#Cops, Courts, Crooks
7 messages in this thread
Ben,
Sure, I could have obtained/been taught/learned/derived my moral
values in any number of other ways. I don't claim for a second that
Jewish religion, or any other religion, holds the patent on humane
ethical behavior. Not at all. Every religion I know of has its dark
side, which _in my mind_ seriously undermines any positive influence it
may have. However, I was brought up in a particular religious/cultural
environment; I made use, and continue to make use, of the tools at hand,
even while rejecting what I saw (and see) as the dark side of my
heritage.
It should be clear that I don't believe my moral values are intrinsic
in their source. If I did believe so, I would probably be studying
Torah, Talmud, and Kabalah in some Yeshiva (religious school) in
Jerusalem rather than pecking away at my Amy's keyboard. Ultimately, I
hold my particular set of values because I believe they are good, and
for no other reason.
Hmmm, this is a thought-provoking discussion.
Dave
David,
You are one of the few Jews that I have found to have similar beliefs to my
own. I am very Jewish, but in heritage, rather than a religious sense. I
don't understand why people can't accept their problems as their own, rather
than blaming them on a god, or their failure to follow said god's wishes.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
"In order to take control of our lives and accomplish something of lasting
value, sooner or later we need to learn to Believe. We don't need to shift our
responsibilities onto the shoulders of some deified Spiritual Superman, or sit
around and wait for Fate to come knocking at the door. We simply need to
believe in the power that's within us, and use it. When we do that, and stop
imitating others and competing against them, things begin to work for us."
— Benjamin Hoff
Rick
That's exactly the way I feel about it. If you don't believe enough in
yourself to not need an external "Force", then there are professionals that can
help you with the problem.
Rodney Somerstein 73167,2165
Right. Hoff wasn't saying that you should disbelieve in God (or Fate, or
whatever), at least in my interpretation. Instead, he was saying that you
shouldn't lead your life by relying on a supreme power to make your decisions
for you or get you out of scrapes. It's _your_ life, and you're the one who
has to live it. This doesn't bar belief in God or Tao or whatever you happen
to believe in.
Rick
Rodney,
My family just about covers the whole spectrum as far as religion is
concerned. My cousin Yehezkel is a rabbi, a very intelligent and devout
man. He lives in Jerusalem and is a founding member of Oz veShalom
(Strength and Peace), an organization committed to bringing about
peaceful Israeli/Arab coexistence. Unfortuantely, Oz veShalom is a
small group with little power. People prefer to listen to Gush Emunim
or Meir Kahane. At the opposite end of the pole is my Uncle Nathan.
Uncle Nate is a member of Kibbutz Lokhame haGetta'ot (the Ghetto
Fighters' Kibbutz) in northern Israel. He fought in the Warsaw
resistance and was one of the few who survived. He, like just about
everyone else at Lokhame, doesn't believe in god. In fact, at Lokhame
the men make a big show of driving their tractors thru the cotton and
corn fields on Yom Kippur, quite an act of defiance as I'm sure you
realize. That act says a lot to me. It says that from now on they will
rely on no god to have mercy on them and protect them. They will take
care of themselves. I cannot help but agree with them completely.
Dave