CompuServe Thread

#Flyer Info Update

35 messages in this thread
#180491From: henry tellerJan 2, 1995 8:03 AM
Videology, Inc 72-6 Newtown Rd, Suite 210 Danbury, CT 06810 (203) 270-9000 VIDEO TOASTER/FLYER SPECIFICATIONS – DECEMBER 30, 1994 Software Specifications: Switcher/Editor Simultaneous playback of two video streams with instantaneous rewind, fast-forward and pre-roll Editing and sequencing of video clips, framestores and effects Clips (as croutons on the edit screen) placed next to one another on the story board will perform a cut True A/B roll is acheived by placing a transition between the clips Clips whose sequence produce an A/B roll situation will have the B clip's overlapping frames moved to the other harddrive without user input, producing a full two video stream input to the Toaster Switcher Any sequence made up of video clips, framestores, CG pages, and Toaster transitions may be viewed immediately as no rendering is required Since most of the effects requiring realtime video compression cause the Switcher to produce a video image with pixelized images, the Feral Effect board is available for realtime, non-pixelized compression. For effects not available with the Toaster Switcher, or to replace effects that cause pixelization, the effects may be rendered from the Flyer clips, through the user of LightWave, producing clean, broadcast quality transitions, limited only by the user's imagination Special effects/transitions may be created by the inexperienced user by using Hollywood F/X, selecting one of the many packaged effects, telling the program what features you want, and telling it to render it for you. A newer version, available by February '95, will allow the user to create the effect. Insert editing (overlaying a longer clip with audio with a shorter video clip) is possible Visual framestore representations (thumbnails) New file management capabilities built into the editor Fully automatic A/B roll editing Multiple video quality modes Play forward from any point Disk to disk high speed direct copy Over 100 new effects in Version 4.0 Using stereo RCA connectors, unbalanced stereo audio input and output can be recorded simultaneously with the video Two background stereo audio tracks may be added with a separate disk installed on the third SCSI interface Independent audio level control on all tracks Independent In and out audio points may be set creating a "split edit" with overlaping audio Stereo audio can be played from two video clips simultaneously, with independent volume level and face controls. All four stereo tracks (eight channels) are mixed down to final stereo output using the Flyer's onboard DSP chip All audio is CD quality (16-bit 44.1 Khz) ToasterCG Ability to rotate, resize and shear text Unlimited CG pages stored independently Extensive ARexx controllability Improved brush preview operation Spell Checker ToasterPaint: (Amiga 4000 systems only) All-new interface Full-screen, full-color paint on the A4000 High-Performance airbrush Stencil Alpha Channel Alpha Channel painting New color editing with HSV color wheel PostScript text support including rotate, resize and shear New ARexx macro interface User definable palette Global flood fill LightWave LightWave output to Flyer Basic inverse kinematics "Unaffected by fog" option for objects "Unseen by Rays" option for objects Improved shadow mapping and soft filtering Anamorphic option for NTSC widescreen or CinemaScope Item selection by clicking in LightWave view Modeler Enhanced control of Bones Multi-level undo and redo Features Not Yet in .9 SMPTE recording with timecode stored with clip Sequencing of CG overlays, scrolls and crawls New ToasterPaint for Amiga 2000 systems ChromaFX croutons Archive utilities Cutting Room: Bulk digitizing, audio stripping, stripping of still-stores, segmenting of long video clips Hardware Specifications Flyer Technical Specifications Video Signal Tolerances Differential Phase: <2(0N: Differential Gain: <3% Chroma Bandwidth: Maximum available (NTSC standard) Compression Data Rate Data Rate Luminace S/N Storage Mode Peak Variance Bandwidth Ratio Requirements * Uncompressed 8.0MB/sec to 8MB/sec 6MHz 54dB <6Min/GB Top Quality <5.0MB/sec 1.4-5MB/s >6.00 MHz @ -3dB 56 dB 6-8Min/GB High Quality <3.7MB/sec 1.4-3.7MB/s >4.20 MHz @ -3dB >50dB 8-10Min/GB Low Quality <3.7MB/Sec 0.7-3.7MB/s >2.75 MHz @ -3dB >50dB 10-12Min/GB Note: Add 1.76K/sec (0.176MB/sec) for stereo audio recorded with video. * – Uncompressed hardware dependent Uncompressed is true uncompressed D2 video. Since it requires an 8.0MB/Sec Data Rate, this resolution will not be available until there are drives that achieve that speed. Top Quality is true D2 quality which is 60 fields per second, full overscan (752 pixels wide by 480 lines high) Internally the Flyer works with D2 data so there is no D2/Composite transcoding The Flyer uses Newtek's Video Toaster Adaptive Statiscal Coding (VTASC). VTASC relies on reducing the quality of the video signal (i.e. dropping from D2 to Beta SP) instead of picture quality, as do JPEG, MPEG and WaveLet. The resulting degradation looks more like noise associated