#TOASTER PRICE
29 messages in this thread
If it's of any interest to anyone, I spoke with Todd Cavanaugh at New
Tek (Minnesota) this afternoon, and he informed men that the
standalone Toaster workstation was STILL priced at $3995, but did not
include the 2.0 upgrade. The MAC Toaster workstation is not yet
shipping, but they expect to be doing so by the end of December, and
he assured me that at that time it Too, will also be $3995. If you
were to buy the workstation today ($3995), however, there will be a
charge of about $500 to upgrade it to Mac-controllable software. He
indicated that 2.0 would be INCLUDED in that upgrade, when available.
This is extremely interesting to me, as I am assembling an edit suite
using the Mac-controlled Toaster Workstation, to be used with
Panasonic 7750 edit decks next month, and am now torn as whether to
wait for the Mac unit, or buy now and pay the software upgrade.
Anyone else in the same boat?? I'd be curious to know. Bob
Since you're assembling such a system, perhaps you could explain to me what
the advantage of having the Mac control a Toaster system is? It seems to me
that you're just tying up the Mac system unnecessarily by using it to
control the Toaster. I assume there is some software included for porting
over Mac graphic format files, but you could do that with ADPro. What other
advantages are there?
I'm not criticising the system, just trying to understand it.
I think the only "good" reason is that's the only way that Mac owners
will *buy* a "Toaster system". They would never in a million years
buy an Amiga, but something to attach to a Mac…sure! I don't know
what their problem is….maybe it's because they can't figure out how
to use more than one mouse button? 😉
Dear Steve:
Disregarding your apparant hostility toward Mac owners, the reason I am
interested in the workstation for the Mac is that I ALREADY HAVE a
substantial investment in a Mac IIci system. 8 megs of RAM, plus a 25 Mhz
clock speed. And software for the Mac to control a pro edit deck (Pana
7750/7760) has much to be said for it.
In addition, I want to import my Mac anims into the productions. The
New Tek Mac workstation seems to me to be an extremely attractive addition
for my setup.
Maybe your miffed that someone would consider an Amiga a 'periphial',
hmmm? 😉
Bob
Bob;
No, I don't think that Steve is miffed that someone would consider an Amiga
to be a periphial. The question was a valid one. It was a bit hard to
understand why one would add a multitasking machine to a single tasking
machine as a periphial. The other way around would make logical sense.
However, you also provided a valid answer. If the Mac already has the
additional software/hardware interface to control existing additional video
equipment then why repurchase all of that just to add the toaster?
There are some video 'heavyweights' here in the AmigaForums but appearently
they are not using Macs or at least have not mentioned their use.
-bill/ARS KB7LX
Bill, the reason you don't yet see the Mac people here, is that NewTek is
not shipping the Mac-Compatible workstation yet. . .
AND much Mac software is just becoming available.
Bob
Bob;
Makes sense but when you say that the "Mac software is just becomming
available", you are referring to the Toaster/Mac interface software and not
the video equipment control software, yes?
-bill/ARS KB7LX
The question of how much someone has invested in their system doesn't even
come into play at all. To do the work you have to do with the Toaster, you
can just turn the Mac off and run all the software on the Amiga! In this
case, the Mac just turns into an overpriced user interface. It's just
there to hide the fact that the Amiga is doing all the work.
The "hostility" you see showing through is aimed at the Mac owners that
wouldn't touch an Amiga with a Toaster in it, but would grab a "black box"
with a Toaster in it hooked up to use the Mac as an interface.
Steve
Well, Steve,
At least you can console yourself that an Amiga "made" company is getting
the Apple polishers' money. Kinda think of it as diguised revenge :^}
wmc
Steve;
It sorta makes sense to me… if there is already video equipment control
software running on the Mac, then just add the Amiga as yet another item to
control. Probably beats trying to write all of the various special control
programs from scratch to run on the Amy.
-bill/ARS KB7LX
As a multiplatform user – Mac, Amiga, 386 pc – the extreme level of "my
machine is bigger than your machine" that I keep running into on all the
specialist boards seems bizzarre.
One reason I can see for people wanting the Mac Toaster software (I already
have the Toaster) is so they won't have to invest the time required to
learn all the arcane Amiga OS stuff (having already learned all the arcane
Mac OS stuff). Another reason, if it is supported by the Amiga Toaster, is
support of Mac to video transfer. The price paid for the Macs high
resolution, millions of color capability is very costly video encoding. An
Amiga/Toaster is less costly than many of the high quality Mac encoders.
Be nice if some of the "flaming" on this issue was replaced by some
rational discussion.
Bill
This has been a rational discussion. 🙂 I can see the point about not
wanting to learn a new OS, but my point stands: There are Mac owners out
there that wouldn't touch an Amiga if it has the label "Amiga" on it. That
point has been proven time and time again at trade shows.
Steve
As there are Amiga owners who believe that irrespective of the application,
the Amiga is superior to all other platforms – as for Newtek's relabeling
it strikes me as smart. Selling the owner of a Mac or PC pn the concept
that what he needs is a different platform is a lot more difficult than
selling a "blackbox" that effectively accomplishes the required task. In
the Mac market where price sensitivity is low, the toaster should be
effective. With 486's selling for less than $2,000 I'm less sanguine about
the possibilities in that market.
