#Fossil Treatise question
15 messages in this thread
I entered this section because my son is a geology student at the University
of Missouri at Kansas City. He is particularly interested in Pennsylvanian
fossils. He has plans to join CompuServe, but neither he nor I is experienced
in navigating through the thing.
The question: Is it possible to access the Treatise of Invertebrate
Paleontology on-line? Would he be able to do a search of the treatise on
Pennsylvanian fossils? Is it possible to download parts of the treatise? Is it
possible to download illustrations?
Hi, Alice–
I think if the Treatise of Invertebrate Paleontology were directly available
on CIS it would be in this forum, but I have not seen it.
Someone might have placed it on-line via the Internet. CIS does not yet supply
access to the Internet beyond E-mail, though a change is rumored. As a
university student, your son may well have free access to the Internet, and
might be able to find it using Internet search tools.
But as a rule, textbooks and the like for geology do not seem often available
on-line. I hope this will change soon.
What he will find here are people knowledgeable about Pennsylvanian fossils;
Jerry has so many in his sometime backyard that he throws extras at woodchucks.
–Doug
As Doug has pointed out, your son may have access to the Internet on his
University Account. If so, he should look into using "Gopher" which is a way
of getting at all sorts of inforamation, and somewhere out there, there may be
what he is looking for. If he is a graduate student, he can ask his fellow
grad students how to go about this. If he is not, he should find a graduate
student who can help him out.
Good Luck!
GTL
– Greg Laden, Written 25-Sep-1994 @ 20:37:28
Using: Windows NavCIS PRO 1.25
Has your son ever checked out the Pennsylvanian fossils at Parkwood (?)
College, just outside KC MO? There's a nice, small collecting site there.
Yes, John. I believe you are referring to Parkville, a private school in
Parkville, MO. I have an older son who graduated from there (business degree).
I'm pretty sure my younger son (the geology undergrad, who is 23) is aware of
that site. He may have perhaps the best collection of fossils found in the KC
area. Road cuts provide the best source, I think. (We've GOT to get this kid on
here for himself!) I do appreciate your help and that of the others. You're a
nice bunch. (I just clicked on the "Out Basket," and I don't know what
happened. If you get this twice, sorry. I'll just click on "Send" now.)
I sometimes travel to the KC area on business. I've tried to find good
collecting spots, but I haven't had much luck so far! Parkville College had
some nice Pennsylvanian plant fossils. I'd love to talk to your son and find
out about his sites!
He is sitting with me right now. He wants to know what kind of fossils you
are interested in. (He's the one who found the Parkville site.) His comments
follow:
"Common fossils include fusulinids, horn corals, sponges, bryozoans,
brachiopods, gastropods, pelecypods, and crinoid fragments;
Articulated crinoids, trilobites and other arthropods, cephalopods, and fish
bones and teeth are present, but are somewhat difficult to find. Plants, such
as the ones at Parkville, are found at widely scattered sites, but abundant
when found. This currently is the only plant site that I know of that hasn't
been depleted."
I've tried to check out the sites listed in popular books, but some of the
references were so old, the sites were gone. I had some luck checking out road
cuts between Topeka and Lawrence, finding many brachipods and gastropods. I
thought the Parkville site was wonderful. I had the impression that site was
found many years ago. If your son has any tips on finding fossils in such soft
shale, I'd love to hear them! I wish I'd had a big knife when I went there; it
was so soft.
I actually had a lot of fun exploring a hillside road cut no more than a
stone's throw from the parking lot of the Sears store in the mall on the west
side of Topeka. By sifting through this, I found many barely weathered crinoid
pieces, bryozoan fragments, bits of coal, shell fragments, and even a small
pyritized cephalopod , everything was quite abundant, but I'm sure there are
plenty of roadcuts in your area are like this. Of course, I'd love to find a
few trilobites, but if he could point me to a few road cuts, I'd be happy!
Hi, John. My son is here. (He doesn't have his own CompuServe logon yet.)
The following comments are his:
The Parkville site is only a couple of years old. The swarm of collectors
hunting at the site made it appear like it was several years old! The way I
have collected at this site is to find cracks and joints in the shale. I then
pulled out big chunks of the shale, and tapped them with a hammer, until plants
begin to appear. This is a hit and miss procedure. The biggest challenge is not
finding plants, but getting the big chunks out of the cliff face.
Trilobites are most "common" in the Winterset limestone, which is a cherty,
medium bedded limestone that is found in the southeastern part of the Kansas
City area. Trilobites have been found in this layer at Gregory Blvd./I-435 east
and Blue River Rd. south of I-435.
