#KUB's TSE saves 3DS!!!!!
14 messages in this thread
David is correct, of course. I am not in any way connected to KUB. I am
just an enthusiastic (perhaps a wee bit over-enthusiastic) fan. 🙂
My point remains that TSE is highly beneficial to the future of 3DS, and
that Autodesk could do a lot worse than to bundle it in with the current
version. We were promised Spline Patch Modelling in the press release which
officially announced "Release 4." That press release was the only official
source of specifications on Release 4 at the time most of us committed to
upgrade to it. The Spline Patch Modeler described in the press release was a
major factor in M&M's decision to upgrade, and I'm sure it was for others as
well. It was one of the factors which made us believe that upgrading would be
worth the price stated in that same press release. NOWHERE IN THE PRESS
RELEASE was there any mention of "These specifications subject to change."
Therefore, Autodesk at the current time is guilty at least of
misrepresentation, in my opinion. We upgraded expecting to get something that
we were promised and that we didn't get. The price of the upgrade was not
lowered to reflect the loss of value. At the very least, Autodesk is OBLIGATED
to provide us something OF AT LEAST EQUIVALENT VALUE to the Spline Modeler.
Sorry, but the Texture Browser ain't it, especially since we already had it
thanks to the Texture Universe CD-ROM, but it wouldn't have been even if we had
not already had it. Browsing textures quickly isn't anywhere remotely near
organic spline-patch modelling in terms of value to us in the 3D animation
business.
Now I understand that circumstances made it impossible for Autodesk to
include the Spline Patch Modeller. Nevertheless, they promised it to us in an
OFFICIAL Press Release which also announced the pricing of the upgrade. They
did so WITHOUT providing any sort of legal loopholes for themselves about
"specifications subject to change" or some such. Their hands are tied,
legally. We users would be justified in a class-action lawsuit at this point
for misrepresentation, or at the VERY least "bait and switch." But I for one
would consider the full Script Extensions from KUB as being of roughly
equivalent value to the Spline Modeller. If that were provided at Autodesk's
expense, I would consider the price of the upgrade as being worthy of what we
got (which I am otherwise very, very disappointed in), especially in light of
the fact that we were OFFICIALLY PROMISED more than we got. Browsing textures
may not be even remotely anywhere near the value of spline modelling, but being
able to write our own Universal .PXPs, .SXPs, .AXPs, and .IXPs in a high-level
language (not to mention taking advantage of the vast numbers of such routines
that others here will surely write and upload or make available as shareware or
low-cost commercial software) certainly would be! Look what POCO did for
Animator Pro!
>> "specifications subject to change" or some such.
Hello again. FWIW, the literature I picked up at Siggraph clearly stated that
the proposed features were preliminary only and subject to change. If you have
some other "official" document, then perhaps you have a case.
>> Script Extensions from KUB as being of roughly equivalent value
I would give them a much higher value than the patch modeller. The problem
with your argument is that Autodesk doesn't OWN the Script Extensions.
– Dave Marks
???
A press release is not a contract, or even a promise, it's an attempt to
generate free publicity. The leagalistic spin you've been putting on your
whinnings is wearing thin.
Press releases are routinely full of half-truths and hyperbole in the computer
industry. It's cheerleading, so what ? Autodesk is one of the few companies
though, whose press releases have always been virtually free of information
that later turns out to be wrong.
I agree that the texture browser/ spline modeler trade-off is a crappy deal.
But I also feel that r-4 is still worth the upgrade price. I believe that ADESK
has erred greivously in making the upgrade only "worth it" as opposed to the
last two upgrades which were full of value beyond the user base's expectations.
People vote with thier dollars, the market place will sort this out, just as it
did when ATT/CRYSTAL gave away thier TOPAS market by repeatedly doing what
ADESK just did. That's how you turn-off rabid, evangelical fans like the 3DS
users here. Fool us once, shame on you, fool us twice, lose your market ! I
think I know Gary Yost well enough to predict this will NOT happen again, and
that R-5 will blow us all away.
If you are some sort of leagel beagle, and really believe that at the time of
the press release you reference, ADESK already planned to pull the spline
modeler, go ahead and sue them. Things change, shit happens, people fail, there
was no master plan to screw you, they simply dropped the ball.
Otherwise – Please. . . Shut Up !
Does anyone know of a BOZO FILTER add-on for TAPCIS so I don't have to wade
though this guys rantings ???