Bill
This is true….there will always be people that think their computer is
the best for everything. When people ask me for advice about what computer
to buy, they're sometimes shocked that I ask what they need to do with it,
rather than just flat out say "Amiga".
Oh, well. I guess people will always be like this. 🙁
Steve
Steve,
There are some differences between using a what I will call a
"Native Mode" Video Toaster Workstation and either a PC Video Toaster
WorkStation or Macintosh Video Toaster Workstation. As shown at Comdex,
their is editing control products that are available that will control the
Video Toaster that have been shipping and have a fairly large installed
base.
Personally, I can't wait to see the Macintosh running the PC Video
Toaster Workstation …hehehe
Video Toaster Workstation platforms will happen as the need arises.
It could be possible that we do a Silicon Graphics Video Toaster
Workstation as much as a Momenta Video Toaster Workstation… if the need
arises.
RAD Moose
"'o.o'"
Yeah – I run into the same thing – One of the reasons people resist the
"what do you want to do question" is sometimes they really don't have a use
in mind – just the hots for a computer
Bill
Just give me one of each! Hehehehe
I'm using PC's, Mac's, Atari's (for MIDI), and soon to be an Amiga! I guess
that makes me a Multi-platform Multimedia dude? But I must admit, trying to
learn all the OS's on these things can keep one rather busy!
GLENN ;P
If you don't mind another Mac'y jumping in – is it your belief that the Mac
Toaster software will support Mac PICS (or PICT) conversion. I've currently
got a Mac (8M, II w/40MHz 030) and an Amiga/Toaster (7M, 28MHz 030). I am
moving Mac stills to the Amiga using a DoubleTalk board on the Amiga to
transfer files over LocalTalk and then InterLink to convert the images. It
works but it's slow even with two accelerated machines. It would be nice to
have a more direct process. Bill Dwyer
Bill,
I do not remember the exact file formats that will be supported in
the converstion process on the Macintosh Video Toaster Workstation, but I
think PICT is one of them.
RAD Moose
"'o.o'"
Thanks – will those of us who already have a toaster get a shot at the Mac
software?
Bill
Bill,
The specifics on Mac and PC platforms is not yet available, so I
could not definately say one way or the other if existing owners will be
able to get the workstation access system and/or what the cost would be.
[Yes, I do beleive that it will be available, but I cannot say anything
since it is not final yet]
RAD Moose
"'o.o'"
Steve, just thought I'd jump in and mention something. You won't be able to
import your mac anims directly unless you have a video board for your mac.
I'm not a box bigot, I have several of each family (mac,Amiga,PC). As I
understand it, certain mac graphic formats such as Pict & GIF will be
translated from mac format to 24bit toasterpaint files.
Frank
Steve!
I have figured out how to get an Amiga 3000 to work with a toaster without
blowing your warranty! Its simple! Buy an Amiga 3000, a serial cable and
a "TOASTER Workstation" and hook'em up!
Gosh, it makes just about the same amount of sense. 🙂
-mark=
– via the Whapster!
ha! 🙂 🙂
And it even has an interface you already know how to use. 😉 😉
Steve
"… the only "good" reason is that's the only way that Mac owners will
*buy* a "Toaster system. They would never in a million years buy an Amiga,
but something to attach to a Mac … sure! I don't know what their problem
is … maybe it's because they can't figure out how to use more than one
mouse button?"
…….JEEZ. Isn't this platform bashing rather juvenile? I've got three
Macs and still bought an AMIGA because of the Toaster. I'm willing to admit
the video superiority of the AMIGA. But I'll still take PHOTOSHOP 2.0 on
the Mac for high resolution still-frame manipulation.
Mark, just out of curiosity, have you heard of or seen 'ImageMaster' for
the Amiga? It is 24bit image manipulation software, and 24bit paint
software. Currently available for three amiga output devices… 1) the
Black Belt HAM-E output device (psuedo 24bit display in low res), 2) the
Firecracker24 pure 24bit output board by Impulse (upto 1024×482), and 3)
the regular stock amiga graphics modes (still manipulates images in 24bits,
just displayed in regular modes).
I ask because it has been compared very favorably to PhotoShop and others
by folks who USE both. Frankly, several users have said that it blows them
away.
Now I am NOT trying to bash anything here…. since I have not used
PhotoShop I cannot compare, but I'd be interested in your opinion, if you
have? You sound like a reasonable person who wants to use the best tool
for the job….
BTW, 'ImageMaster' is published by Black Belt Systems. They have a library
area here in AmigaVendor, which includes text descriptions of the program,
etc…. just for your info.
–jp–seattle–
Mark, Hello I am also a multi-platform owner. I would be most curious to
hear about the Mac<>Videotoaster combination when you get it. What (if any)
Video editing software are you using on the Mac? Regards,ds
That last statement (about the mouse button) was a good natured poke at Mac
users, which I threw in because a Mac guy laughed at the Amiga for having
more than one mouse button….so I thought I throw that in.
The other statement is completely true. There are Mac people out there
that would just rather not know there is an Amiga controlling the Toaster.
Fortunately, (and you're an example of this), there are people out there
that will use whatever equipment they need regardless of the maker. They
have work to get done.
Steve
Bob,
Well, it is hard to figure out the exact pricing from your message,
but I will post something on the Macintosh Video Toaster Workstation and
the PC Video Toaster Workstation early in the week.
RAD Moose
"'o.o'"