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#What would you say?
15 messages in this thread
Everyone seems to have missd the point.
What I said was that the ads were targeted at MS/DOS users. We have
been shipping the PC version of Portfolio for just about a year now.
For the past three months or so, there has been a banner across the top
of the ads that indicate that Mac, ST and Amiga versions are coming. Based
solely on those placements we have received a significant number of distributor
(ie: dealer) backorders for the mac and ST versions and almost none for the
Amiga.
Thats all that was said and thats all that was implied. On that basis
we drew conclusions, you draw your own.
Michael
Mike, What can I say, the AMIGA isn't being touted as a "business
machine". Until it is, people will continue to see it as a "super-toy" or
a "super-geek" machine. I must admit that most of the AMIGA owners I know
would not be interested in a "portfolio management" system. I am glad you
have some sort of marketing "bottleneck" to control the implementation of
the AMIGA version…it isn't good business to work hard on a version for a
computer that doesn't "put out" for your application…as other software
developers are finding out…and who do we have to blame!!!!???? Mike
It's a real quandry, isn't it. Computers are lumps of plastic,
metal and silicon. It's not only what they can do but also how we perceive
them that makes them either a "game machine", a business computer" and so
on.
There have been a number of micros over the years that have gotten
a bum rap and been misperceived. Frankly, I don't think that it's happened
yet to the Amiga, but it's getting close.
The ST on the other hand seems to have been able to avoid the
stigma of being just a "home" computer – whatever that is-.
I suppose the advanced graphics and sound capabilities of the Amiga
coupled with the fact that it wasn't target marketed well to begin with,
all contributed to the current situation. Let's hope that it can be
rectified.
[Michael]
Mike,
It is amazing how the presentation of a product can alter the "perception"
of its value, use, and capabilities. Since the AMIGA was presented as a
"machine that could stand on its own abilities", people interpreted that as
whatever they liked the most about the AMIGA. CBM didn't help when they
seemed to present the machine as a "graphics/sound" generator, rather than
a "multi-tasking" workhorse. The lack of "presentation" in that area is
evident in the lack of "multi-tasking" programs available for the AMIGA.
CBM also missed a big opportunity when they failed to seek out those
programmers that have experience in multi-tasking environments (c/UNIX
people for example) and whip up some interest there. Most people I know
who use c, and own an AMIGA, realize that the AMIGA is the only real c/UNIX
development environment available for your own home use! I think nothing
short of a massive "niche" oriented marketing campaign will "rectify"
things, as you have said. No product can stand on its own, people have
become too used to being "manipulated" by advertising!!!!! The intelligent
people (like you and I <grin>) bought it because in spite of poor
marketing/advertising, we knew a good thing when we saw it! Unfortunately,
if CBM doesn't do something soon, we will have a fabulous machine, that has
no "quality" software, which as I said before, is like having a 150 foot
yaht, land-locked in Kansas! Mike
Mike, what surprises me about this whole discussion is the recurring
statement that CBM should market to "niches". Often, in the same message,
the writer will specify which niche is the "right" one. The result I see is
an "everything" machine that needs less targeting and a lot more exposure
in advertising. CBM has already made the mistake of ignoring the wide range
of potential users out there in order to promote the Amiga as a business
machine with their rather foolish attempt at pushing the Transformer. CBM
Canada went so far as to say that if you weren't planning on writing
business stuff, you may as well not apply for developer status. Things have
changed now, of course, and it can only be good for the Amiga to get the
widest possible variety of software out.
While I respect Mr. Reichmann's company and its products, and realize that
there is a lot of expense and risk involved with bringing out a package, I
come close to apoplexy when I hear that he is judging his market by the
response to ads in the last place the average Amiga enthusiast would look,
and businessmen won't order because it doesn't run on their dinosaur.
