#We're not alone
9 messages in this thread
>I guarantee that a correctly installed OS/2 (while possibly more of a hassle)
will be infinitely more stable than any Microsoft incarnation. Compare OS/2 to
Windows NT. Everyone agrees that NT is a vastly superior operating system to
Windows 3.1 & Win95. Take a look at the hardware incompatibility list for it
sometime. IBM should be embarrassed because the PC industry is a quagmire of
barely compatible products?<
After using NT for the last 6 months I can say it is the future OS for most
uses. I predict the two dominant OS's in the next few years will be NT and
unix. OS/2, Mac, and DOS are going to fade away. NT doesn't support as much
hardware as Win3.1/Win95, but everything I have is supported. I have PCI SCSI,
PCI video, HP DAT, 7 disk CD Changer, ISDN, and PVR. The only reason I boot DOS
is to run 3D Studio and an occasional game. I don't ever boot Win95, all my
Windows apps fly in NT.
While I can see why Amiga owners would like OS/2 I don't think jumping from a
dead horse to a dying horse is a good idea. After watching the Amiga die a slow
death I don't want to go through that with an OS again, and OS/2 is on a
downhill slide just like the Amiga was since 1988. The Toaster allowed it to
drag out longer than it should.
>Then again, everyone develops for Microsoft. Oh, well. I guess you either have
a good OS, or you have applications to run (and crash).<
My partner uses OS/2 and I use NT. I laugh when he brags how great OS/2 is, but
he has no native apps. If I wanted an OS without software I would have stuck
with the Amiga.
"If I wanted an OS without software I would have stuck with the Amiga."
Great bumper sticker material! <G>
Jerry
>I predict the two dominant OS's in the next few years will be NT and unix.
I agree whole heartedly. NT is the future of PCs. IBM lost the OS war the same
way they lost PCs as a whole, they did not provide software apps. (well they
sort of did in DOS, but they sucked.)
Tim,
PMFJI >…on a downhill slide just like the Amiga was since 1988.
Your opinion only?
>…The Toaster allowed it to drag on longer than it should.
Why didn't Newtek develop the Toaster and the Flyer FIRST for the IBM clones
(or NT for that matter) if they are so great? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?
The Amiga may have fallen back a bit with a company that didn't market it well
in the past, but exactly how much RAM and HD space do you need for Windows NT?
You've got to admit that it is something for the Amiga do what it can do with
as little as 1/2 – 1 MB of memory with maybe 1MB of HD space.
Sorry, but the AMIGA is not a dead horse.
Patrick White
Celebrating 10 years of the AMIGA !
>PMFJI >…on a downhill slide just like the Amiga was since 1988.
>Your opinion only?<
It sure hasn't been heading uphill. Some people go down with the ship.
>>…The Toaster allowed it to drag on longer than it should.
>Why didn't Newtek develop the Toaster and the Flyer FIRST for the IBM clones
(or NT for that matter) if they are so great? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?<
The Toaster was great when it came out in 1990. I got one of the first ones in
October 1990 with 0.9 software, serial number #1157. It is still has the
highest quality for what it costs. I'd say the nearest competitor is the
Alladin. The problem is that it is tied to the Amiga. The hardware specs of the
Amiga are very outdated. The other big problem is that the Toaster is a
composite device that degrades the signal when used with component equipment.
If I have an IBM I wouldn't consider the Windows Toaster, I'd spend the extra
money and get an Alladin.
>The Amiga may have fallen back a bit with a company that didn't market it well
in the past, but exactly how much RAM and HD space do you need for Windows NT?<
Fallen back a bit? That an understatement if I've ever heard one.
Windows NT needs 16MB and 100MB HD space, same as what the Toaster requires.
>You've got to admit that it is something for the Amiga do what it can do with
as little as 1/2 – 1 MB of memory with maybe 1MB of HD space.<
I know. I could multitask on my 256K A1000 when I got it back in '86. It was
superior to the MS-DOS clones, but the amount of money spent on improving DOS
machines has allowed it to surpass the Amiga.
>Sorry, but the AMIGA is not a dead horse.<
Some people would say the same for the C64, Atari ST, Coleco Adam, PC Jr.