The easiest way to locate an outcropping of Winterset is to first find the
Bethany Falls limestone, which is the thick unit below the Winterset, separated
by about 4 feet of shale. It is a massive limestone that looks a lot like
weathered concrete. It forms huge blocks (often 20 feet wide) that slide down
the slopes.
In the Parkville shale, I found several species of ferns, reeds, some larger
disintegrating stumps, a few horsetails. What sorts of things have you found?
Some of the plant pieces have amazing 3D-qualities, as if they were buried in
mud not long ago. I also made the mistake of touching some of the fossils –
they were so fine and fragile, they disappeared. What sorts of methods of
preservation have you tried? Has anyone ever found any animal remains in this
shale?
Here's my son's comments:
I have found the same types of fossils that you have. To preserve these
plant fossils, use a very thin spray lacquer, preferably one that has minimal
gloss. The only animal that has been found that I know of is a millipede, but
this is after several people hunting the site over two years.
Your son should get his own account! I have plenty of extra Compuserve "snap
pack" sing-up kits that include a small time credit and a reduced sign-up fee,
if you like, I'd be glad to send him on. It sounds like he'd make another
great Dixon contributor to the Science Forum!
As I said in my last message, I'd love to find more roadcuts in the stretch
between Topeka and Kansas City. For example, I had a somewhat apocryphal story
from a friend. He said someone once drove him from Topeka to the KCI airport
via some back-roads, in order to "save time". This friend stopped at one point
to show him an incredibly fossil-laden roadcut. I went to the original source,
and the driver on this trip had no idea of what I was talking about, although
the passenger insists it happened this way. This happened within the last five
years or so.
As for Parkville fossils, how large are the nicest, largest pieces you've seen
pulled from there? When I was there last time (last January), I hoped that
someday someone would use some stronger earth-moving equipment to scrape away
more of the hillside underneath a particularly fruitful horizon on the left
side, under a tree, if you face the cut.
Also, when I went inside the hill (?!) to ask permission, I found that the
grounds crew had no idea that this site existed. They gave me permission, and
afterwards, I gave them a few samples to adorn their desks. I also left a few
pieces lined up along a bank at the site for the next person. I travel by air,
and I don't have a lot of space for heavy fossils!
Also inside the school, I saw the displays that talked about the local
formation. Did you have a hand in putting those together? Does the school
have another display or collection of the local fossils? The science hall was
closed the weekend I visited.
Hi, John. My son's name is Mitch Magee. He will be getting a 7100 PowerPC
shortly through the Apple Campus Direct program. That's when he plans to get
his CompuServe account. He does see the potential benefit of on-line services.
Anyway, here's Mitch:
I would also love to find collecting sites in this area. I am familiar only
with the Kansas City and Lansing groups of the Missourian Series in the Kansas
City area. There are some productive beds in the Douglas and Shawnee groups of
the Virgil series. One of these is the Beil limestone, which can be found on
I-70 six miles west of the West Lawrence Interchange. It is a layer composed of
alternating shales and limestones. Brachiopods and corals can be found here. It
is near a microwave tower next to an overpass. Another site lies along Holliday
drive at its interchange with I-435 at the Kansas River, south of I-70. This
has been the prime crinoid spot in years past. Other than the place west of
Lawrence, I haven't had much luck with finding any good spots outside of KC
toward Topeka.
I have seen few large pieces of the Parkville material due to the rock's
lack of bedding (large pieces easily snap). Although I don't know of any large
fronds being found in the claystone, I think the best plant fossils are the
seed cones, which are small, but have excellent detail.
I'm not too familiar with Park College. Before finding the site, I had heard
of large Lepidodendron casts being found in Parkville. I explored the area
until stumbling upon a big pit in the hillside. I found a huge amount of
material because at that time, the site was untouched by collectors, and large
chunks full of plants were scattered around.
I was suprised to hear that Park College has such a display. I know that
Park College has no geology department, and its fossil collection is locked
away in a dungeon, a relic of a bygone era.
Yes, John. I believe you are referring to Parkville, a private school in
Parkville, MO. I have an older son who graduated from there (business degree).
I'm pretty sure my younger son (the geology undergrad, who is 23) is aware of
that site. He may have perhaps the best collection of fossils found in the KC
area. Road cuts provide the best source, I think. (We've GOT to get this kid on
here for himself!) I do appreciate your help and that of the others. You're a
nice bunch.