Regards, Larry
Larry,
By "niches" I refer to the type of marketing that Apple did with the
"Machintosh" in the electronic document/typesetting world. The AMIGA lends
itself greatly to the advertising world, workstation world, CAD/CAM world,
etc… That doesn't mean that the AMIGA should be limited to those areas,
but trade magazines might have advertising included in them to point out
the AMIGA's features relating to those areas. I agree, they need a whole
lot more advertising. Also, I am dissappointed that CBM does not try to
get some crossover business from the C64 and C128 worlds. But hey, who are
we, a couple of disgruntled owners of the best "hardware" on the market,
upset because our machine crashes with memory errors every 15 mins. or so,
that we can't find a piece of software for a specific application, and
wondering when we will be able to. Mike
Mike,
"crashes with memory errors every 15 min. or so"??
Did you ever get the feeling that we are all running with different
versions of the operating system even though they may be labelled the same?
I don't have the types of problems you seem to be having.
True, there are probably niches that only the Amiga will fit without
spending thousands of dollars more, and I agree that CBM should address
these. However, it also seems to me that it is truly an "everything
machine", and that ads targeting any given niche are for the most part
wasted in general readership magazines or on television. I would prefer to
see ads extolling the virtues of the machine in more than one area, and at
the same time. The multitasking capabilities alone need to be explained to
the general public in terms that they can't ignore. So far, anyone without
an Amiga looks at multitasking as either a "frill" or as something that the
average person can't use to advantage. The "niche" advertising should be
left to the software developers, as that is where the niches are made, not
by the general hardware. These ads should appear not only in special
interest magazines, but also in any generalized Amiga magazines.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Regards, Larry.
Yea, ABASIC no longer runs on my AMIGA (memory problem), numerous games no
longer run, "popcli" in core in 1.2 often causes problems, etc… It is
evident that CBM still hasn't worked the bugs they want to out yet because
they haven't officially released 1.2 yet. Kind of makes you wonder what
their design/software engineering tactics are…seems as though they are
doing what most software houses do…"debug" quality back into their code
"after" the fact!!! That makes for "bad" prototypes, and worse yet, "late"
distribution. Oh well, our only hope is that someone listens to us, or CBM
goes under and Atari or Apple or someone buys the AMIGA!!!! If not, there
will be over 100,000 angry ophan owners in the world! Mike
Yea, ABASIC no longer runs on my AMIGA (memory problem), numerous games no
longer run, "popcli" in core in 1.2 often causes problems, etc… It is
evident that CBM still hasn't worked the bugs they want to out yet because
they haven't officially released 1.2 yet. Kind of makes you wonder what
their design/software engineering tactics are…seems as though they are
doing what most software houses do…"debug" quality back into their code
"after" the fact!!! That makes for "bad" prototypes, and worse yet, "late"
distribution. Oh well, our only hope is that someone listens to us, or CBM
goes under and Atari or Apple or someone buys the AMIGA!!!! If not, there
will be over 100,000 angry ophan owners in the world! Mike
Mike,
"crashes with memory errors every 15 min. or so"??
Did you ever get the feeling that we are all running with different
versions of the operating system even though they may be labelled the same?
I don't have the types of problems you seem to be having.
True, there are probably niches that only the Amiga will fit without
spending thousands of dollars more, and I agree that CBM should address
these. However, it also seems to me that it is truly an "everything
machine", and that ads targeting any given niche are for the most part
wasted in general readership magazines or on television. I would prefer to
see ads extolling the virtues of the machine in more than one area, and at
the same time. The multitasking capabilities alone need to be explained to
the general public in terms that they can't ignore. So far, anyone without
an Amiga looks at multitasking as either a "frill" or as something that the
average person can't use to advantage. The "niche" advertising should be
left to the software developers, as that is where the niches are made, not
by the general hardware. These ads should appear not only in special
interest magazines, but also in any generalized Amiga magazines.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Regards, Larry.
