#COMMDORE SELL RUMOURS
16 messages in this thread
Hi Wayne,
I agree with most of your points, I was merely airing the rumours
(that's all they are) in this Forum.
BTW, the fact that Commodore have just released new hardware is
*no* guarantee that they are in a good position. On the contrary, it is at
this time that they are their most vulnerable (ie: lotsa dosh spent of R&D,
no return for that R&D as yet, etc). Who knows, maybe the 6 month rumour is
based on a whisper that Commodore need to make some cash on the 4000 et al
in 6 months otherwise…[that's just me speculating folks, nothing more].
Paul
Paul:
I can see your point and the possibility; however, I really don't think
Commodore is in any danger. I think the new prodcts will help revitalize
the Amiga market and stimulate developers into doing some really
incredible applications. It may not happen in six months, but I think it
will happen.
If Commodore wants a fast return on A4000 R&D, I hope that they attempt to
get it through a major marketing campaign like we've never seen before. I
know this doesn't sound like a normal Commodore plan, but I think they
could pull it off. It sounds like the A4000 is the first in a series of
next generation Amigas that can more than hold their own against the
mainstream PC's. I hope Commodore takes advantage of their new situation
and not only markets the Amiga, but attempts to recruit new developers and
dealers.
Wayne Steele
Saving $ with AutoPilot
Hi Wayne,
I'd like to think your hopes are well founded but I have little
faith in Commodore's organisational abilities. The only time I have ever
seen Commodore `fight' for the market place was when they squashed the ST
under-foot by working closely with software houses and developers in the UK
to dominate the market here. I strongly believe that this is the only area
in which Commodore feel `comfortable'. The business and educational areas
expose Commodore's failings, hesitant attitude, lack of planning, lack of
faith in their staff, etc, etc. While Commodore UK, for example, are
comfortable working with games companies they fail to make any decent
contacts with the established business community. It can be done, too, look
at Apple.
I can only speak for the UK, here, but the latter faults explain
the downfall of Commodore's exploits trying to gain a foothold in schools
and colleges, their dire PC ventures and the lack of wheeler-dealing
manoeuvrings/marketing/etc in the business world sufficient to make the
Amiga a respectable `business' machine (enough to attract the PC big guns,
anyhow).
I have heard, a thousand times, observers from the serious business
community notice the Amiga but fail to take their interest any further
because of Commodore's failure to grab the business community by the scruff
of the neck. Just today, I chatted to the editor of a high-end DTP
magazine. He `noticed' the Amiga a year or two ago. Managed to grab a 3000
with the intention of introducing the machine into the mag but became bored
with the lack of activity and the lack of any fulfilment of the Amiga's
initial promise. He sent the 3000 back to Commodore with no regrets.
What I am trying to say is that the intro of the A4000 is good for
hardware freaks but it does absolutely nothing for the Amiga's standing. As
far as Commodore marketing the machine correctly and denting the PC? Well,
we all expected that with the 3000. I'll believe it when I see it.
Paul
Paul:
I think my hopes are well founded. Even if they aren't, a little optimism
never hurt anything. 🙂
I, too, will believe it when I see it. Commodore has yet to initiate a
solid marketing plan for the Amiga. I wish we could discover the reasons
behind this. They have the hardware. They have the OS. Why can't they
sell it? Even if they can't crush the PeeCee or Mac market share, they
have to go after it as if they can! Anyway, I hope the recent flood of
optimism from the Pasadena WoCA is more than just wishful fantasy. I
guess only time will tell.
Regardless of what Commodore does or doesn't do, I still think the rumors
you've heard in the UK have little to no credibility. Commodore is often
targeted with rumors of exaggerated specs right before new hardware is
introduced, and rumors of "the end is near" right after. This is a trend
we've seen before.
Wayne Steele
Saving $ with AutoPilot
I am effraid you are a bit optimistic for the Amiga.
Amiga users are leaving in droves, adopting instead cheap windows clones,
or switching to Macintosh. The only niche that will survive on the Amiga
is games and Video. As a Video machine, very often, it will be controlled
by a Mac or PC as a fancy video box called a Toaster.
The software market on the Amiga is brain dead. The person who needs a
word processor will buy WordPervect or Word. And he won't bother buying an
Amiga when he can have a PC running windows for about the same price. The
same is true about Desktop Publishing, Graphics, Painting, and all the
other applications. Then, there won't be enough buyers to support the
Amiga market and Commodore will start to die, just like Atari, and then
like the Timex Sinclair.
The Amiga is on Artificial life support, if you still can, get yourself a
PC or a Macintosh, just like I did. Life is good here, and I would not
return to a buggy, slow, and dying Amiga.
Jean-Eric Henault
Montreal
to admit it to myself," attitude.
Jean,
If the Amiga is buggy, slow and dying…then how come a few
messages back you are putting together a collection of clip art for
it….and if it's such a backward machine…how come you say the clip art
for the Amiga is better than the Mac or PC clip art?