with video, since there is no visible pixelization. Using the faster, 9GB drives, lossless D2 quality can be acheived, but not uncompressed D2. The video is 8 bit sample at 14.3 MHz (D2 standard) using state of the art A/D, D/Aconverters Flyer Hard Drives IBM 3.5"x1.6" 2GB 70G8493 Rev Seagate 3.5"x1.6" 4GB ST1515ON Rev Seagate 5.25"x3.2" 9GB ST41080ON Rev During firmware developement for the above drives, Newtek identified specific firmware that produced Flyer compatible drives. Since the model/firmware combinations are not being made currently, all Newtek certified drives are being manufactured exclusively for Newtek, in small quantities, and shipped to Newtek distributors. The Flyer provided formatter will format any drive for video that is mounted on either of the two video SCSI video controllers. However, that is no certification that the drive will work. Additionally, newer versions of some firmware doe not work, so only specific Newtek production drives should be used. Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#180498From: Joe LoweryJan 2, 1995 10:18 AM
Henry – A couple of questions on your Flyer specs posting: What's a "Feral Effect board" – who makes it, how much, availability, etc. How extensive is the ARexx implementation for Flyer control? What's the pricing and availability of the Flyer itself, and the 9GB Seagate drives? Do you have any idea what the compression ratio for audio would be (on the 3rd SCSI interface separate disk)? Thanks – Happy Flyin' New Year – Joe
#180680From: henry tellerJan 4, 1995 7:48 AM
Hi Joe – The Feral Effect board is a combination TBC and effects board that can do very clean compression of video. Used in conjunction with the Video Toaster, most of the Toaster's over-the-shoulder effects can be replaced with Feral compression, providing clean, unpixelized video. It is designed to interface with the Toaster using ARexx control through a GUI that let's you design the output graphically, and it creates the script. It doesn't solve the compression problems of other compressing Toaster DVE's. The SRP is $1495.00, and since it includes a good TBC, that seems to be a reasonable price. Prior to the Video Toaster User Expo in LA, Newtek held a developers conference and opened up the Toaster/Flyer technology. Just yesterday (1/3/95) I talked with a developer who was creating a developers interface for the ARexx control of the Flyer. It seems he had enough commands to control most of the Flyer actions and permit developers to create wonderful addons to the Flyer system, such as comprehensive clip manipulation. I'm sure the goal is to have complete ARexx control of the Flyer, but Newtek has to finish the Flyer software first. The Flyer, for those who did not prebook it back in June '94, has an SRP of $4,995. If you have a prebooked Flyer, you should be getting it by the end of January (or early February). New orders won't be shipping until all prebooks are delivered and the Flyer software is finished. Since some distributors booked Flyers back in June, there may be some early ones available, but generally we don't expect to be filling new orders until March. The 9GB Seagate drives have a recommended selling price of around $5,500. Since this is higher than the current market for similar 9GB drives, that price could change daily. Since all Flyer drives are being manufactured to Newtek specs for one OEM, that OEM has all the drives and is paying a premium, since the specs require a special run by the manufacturer. Until the manufacturer starts manufacturing those drives for everyone (when the demand is greater?), there will be a limited supply. If you work with a Toaster dealer, I would recommend getting them from him, since you may also need his support if you have any trouble. The audio will be recorded in 16-bit 44.1kHz standard CD quality. As with any graphic or audio file, compression WILL reduce quality. There is no plans to compress the audio. Hope this helps – but with everything I've learned about developing products, these notes could change tomorrow. Enjoy your Flyer – it is the best NLE in the industry. Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#180733From: Joe LoweryJan 4, 1995 6:34 PM
Thanks for the extensive reply Henry. I'll be in touch. – Joe
#180530From: Dave CinegeJan 2, 1995 7:41 PM
There aren't any drives that can push 8mb/sec……but 3 or 4 drive arrays can do it with ease. The SCSI-II bus can handle 10mb/sec. Is this Flyer a board for the Amiga, a stand alone system, or something that interfaces with the Video Toaster? Dave Elite MicroComputers – Flying high on AutoPilot
#180681From: henry tellerJan 4, 1995 7:48 AM
