 10 seconds. Maybe if I could understand what types of things were happening during Net Rendering, I could run it past our Pathworks/VAX gurus and make some sense out of it. I use net rendering all the time on my home stuff with no performance hit, so it makes no sense to me…
#80051From: Yost GroupJan 31, 1994 10:15 AM
The only thing that 3DS does during net rendering is check signal files on shared drives throughout the system. That kind of performance hit that you're seeing on the VAX server is probably illustrating a serious problem with the file system somewhere. Perhaps one of the networking experts here on the forum would have some ideas for you to try. – G
#80071From: Jonas Ruikis [ADESK]Jan 31, 1994 11:49 AM
Conrad, << network rendering >> have you downloaded 3dsnet.txt from the what's new library? jonas[adesk]
#80232From: Feb 1, 1994 1:28 AM
We just installed a 3DS network on a VAX today and it renders flawlessly. We used PC-NFS, and the install was easy. You might want to get a copy to test on your system to see if it has anything to do with PathWorks… Chuck may be able to refer you to a good dealer out there! <bg>
#80311From: Dan KemmisFeb 1, 1994 10:58 AM
Oops… Caught lurking again… How would Chuck be able to find a good dealer? Oh, thats right… He's a powerful member of tha… Silenced like a lamb… Bahhhh Dr Pixel
#80327From: ROBERT RITGERFeb 1, 1994 11:53 AM
Greg: Please elaborate on the setup you've installed on the VAX. This arrangement may be in my future. Thanks. Bob
#80558From: Feb 2, 1994 2:23 AM
Robert: PC-NFS (from Sun Microsystems) is the software that allows PCs to talk to UNIX servers the same way that UNIX machines talk to other UNIX machines with NFS. It works great with 3D Studio, and every other program we've tried on it. We have 18 PCs hooked up to three Sun Workstations here and it works great! We have installed this system at most of our larger client's sites, and have had no problems with it, which is more than I can say for most of the other networking solutions we have seen out there. I've hooked up to Suns, SGIs, and even PCs running UNIX with it! Greg Pyros
#80600From: BITSFeb 2, 1994 4:28 AM
Greg, What software do you run on your Sun's? AutoCAD? (Are there some essential MMedia tools I'm unaware of??) BITS
#80668From: Feb 2, 1994 10:41 AM
We run AutoCAD, in addition to a great network flight simulator called Aviator on the Suns! They also do all our networking, e-mail, printing, plotting, modeming, backups, and don't go down! By far the most robust network I've ever worked with. If you ever want to translate 2,000 graphics files, Image Alchemy running on a Sparc 10 with a local hard disk cannot be beat! We also run Frame, and other DTP software. We tried Wavefront and 3D GIG, but stay with 3DS for rendering.
#80818From: ROBERT RITGERFeb 2, 1994 9:03 PM
At my office we have 48 Vaxstations and I thought you were describing a network hookup to a Vax so it piqued my interest. Is there anyway that you know of for me to tap into this resource for 3ds? Via pathworks we have only two PC's able to access the VAX network. I'm hoping as we transition over to ALPHA workstations and our CADD software (GDS) is ported to NT that 3ds by that time will also run on the ALPHA under NT and I will suddenly have the most powerful render farm on the east coast!! I've gotten advanced word that GDS is going to have an important announcement about the software and NT. I haven't seen any flap here about the upcoming DX4 overdrive chips. Touted as being faster than pentiums I figured the messages would be flying. Any ideas?
#80883From: Feb 3, 1994 2:20 AM
No, 3DS only runs on 386 class PC's. You'll need to get a few of them to get your render farm going!
#80980From: ROBERT RITGERFeb 3, 1994 10:21 AM
I was wondering if running some kind of DOS emulation would work. Don't know any product except SoftPC that may do this. I got a bunch of PC's lying around but most are diskless so I think this makes them useless as well for a render farm.
#80907From: John TissavaryFeb 3, 1994 3:45 AM
I can't see DX4s being faster than pentiums, because the pentium is a better chip design. Certainly where FPU performance is a key factor the Pentium should win out, it's definitely more sophisticated than the 486's. Perhaps with Excel or Word for Windows, or some other boring, integer bound software it'll give the Pentium a run for its money, but who cares about that (other than 99% of PC users <g>)?
#80981From: ROBERT RITGERFeb 3, 1994 10:21 AM
>>>who cares about that (other than 99% of PC users <g>)? <<< John: You got it, that other 99% are really screwing things up for us real professionals. <g> I hadn't heard any supposed performance numbers on the DX4 chip but Computer World gave it front page space and prejudged it to be faster than the Pentium (doing what, it didn't say). I've learned not to take articles like this too seriously but I like to keep up on what's available.
#81116From: John TissavaryFeb 3, 1994 8:09 PM
There is only one computer mag that I really trust for info, and that's BYTE. They really seem to take the long view, and the time to address subjects beyond the "buisness apps" bound stuff that ruins PC and all those other boring rags. I'm sure there are probably other great computer mags out there, but I don't know of any. Of course the graphics trade mags are always fun if you can find one that doesn't spend 90% of the time talking about MACs. CGW is about my favorite at this point.