You're either very confused…or purposefully trying to be
antagonistic.
Don
I have now stopped production on the Amiga due to the lack of Corporate
Support. Companies such as Gold Disk are slowly leaving the Amiga and have
no interest in supporting its products. The market for my clip-arts is so
small on the Amiga that it leaves me no hope of covering the costs it takes
to produce them.
Yes those clip-arts are of better quality that most of what is available on
Mac and PC because, I spent a lot of time on them. Most clip-arts on the
PC and MAC is usually crap anyway. Not very hard to beat…
I miss my Amiga. The hardware is fantastic, multitasking is still no
match. The animation is still the best. But hardware alone doesn't make a
computer. You need high-quality software. There is good software on the
Amiga. If you want to make a video, the Amiga still has by far, the best
software. But if you need a word-processor or a spreadsheet, the Amiga is
usually buggy, slow, etc…
The Video Niche is still very small. Beside, NewTek is doing whatever
possible to hide the Amiga underneath fearing it might hurt the credibility
of the product. This problem is very accute.
And the Video market alone will not be enough to support Commodore for very
long. The game market is slowly being caught by the huge PC and WINDOWS
market.
Also, the price Commodore has is good for the consumer, but bad for the
company. The R & D at commodore greatlly suffers right now. How long
since we have seen a big new product at Commodore ?
When Commodore gets serious about making computers, give me a call. Don't
get me wrong I still like the Amiga very much. It is just not practical
anymore.
Amigally yours,
Jean-Eric Henault
Montreal
Jean-Eric:
You may be right about Gold Disk. When I called and told them that I was
a software dealer that wanted to set up an Amiga for DTP in my store, they
turned me over to a sales rep that tried to sell me a bunch of worthless
PeeCee software. It took weeks to even get them to send me an Amiga
catalog and to get the PeeCee rep off my back (I did this by expressing my
personal opinion about MS-DOS and Windows <GRIN>). However, a similar
call to Soft-Logik yielded an immediate dealer application and an offer
for a one-time, below wholesale store copy of PageStream. Needless to
say, PageStream is running in my store and is the DTP of choice IMHO (I
really like it very much).
I'm sorry that you've left the Amiga. I think you'll be missing a very
exciting future. I'll admit that there are some software holes to be
filled, but I think that will change in time. Keep in touch! 🙂
For now, I think it would be best if you didn't try to tell us how dead
our computer is. I think that statement is premature, and it only serves
to make us "rabid" Amigoids mad (as I was in my previous message to you).
Wayne Steele
Saving $ with AutoPilot
Jean-Eric:
I don't think you're gonna find much simpathy leaving messages that
proclaim the Amiga is dead when you say that you're no longer an Amiga
user! If you truly feel that Amiga is history, and the PC or Mac is where
it's at, there are several forums where you'd be right at home, but the
Amiga forums aren't them. With the new machines Commodore is currently
coming out with the Amiga is once again going to be technically superiour
to the PC clones it's usually compared to. Of course this doesn't mean
that Commodore is going to market them any better, but it'd be nice if
they did. BTW, I also use a 486DX pc running OS/2, as well as AMax to turn
my Amiga into a Mac, so I'm familiar with other machines/operating systems
other than just the Amiga, although I do most of my work on the Amiga.
// -Mike Schiller
\X/ AMIGA! On AutoPilot in sunny Fort Lauderdale
My point was that even with new products such as the formidable A4000, what
the Amiga needs the most is not hardware alone. You need software to run
it.
Over the last 6 months, I have been working with Adobe Illustrator and Page
Maker on the Mac. It never crashed. Even when the memory is low.
Professional Draw is what I need to work on the Amiga. It is the only
serious program of the type. I recently saw the new version. Professional
Draw V3.0. Even the cursor is mis-alligned. You click somewhere, and it
select elsewhere.
What I need now is a good and Reliable DTP system. And the Macintosh is
providing it.
Later, I would like to do Video and 3D graphics. Then, I will choose the
Amiga. Of course if Commodore still exists… Commodore is playing
roulette russe with its own life. The costs for developping new machines
is very high. I don't think Commodore will sell enough A4000 to recover
its R & D costs. And again, there is still the lack of software plaguing
the machine.
You know why WordPerfect stopped production on the Amiga ? Do you know
because Lotus and Adobe never considered the Amiga ? Because it takes a lot
of money to developp high-quality software, and the high price reflects it.
And most Amiga users can't afford those high-prices. Most of them can not
even afford a laser printer !
I wish some miracle could save the Amiga. I have been an Amiga supporter
for the past 7 years. Before that I was a Vic-20 users. So it has been
almost 10 years with Commodore. But time change, and my needs have
evolved. If things improve on the Amiga, I might come back! I wish! I
miss Populous !!!