Larry,
By "niches" I refer to the type of marketing that Apple did with the
"Machintosh" in the electronic document/typesetting world. The AMIGA lends
itself greatly to the advertising world, workstation world, CAD/CAM world,
etc… That doesn't mean that the AMIGA should be limited to those areas,
but trade magazines might have advertising included in them to point out
the AMIGA's features relating to those areas. I agree, they need a whole
lot more advertising. Also, I am dissappointed that CBM does not try to
get some crossover business from the C64 and C128 worlds. But hey, who are
we, a couple of disgruntled owners of the best "hardware" on the market,
upset because our machine crashes with memory errors every 15 mins. or so,
that we can't find a piece of software for a specific application, and
wondering when we will be able to. Mike
Mike, what surprises me about this whole discussion is the recurring
statement that CBM should market to "niches". Often, in the same message,
the writer will specify which niche is the "right" one. The result I see is
an "everything" machine that needs less targeting and a lot more exposure
in advertising. CBM has already made the mistake of ignoring the wide range
of potential users out there in order to promote the Amiga as a business
machine with their rather foolish attempt at pushing the Transformer. CBM
Canada went so far as to say that if you weren't planning on writing
business stuff, you may as well not apply for developer status. Things have
changed now, of course, and it can only be good for the Amiga to get the
widest possible variety of software out.
While I respect Mr. Reichmann's company and its products, and realize that
there is a lot of expense and risk involved with bringing out a package, I
come close to apoplexy when I hear that he is judging his market by the
response to ads in the last place the average Amiga enthusiast would look,
and businessmen won't order because it doesn't run on their dinosaur.
Regards, Larry
Mike,
It is amazing how the presentation of a product can alter the "perception"
of its value, use, and capabilities. Since the AMIGA was presented as a
"machine that could stand on its own abilities", people interpreted that as
whatever they liked the most about the AMIGA. CBM didn't help when they
seemed to present the machine as a "graphics/sound" generator, rather than
a "multi-tasking" workhorse. The lack of "presentation" in that area is
evident in the lack of "multi-tasking" programs available for the AMIGA.
CBM also missed a big opportunity when they failed to seek out those
programmers that have experience in multi-tasking environments (c/UNIX
people for example) and whip up some interest there. Most people I know
who use c, and own an AMIGA, realize that the AMIGA is the only real c/UNIX
development environment available for your own home use! I think nothing
short of a massive "niche" oriented marketing campaign will "rectify"
things, as you have said. No product can stand on its own, people have
become too used to being "manipulated" by advertising!!!!! The intelligent
people (like you and I <grin>) bought it because in spite of poor
marketing/advertising, we knew a good thing when we saw it! Unfortunately,
if CBM doesn't do something soon, we will have a fabulous machine, that has
no "quality" software, which as I said before, is like having a 150 foot
yaht, land-locked in Kansas! Mike
It's a real quandry, isn't it. Computers are lumps of plastic,
metal and silicon. It's not only what they can do but also how we perceive
them that makes them either a "game machine", a business computer" and so
on.
There have been a number of micros over the years that have gotten
a bum rap and been misperceived. Frankly, I don't think that it's happened
yet to the Amiga, but it's getting close.
The ST on the other hand seems to have been able to avoid the
stigma of being just a "home" computer – whatever that is-.
I suppose the advanced graphics and sound capabilities of the Amiga
coupled with the fact that it wasn't target marketed well to begin with,
all contributed to the current situation. Let's hope that it can be
rectified.
[Michael]
Mike, What can I say, the AMIGA isn't being touted as a "business
machine". Until it is, people will continue to see it as a "super-toy" or
a "super-geek" machine. I must admit that most of the AMIGA owners I know
would not be interested in a "portfolio management" system. I am glad you
have some sort of marketing "bottleneck" to control the implementation of
the AMIGA version…it isn't good business to work hard on a version for a
computer that doesn't "put out" for your application…as other software
developers are finding out…and who do we have to blame!!!!???? Mike