Hi Dave – The Flyer is designed to give 20MB/Sec with the correct pair of drives, and that will support uncompressed D2 video. Since the Flyer is one of the few NLE systems providing true, realtime A/B roll with realtime transitions and DVE, its viability was dependent on the sustained speed of the available drives. All the Flyer hardware supports that speed. The Flyer is a board designed to go in a Newtek Video Toaster computer. If it could be hooked up to control other similar products, it could be installed in a different computer, since the Flyer/Computer interface is on the level of a serial communications port. Since there is no other interface presently available, it must be installed with a Video Toaster in an Amiga (A2000, A3000, A3000T, A2500, A4000). The Flyer is practically a complete computer system on a board as it contains three SCSI-II controllers, stereo audio digitize and playback A/D – D/A conversion, and video digitize and playback A/D – D/A conversion as well as harddisk file management for the Flyer drives. Hope this helps – Happy Flyin' Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#180719From: Dave CinegeJan 4, 1995 3:42 PM
NewTek does it again….. How much does this board run….and how much "normal" video hardware does it replace in dollar value? (If there is even anything out there to compete with it) Dave Elite MicroComputers – Flying high on AutoPilot
#180802From: henry tellerJan 5, 1995 6:58 AM
Hi Dave – With the complete Toaster/Flyer system and sufficient hard drive space to hold all your raw footage for your largest drive (6-10 minutes per GB) the minimal studio would need a camcorder to capture raw footage (and produce stillstores for presentation), a play/record VCR (with no need for frame accurate editing control) and a TBC for Flyer digitize input. This system could do A/B roll and therefore would replace the two editing player decks and editing system otherwise required. And, of course, the Toaster part of the package provides character generation with 350 scalable PostScript fonts (40 – 400 lines), chroma effects, luminance keying, 24-bit paint program, and full 3D modeling and animation. Most systems can't offer true D2 quality, and none of them come close at that price point with all of those features. Since the initial captured video is loaded directly into the Flyer, your final output tape is bearly first generation, and the Flyer can easily make many masters by just pushing 'PLAY' each time. Since the output is in realtime, it takes 30 minutes to create a master of a 30 minute tape, but it only takes the user a second to push 'PLAY'. If you had the output hooked to a DA, you could make many in the second. The savings in dollars depends on what format you're using. Certainly you would save more in Beta SP then Hi8. Or cut your investment by selling your uneccesary gear. Definitely revolutionary!! Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#180835From: Kurt Duncan @ WCNOCJan 5, 1995 1:35 PM
Do I understand correctly, that you are asserting the necessity of a TBC to dump your camcorder raw footage into the flyer/hard drive? Why?
#181336From: henry tellerJan 9, 1995 9:03 PM
Newtek does require a TBC for video input. IF the TBC has a proc amp, then it is a great way to be sure the footage is color corrected. Due to the need to be precisely 30fps, the TBC is essential. Of course it will take live camera input without a TBC. Remember, the Flyer captures 60 fields per second and must digitize each one for storage on the disk. Changes in input speed would require adjustments by the Flyer, causing drop frames, at the least. Newtek has the Y/C connector for a TBC already on the Flyer board. With a future hardware update they plan to provide the rest of the circuitry and make the board a total solution. By the way, what's WCNOC? Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#181352From: john bennettJan 9, 1995 11:15 PM
Henry, Newteks been talking about doing a TBC since Toaster 1.0! I certainly wouldn't want to wait for a Flyer H/W update. Hopefully we'll be hearing some hands-on enduser reports soon. ….John
#181357From: henry tellerJan 9, 1995 11:59 PM
We got our unit Saturday and should have a good install program by tomorrow with AirBorne. I'll post progress. Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#181409From: Kurt Duncan @ WCNOCJan 10, 1995 10:07 AM
"By the way, what's WCNOC?" Wolf Creek Nuclear Operating Corporation
#181501From: henry tellerJan 10, 1995 11:30 PM
Okay – – – sounds great. What goes on there? Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#181697From: Kurt Duncan @ WCNOCJan 12, 1995 11:19 AM
Producing 1100+ MW of electrical power.
#181417From: Arnie CachelinJan 10, 1995 10:27 AM
"precisely 30fps" if we're being precise, we might as well be accurate and say 29.97fps or really, 59.94 fields/sec… but what's a few hundredths of a frame between friends!
#181439From: Bruce Robertson [PreVue]Jan 10, 1995 3:14 PM
OK, if we're REALLY being precise, NTSC video is 29.97002998 fps or 59.94005996 fields/sec. If anyone's interested in the derivation, I'll post it. (An even the above numbers are rounded off; sorry.)
#181467From: Dale LarsonJan 10, 1995 6:19 PM
Looks like someone used a Pentium in creating the standard.
#181475From: Eduard JosephJan 10, 1995 8:04 PM
Dale, No mercy for Pentium? I like it. Eduard Joseph Volt Information Sciences
#181502From: henry tellerJan 10, 1995 11:30 PM
You're absolutely right! Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#181541From: Arnie CachelinJan 11, 1995 10:38 AM
Well, not absolutely, as Bruce has pointed out… duoooh!