Sincerelly yours,
Jean-Eric Henault
Montreal
Jean-Eric:
I bet you're sick of my replys by now! 🙂
WordPerfect couldn't make it on the Amiga because they tried to insult our
intelligence by giving us an outdated kludge. WP Amiga was an obvious
port from the MS-DOS version. In fact, they ported v4.1 when v5.0 was
already out. If they wanted to do a port, they should have ported the
current Mac version at the time. Better still, they should have started
from scratch and made a 100% Amigatized version of the product. I think
it would have sold _very_ well.
You say that most Amiga users can't afford the high-price of quality
software like you have on the Mac and PeeCee. If so, what makes you think
that we can afford to buy another computer and the software to go with it?
Are we gonna get a "sympathy" discount from Lotus and Adobe because we
once owned an Amiga?
As I've said before, you go right on ahead and enjoy your Mac and PC.
I'll keep my Amiga. And I won't regret it.
Wayne Steele
Saving $ with AutoPilot
No, I do enjoy the conversation.
As I said to other folks on this forum. I wanted some reaction, and so
far, yours have been the most colorfull.
What you said about WordPerfect for the Amiga is partly true. The version
the Amiga has was ported from the old 4.2 PC version. But if you have a
chance, take a spin on WordPerfect for Windows to really understand my
point. Or just go see a demo of the new Word for Windows at your local Dos
dealer.
Commodore itself faces a threat. And I believe it has to be acted upon. I
don't want the Amiga to become an orphan computer such as the Timex
Sinclair or so many others.
I suggest you read the other messages I left around here. I don't want you
to switch your Amiga if you don't want to. If it satisfies your need,
good. But many others need to be compatible with their offices for
example. They need a powerfull DTP software like Quark XPress. They need
a reliable program like Lotus 1-2-3 and have support for it in 2 or 3
years. The Amiga does not offer that security.
I am still a big Amiga fan. When I see people try to set up a video system
with a Macintosh, I talk to them about the Amiga. But I fear for its own
survival. Even if the new A4000 is more powerfull than the CRAYs and
CYBERs, it will not be enough to survive. You need software, quality
support and some compatibility with the rest of the world. If this ever
happens, you will see the number of users jump higher than in your wildest
dreams.
Sincerelly yours,
Jean-Eric Henault
Montreal
By the way, the word sympathy takes a "Y" not a "I".
Not bad for a foreign language hein ? (just kidding)
Jean-Eric Henault
Montreal
Jean-Eric:
WRONG! You cannot convince me that I should get a PC or Macintosh while I
still can. I can, but I won't! I've worked with the PC, Mac, and Amiga
on a daily basis for over four years now. I wouldn't trade the Amiga on
my desk for anything but a nicer Amiga, period.
("Amiga users are leaving in droves…") Amiga users are leaving in
droves? Why aren't Amiga sales down? Get the facts, man!
("…it will be controlled by a Mac or PC…") Anyone that is stupid
enough to buy a Video Toaster and a Mac or PC to control it is as
"brain-dead" as NewTek is for selling such a setup.
You, and millions like you, that think the PC and Mac are the only two
choices are being misled down a path of self destruction and corporate
influence by the "brain-dead" computer press. With Apple and IBM working
together on an entirely new platform, the demise of the Mac and PC are
closer than you think. Sure, the clones will be around for a long time.
But, do you think the clones represent advanced technology? No. They'll
keep cramming faster and faster CPU's into them until their anchient bus
architecture explodes.
I don't mind if you use a PC or a Mac. That's your choice, and perhaps it
is the best choice for _your_ needs. However, you have _no right_ to tell
me what I _should_ be using! I'm entitled to an opinion and a choice just
as you are.
Wayne Steele
Saving $ with AutoPilot
Technology is not always the important issue. From this point of view, the
Amiga is still far ahead. As I mentionned to ther people, the danger the
Amiga is facing is greater than most would believe. The messages I left
were designed to get attention. And I believe I got what I wanted. What I
do, is I believe in the best interest of Commodore. Try to make people
realize what the real issue is.
People who leave the Amiga as I did, do not leave it because they do not
like. I still love my Amiga. They leave because they have to. They need
because they want to be able to bring their work from their offices. They
need to switch because they want to run a specific software like Page Maker
Quark XPress, etc…
The niche the Amiga seems destined to occupy is too small for it to
survive. This is the danger the Amiga is facing. Do you know why
Commodore doesn't advertise ? Do you know the real reason why commodore
sells its computer to such a low price ?
The prices you pay when you buy the computer barelly covers the cost of the
hardware. Of course, Commodore makes some profits over it. But if
commodore wants to Bring an Amiga 10 000 for example, it would need to
invest heavilly in R & D. The profits Commodore is making does not cover
that. And what is left is not enough for a sleek advertising campaign. In
short the profit margin is too narrow for Commodore to invest heavilly in
itself. This is the danger.
On the other hand, you get a log of bang for your buck. You still have the
best hardware. But how long before the edge you have will be passed by
other platforms ? If Commodore doesn't survive
the Amiga won't last very long either.
I hope the A4000 changes all that. But we have to wait and see.
Jean-Eric Henault
Montreal