#81179From: ROBERT RITGERFeb 4, 1994 12:30 AM
>>>Of course the graphics trade mags are always fun if you can find one that doesn't spend 90% of the time talking about MACs.<<< Finding a graphics mag without overcoverage for Mac is as easy as finding a brief message from Marion K. Marks <g,d&r>
#81053From: Fred W. HeidingsfelderFeb 3, 1994 3:15 PM
I just read an article in ??Computer News?? or something like that about the new chips. They claimed that there indeed was a speed difference and that the DX4's were faster. I believe they credited the difference to motherboard design and non optimized software. Their prediction was that this is short lived and should not be a reason for purchasing long term. I'm thinking that this might be a good bridge for an upgradable before you bite the bullet and buy a built for pentium machine. This way you have a MB already for the 486 chip and a faster chip. Although I have heard and found that upgrading a machine is often not a good way to spend money. Better to buy another computer and put the old one on the farm.
#81117From: John TissavaryFeb 3, 1994 8:09 PM
Yeah, I did that, but then the old computer was sooo much slower than the others that I upgraded it anyway <g>. It just killed me to watch it do half hour frames where the others would take like 15 minutes or something. Of course, now I don't have money to upgrade anything, so I've decided to be completely grateful and content with what I've got for a change. John Tissavary (La Luna cie)
#81340From: Fred W. HeidingsfelderFeb 4, 1994 3:51 PM
John, Yeah, right! Fred
#80538From: Conrad StolzeFeb 2, 1994 2:15 AM
Greg (and Dan), Do you guys practice this routine? As I always seem to be in a two on one battle! Conrad, I as much as I hate to admit it right now (with Greg here and Dan lurking somewhere amidst the puffed wheat), I have three office copies of NFS that are not being used and I could send right up! They're on the way! Chuck
#80669From: Feb 2, 1994 10:41 AM
Chuck: We just want to make sure you don't get bored out there in the flatlands! <g> Greg Pyros
#80931From: Conrad StolzeFeb 3, 1994 7:01 AM
I wish I could give PC-NFS a try. I have a feeling it's not a possibility for our network people, though. Even if they wanted to try it (I beleive it has already been implemented and disbanded here – for what reason, I'm not sure), it wouldn't go over too well with the higher ups. They're very interested in pushing TDI on the SGI platform (not my first choice for architectural animation), and any time spent with Studio wouldn't be seen as a priority. Maybe once I get my current project finished, I can talk some sense into them, since I'm outperforming their current TDI designer in both production speed and quality. Also, to be fair to our network guys — we don't have enough of them for the amount of users we have, and pulling them off of normal duties to figure out a single isolated problem would be considered a very low priority. I'll try to ZIP up those SET files for you (I use CSERVE from my home machine and keep forgetting to grab them before I leave the office), but I don't think you'll see anything out of the ordinary… P.S. You know — I really am getting tired of being the only person who's having a problem with these things! Since I don't have these problems on my personal equipment, I can only chalk it up to some sort of conspiracy at the office!
#80993From: Feb 3, 1994 10:40 AM
It is a gremlin unleashed by TDI on your office equipment! Quick, take two 3D Studios and call me in the morning!
#81118From: John TissavaryFeb 3, 1994 8:09 PM
TDI was acquired by Wavefront and will be part of Wavefront releases in the future. I'm not sure that it can be had as a stand alone product anymore.
#79569From: Jan 28, 1994 10:04 AM
Conrad: No way! Something is really wrong with your setup, the network per se really has nothing to do with rendering speed of a machine unless it is doing something really crazy like swapping across the network or something like that. You are saying that the same machine with the same setup renders the identical file in 10 seconds if you just hit 'render view' and 10 minutes if it is in 'render slave' mode? ZIP up your 3DSNET.SET file and send it to me, I'll be glad to take a look at it for you! Greg Pyros
#79668From: Conrad StolzeJan 28, 1994 9:55 PM
Greg, Does Gus have that slave renderer ready for SGI's yet? <VeryBG> Chuck
#80000From: Conrad StolzeJan 31, 1994 1:16 AM
I am having these rendering problems with the default 3dsnet.set files (other than machine names & ID's). There is no difference (give or take a few seconds) in performance when I kick all net-poll and other net timing values up to their MAX values. I've taken the matter up with our system admin and he has no ideas. Maybe if I understood exactly what was happening with net-polls, etc., I might be able to get a better grip on this. I'm using the same 3dsnet.set settings on my network at home (LanTastic) with no problems whatsoever. CS
#79580From: Angelo Guarino [DTI Inc]Jan 28, 1994 10:53 AM
Conrad, >> I'm taking a pretty big rendering time hit that I don't beleive I should have. Any Ideas?<< The best way to compare apples to apples is compare the same job rendering on the net and locally _on_the_same_machine_. You can do this by rendering to the net queue and selecting "any". Before this, make sure there are no other slaves available. Then make the same machine that you are working on a slave. These are the times you want to compare .. see if you still have such a large difference. Ang
#79667From: Conrad StolzeJan 28, 1994 9:55 PM
Ang, As a friend of Conrad's (not his dealer though) let me quote the Mountain Dew commercial and say… Did That, Done ThAT, Tried THAT, BEEN THERE ……. AAARRRGGGHHH! Chuck