#181000From: Hank DuckmanJan 6, 1995 7:36 PM
PMFJI, Henry, but will such a system produce D2 equivalent output? What format Camcorder and VCR are needed for D2 output? Hank
#181355From: henry tellerJan 9, 1995 11:48 PM
D2. You can't get higher resolution out than you put in. And you can't record higher resolution than that which the record deck is capable. The system will not generate missing lines of resolution. If you record D2 with a Hi8 deck, all you get is Hi8. Some day we may have interpolative image processing, and we'll be able to fill in the blanks. Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#181526From: Hank DuckmanJan 11, 1995 5:39 AM
Thanks for the info. I'm really a novice, amateur video buff and would like to learn more, at least before going into debt for more sophisticated equipment. I am at ground zero now with VHS editing set-up (Panasonic twin decks and controller, awaiting Opal VideoProcessor). Incidentally, I was born and raised in Stamford, and spent some of the better hours of the summers of my youth in Candlewood Lake. Hank
#181638From: henry tellerJan 11, 1995 11:17 PM
We be sure to say hi if you get back this way. Candlewood has become a very popular, crowded summer area now. Where are you now? What is the basic equipment (models, etc) setup? Might be a good entry level system for future videographers. Let me know how it works out – Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#181827From: Hank DuckmanJan 13, 1995 3:09 PM
I'm in northwestern New Jersey…the fresh air, rural, treed and hilled section of the state where there are deer on your lawn, bear in the woods, and no industrial odors. I have been using my current system for about 5 years. It includes twin Panasonic industrial editing decks and a controller, but only VHS. I did some home video editing until my SuperGen stopped working about one and a half years ago, and since then have been on hold awaiting the appearance of the Opal Video Processor. While I'm not very happy with the VHS format resolution, I don't want to commit to spending big bucks for an upgrade (S-VHS or Hi 8) until I see where the Amiga is going. In the meantime, I am trying to learn as much as I can about the "field". Hank
#182033From: henry tellerJan 15, 1995 4:10 PM
Glad you're hanging in there. We should know about the Amiga "real soon now". I just hope it is resolved before Chicago/Windows'95 comes out. Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#181726From: Paul GerhardtJan 12, 1995 5:18 PM
Hank Duckman, The V-LAB motion board may be a more reasonable answer to for the video/hobbiest educator. While it is not in the same league as the Flyer, at $1800 for the VLAB-M and sound board, and no need for special hard drives, it is certainly much more affordable. In fact I'll let you know since I just ordered one! 🙂 BTW I live on Lake Candlewood in Danbury. Beautiful lake sunsets every night. I truely love it! …Warp Engine Engaged… -Paul-
#181828From: Hank DuckmanJan 13, 1995 3:09 PM
Paul; I'd appreciate your comments on the VLab Motion Board when you get it going. I have the fondest memories of Candlewood. Is the Danbury Fair still in existence? Hank
#181835From: Paul GerhardtJan 13, 1995 5:53 PM
Hank, >Is the Danbury Fair still in existence? Nope. The entire fairground has been developed into a gigantic mall. Not a very good trade off IMHO.
#181874From: Wayne ColeJan 14, 1995 3:03 AM
Henry, There is one "gotcha" here: To record D2 directly there would need to be a 9 pin output on the Flyer to get the digital composite to the recorder where it is recorded to tape. So to be perfectly accurate, it is D2 quality up to the point at which it is converted to analog and poured out the composite spigot on the back of the board. So, even if you had a D2 deck, the recorded signal would be degraded compared to the signal as manipulated internal to the Toaster/Flyer due to the losses of the D/A then A/D process to get the Toaster D2 to composite, and the Program out composite back to D2 at the deck. So the D2 quality output "spec" is a little misleadging – it is Toaster Program out quality which is s a high bandwidth composite signal which could support the resolutions available in D2 – at least that is how I interpret the "D2 Quality" phase. wmc – via Autopilot!
#181881From: Trent K. JohnsonJan 14, 1995 6:32 AM
Looks like "Flyer Mark II" needs component outputs! (At least) :-> Trent/ReAnimators
#183580From: shaneJan 29, 1995 6:18 PM
Or Component serial digital like the rest of the Broadcast world. I think the desire to put the signal through the toaster has compromised the Flyer.
#182034From: henry tellerJan 15, 1995 4:10 PM
Sounds like you've got that right. I'm learning more from my contacts every day about video, and hope some day to feel I know at least 10%. Then it will all change to digital everything. How does digital signal processing differ from analog? Do cable lengths, terminators, etc. play a part? If it's true digital like in a computer, than they shouldn't. Or not? There's a whole new world coming. Hank Videology, Inc – Where you get all the P.O.M.P. under all Circumstances
#183579From: shaneJan 29, 1995 6:18 PM
Actually D2 machines have a composite in and out as well as composite serial digital. Thats why they so quickly replaced 1" in post houses. That and the preread ability eliminating the need for B rolls for effects.