Bruce N. Goren
Bruce, sorry if my "whinnings" [sic] and rantings offend you. As for
legalease, no, most press releases aren't legally binding as contracts. But
then again, most press releases aren't written as the official announcements of
the features of a product and its price, with NO "escape clause." Corporations
are usually savvy enough to include such a clause in any press releases or
other official announcements for just this reason. Someone at Autodesk loused
up in forgetting to include that clause. So no, it's not a contract. It IS,
however, a form of advertisement, and there's this little federal law you may
have heard of called "Truth in Advertising."
I have no intention of suing Autodesk. I want 3DS to succeed too badly
(which is why I care enough to be posting here at all). I was just pointing
out that those who are more ticked off about this than I am, and who don't care
for the continued success of 3DS, may well want to sue, and would have grounds
for doing so. A warning, not a threat.
In our case, after reading about the Spline Modeller in the Press Release,
we started pursuing some business we otherwise wouldn't have gone after —
projects which would require Splines to be cost-effective (or, in some cases,
even possible). Fortunately, we didn't COMMIT to doing any such projects, but
that's not any of Autodesk's doing. Maybe there are some 3DS users who DID
commit to doing projects which required Splines, based on Autodesk's official
announcement that such would be included. Those companies would DEFINITELY
have cause to sue, and would likely have the inclination to do so as well.
Your anonymous whinings not only offend me — they BORE me.
Stick to the subject, your contributions to the general 3DS discussion based on
your knowledge of the program are far more interesting, even when wrong.
Intent is the key here.
When ADESK issued the PR they fully intended to deliver the feature. It was in
the final beta review copies sent out to test sites and journalists.
It didn't work out, they're sorry, too bad — get past it.
Where is the deception here ? It is self-deception, bordering on paranoia.
(JONAS – I know you're snickering out there but hey, I don't work for ADESK so
I don't have to be nice. )
Re: Lawsuits brought by fools who commit to projects anticipating software not
yet released.
Cause for action ? — Dubious at best.
Standing ? — None !
Inclination ? — Of course. That's why we need tort reform to make the losing
party pay all court costs and eliminate frivolous product liability suits by
idiots who refuse to accept responsibility for thier own actions or the nature
of reality.
But it's all speculative — and in your head. If not your company, name me one
user ready to sue over this. Name me one user who made the kind of commit you
describe in your "what if" narrative. Leave us out of your sweaty nightmares,
you're only blowing smoke.
Bruce N. Goren
>> I don't have to be nice.
But does it really help anyone if you're not?
– Dave (c'mon – everyone relax)
Let him/her/them know what you _REALLY_ mean, Bruce. Don't hold anything
back…:)
>> I want 3DS to succeed too badly (which is why I care enough to be
>> posting here at all).
Written words tend to come across very strongly – especially on matters of
opinion. Take a minute to review your messages before hitting that "send" key.
Sometimes your tone can be a bit intense. Adding a few carefully placed
emoticons (smileys) or parenthetical comments, can really help ease the
tension.
Your posts generally have a lot of valuable facts in them. Why not visit the
forum a little more frequently, get to know the regulars a little better, and
learn/share with us? I think you will find that most of us here share your
hopes of 3DS succeeding.
– Dave
Bruce,
Did you mean "shittah happens?" Talk about your master plans!
BOZO FILTER? Well now, I could interpret that in one of two ways.
You'd like my services. Or you'd like something that doesn't exist.
Of course there's many other ways to interpret things.
Life is so…
Kappy the Klown (with Bozo nose on) a.k.a. The Gibbering Gib
Kappy, Babe,
What ? You never heard of a Bozo filter ? High profile Internet users set up
thier E-Mail in-boxes to scan for certain return addresses and automatically
toss or refuse files from known harassers. I was hoping there was a TAPCIS
add-on which would simply skip DL'ing forum messages from certain CIS ID's
listed in a "don't read stuff from these guys array" for when I sweep through
here on autopilot. In your case it's easy, forum sections, and obvious headers,
I can skip no problem. So if it's in the 2K section or is a Take-5 header that
says something like "I AM GROK, ROCK ME!" , I know it's probably from you and I
can skip reading it. <grinning, ducking, and running>
Bruce
>> I was hoping there was a TAPCIS add-on…
FWIW, OzCIS has a filter. I'm not sure about Tapcis.
– Dave
TAP does have such a filter, check the destructions. It doesn't prevent TAP
From downloading the messages, it just doesn't show them to you while you're
reading them.
Thanks, I'll check my 5.42 manual more carefully !
Bruce
<<In your case it's easy, forum sections, and obvious headers, I can skip no
problem.>>
How did Kevin's latest one get through, then? Was the BOZO FILTER sleeping at
the time? 😉
David "Counterespionnage" Gould