Tim,
PMFJIH, re: your quote:
>>If I have an IBM I wouldn't consider the Windows Toaster, I'd spend the extra
money and get an Alladin.<<
Like yourself I was one of the very first to get the original Toaster and have
upgraded every step of the way ever since. I also have the Alladin (which now
has Mac software as well as Windows). While I agree that the Alladin has many
features the Toaster lacks such as a true 3-D DVE with no pixelization,
component/SVHS in/out capabilities, Chroma key, multi channel keys, and a
platform base that is more widely supported (IBM/MAC control software) there
are still many things that it doesn't do nearly as well as the Toaster that we
have today. The obvious standout is Lightwave vs Crystal Topaz, but for those
not into 3-D the other issue is the implementation of the Inscriber CG (IBM)
and Comet CG (Mac). The ease of use on the Toaster's CG is by far and away more
practical, and where there may be issues of stylized presentation (read as
"fancy CG styles) you can use Alphapaint (or Montage on 3.1 Toaster
installations) to accomplish naything that Inscriber or Comet can do.
I find that for the very first iteration of Alladin's software it has a lot
going for it. I look forward to further improvement however before I completely
give up on Toaster. If we look back on all the improvements we have seen from
Newtek in the 5 years of Toaster, it is quite astonishing just how much better
the Toaster has gotten (at least on the software side, Tpaint not withstanding)
and it's only natural to wait until the next generation of Alladin software
(and possibly hardware) before passing final judgement.
Anyone entering the video production field at the present moment and wants to
own their own gear has a lot of important questions to ask. Such as those
relating to platform viability. Amiga might be coming back, but in limited
distribution, and for how long we don't know. The mac and PC platforms as we
know them today will probably cease to exist in any recognizable form within
the next three years. While items like the Alladin (a self contained CPU with
control software operating from another computer) can migrate easily to new
platforms, the Toaster (even the PC version) may have a rocky road ahead of
them but with the introduction of the PC Toaster which utilizes a similar
approach as the Alladin with respect to a seperate CPU to control a black box,
that might not be the concern it once was. NLE integration is another factor.
Flyer is not the right system for everyone, but it answers the needs of a large
segment of users that require a certain level of image quality as well full
integration and ease of use.
When I am asked by others who are afraid of buying into technology that will
soon be obsolete, I will often recomment that they buy a used system that does
the job they need to do today and in many cases that system is a used Toaster
package, considered by many to be obsolete. No anxieties about it's future,
because it really doesn't have one, it's got a great past and a workable
present. Anyone who really thinks they are going to purchase technology that
won't soon be replaced by something better, faster, cheaper…is deluding
themselves. Why not just get the best tool for the job at hand at the best
price and make your money NOW while the oppourtunity is available. While there
are valid concerns about service and parts availability on the Amiga front, I
have found that having a backup system is a worthy investment. By the way, my
Amiga systems have been cranking steadily without much of any trouble, so my
back up systems are utilized for other tasks, not just sitting in boxes.
Didn't mean to get off on a rant.
Frank
>Anyone who really thinks they are going to purchase technology that won't soon
be replaced by something better, faster, cheaper…is deluding themselves. Why
not just get the best tool for the job at hand at the best price and make your
money NOW while the oppourtunity is available.<
You said it all right there. I was telling OpalVision users this same thing
years ago when they were fantasizing about their coming Toaster Killer. First
it was coming in October, then November, etc. Last I heard it never shipped.
>>Windows NT needs 16MB and 100MB HD space, same as what the Toaster
requires.<<
At least the Toaster DOES something after 18Megs , with NT you just barely woke
up the OS and 16 Megs of Ram are used. Today I got en error message saying
running low on Virtual memeory. Including 40Megs of room heaters and a 52Meg
Virtual Ram,what it doing Lightwave was the only ap open and their wasnt even a
scene loaded. What's it doin?
>>Windows NT needs 16MB and 100MB HD space, same as what the Toaster
requires.<<
>At least the Toaster DOES something after 18Megs , with NT you just barely
woke up the OS and 16 Megs of Ram are used. Today I got en error message saying
running low on Virtual memeory. Including 40Megs of room heaters and a 52Meg
Virtual Ram,what it doing Lightwave was the only ap open and their wasnt even a
scene loaded. What's it doin?<
That's a good question. I have a P100/40MB RAM with a 120MB pagefile. Running
several apps doesn't use pagefile until I start using graphics in Photoshop.
Maybe LW does something different with the swap file or you have
software/hardware conflicts.
I also have a 486/66/16MB machine running NT Server with a 45MB pagefile.
Opening more than 2-3 apps and it starts swapping to disk.
Even if you need more RAM I think the ability to use fast Pentium/Alpha
machines and hires displays for LW makes any Amiga look pale in comparison. I
read Amblin was doing renders that need 400MB.
I loved my 3000/68040 Amiga/Toaster when I had it. I sold it 2 years ago and
moved to MS-DOS/Windows. I lately started working for a place that has a
Toaster system and besides the fact that I forgot alot of things about the
Amiga I realized how primative it is compared to Windows. It's a shame they had
a lead, but they didn't keep up with it.