#A3000 vs MAC
15 messages in this thread
I have been asked by a friend for advice on the purchace of a computer.
His needs are for some not too advanced DTP, a database and a
wordprocessor.
As far as the word processor and the database are concerned I know that an
Amiga could fulfil his requirements but for DTP I'm not so sure, mainly
because this is not an area in which I have much experience.
My friend has been advised to buy a MAC, as this is the acknowledged
machine for DTP. The model that he is loking at is the LC II (I think),
the one with the '030 processor. With the recent reduction in price of the
A3000 here in the UK there's not much difference between this and the
recommended MAC. I realize that the A3000 is the better machine and I
would not hesitate to recommend this apart from a few reservations where
my knowledge is lacking.
Am I correct in thinking that the MAC can utilize the same resolution as
the A3000 but with a greyscale of 256 instead of the 16 colours of the
A3000. If this is the case it would be to his advantage to buy a MAC. Is
it a great advantage that MAC's have built in postscript support?
He is of course likely to get a much better after sales service from the
MAC dealer than from the Amiga one but notwithstanding this are there any
other drawbacks of the A3000 vs MAC that I should know about before I
recommend the A3000 :^).
Thanks for any info.
Greg
Greg…
After seeing your message go without a response for a couple of days, I
forwarded a copy to Michael from SoftLogik… I know you don't want biased
responses, but I thought you might find it of interest to hear from the
horses mouth how at least one Amiga DTP package makes use of 256 colors
for text and structured graphics.
I didn't send a copy to Gold Disk because they do not have a section in
AmigaVendor, however, if you'd like to pose the same question to them, try
this ID#: 75300,3433.
Thanks Micheal,
I'd be interested in their response.
Thanks to everyone else who replied. I must say it hasn't made my task any
easier, just a little better informed. Thanks again.
Greg :^)
Greg,
I hate to say it, but if your friend is not computer lterate, then he
should go for the Mac. I've done a fair amount of DTP using the Amiga, but
I have to convert all my files to Mac format using AMAX before I can get
any sensibly priced output bureau to touch them. The price of the computers
may be the same, but your friend is going to get a nasty shock when he
comes to buy his software. Quark Express, the industry standard Mac DTP
software, will set him back around UKP500, as opposed to around UKP120 for
the current Propage/ProDraw combination special offer. Also, unless he has
a lot of memory, his Mac package is going to be very slow.
The ONLY reason for preferring the Mac to the Amiga for low-cost,
low-volume DTP in the UK is the problem with getting the results output. If
your friend intends just to use a laser printer, then the Amiga will do
fine, but if he needs more sophisticated output and is not prepared to
argue with the typesetting companies, then the Mac is the only way to go.
I can provide samples of Amiga-generated printing if your friend wants to
see some. I'm London based, so drop me a line if you need anything.
Best wishes,
John
– via Whap!
John,
We accept files from just about any source for imagesetter output.
Natuarally 95 % of the stuff we get is from Macs. There is a commonly held
mistaken idea that the PostScript output from Macs is relatively
trouble-free and that it outputs without difficulty. Nothing could be
further from the truth. It _is_ true that the programs themselves on the
Mac as the 'front end' of a process for generating a page of typesetting
and graphics are superior (more polished, more features) to those on Amiga.
However, the PostScript output from the major Amiga programs (Pagestream,
ProPage, ProDraw) is clean and a joy to output. It is _fast_ and appears to
respect the PostScript environment in the imagesetter much better than Mac
programs (it follows the rules).
I agree that someone who has little computer experience should be steered
toward the Mac as a first choice if it is graphic arts work that they want
to do. But, if the Amiga _is_ used, it's output can be sent to just about
any service bureau with a great deal of confidence that it will be accepted
and that the results will be as desired.
I can give anyone who is working on the Amiga brief instructions on how to
give files to a Mac-oriented bureau. If the file consists mainly of
typography, there will be virtually no problems whatsoever. There _is_ a
problem in the case of files that have large included graphics, but these
can be overcome also.
It has been my experience that once the Amiga operator gains a little
experience in preparing files for output, the service bureau will respond
that those files are among the most trouble-free in its operation.
Rich
Richard,
Have you edited your APD and/or the PPD files provided for your VT4300P? I
had done that to make very small pages to output just a few inches of
paper to do a couple business cards, and on the other side, I have made
extra long pages to accomodate larger pages sizes than pagemaker or Quark
provided initially.
Just wondering how your doing with the VT, I miss mine.
Chris
Chris,
Yes, I've done extensive editing of the PPD files.
The Varityper is doing very well. I am consistently outputting four color
at 150 line screens. NO moire at all. Output times are a little long –
about 17 minutes per color for an 8 x 10 page. But that's not bad for the
RIP in that machine. Hopefully in about a year, I'll be able to upgrade to
a faster machine for color work. Registration is superb. I am beginning to
take business away from another service bureau which has higher end
equipment, a pin register system which is producing output no better than
mine. But he has to charge much more than I because he has to amortize the
cost of his equipment
Rich
Rich,
My local service bureau doesn't know what "kind" of Postscript file they
can print. The work is finished in Pagestream. Do I just write it to a
file in ram: then copy it to an MS-DOS disk?
They never heard of an Omega and I never heard of "just regular".
Thanks for any assistance,
"…My local service bureau doesn't know what "kind" of Postscript file
they can print…"!!!
What a service bureau! Maybe they should call themselves SLUGgish Bureau.
Postscript files are (should) the same, regardless of what platform,
software generates them (if the rules are obeyed). EPS Postscript files
placed into any Postscript file will print on any Postscript device.
If you are using Pagestream print the file to disk. Copy it to an MS-DOS
formatted 720K disk using CrossDOS on your Amiga. Give the Sluggish Bureau
the disk, tell them it is postscript file xxxxxxxx.ps and DON'T even
bother telling them which platform generated the file. Make sure though,
that all the settings are correct before you print to disk. Page
orientation, crop marks ON? or OFF?, Thumbnails OFF?, etc. It is UP to the
individual that produces the Postscript file to get everything set
properly, because the postscript file is not easily correctable by the
bureau. It can be done, but I'm gonna charge you and so will they IF
I/They would even consider editing it, which his highly doubtful. You
should learn the size of the imageable area of your bureau's imagesetter.
Mine was 12" wide x 150'long, roll material and the imageagble area was
around 11.7" of that width, actually I got closer to the edge than that
but 11.7 is a safer bet. So orientation is important if your printing a
portrait page that is oversized, and is 15" TALL by 8-1/2" wide. Richard
will confirm that for you, he's using the same machine I owned.
Chris
Paul,
Pagestream will do just fine. Before I give you instructions on getting
your output ready for an imagesetter I need a few more details. The
following is very important:
What is the page size of your document?
What is the media width in the Imagesetter (film or paper).
These both must be known and dealt with. This is the one area where 'output
device independence' in PostScript breaks down.
Get back to me with that info. You are going to output your file to disk or
Ram: and then copy that file to an MS DOS formatted 3.5 floppy. Give the
Service bureau the MS DOS floppy which they can read into their MAC with
Apple File Exchange. Once the file is on their Desktop, they send it to the
imagesetter with a program called SendPS which they have. That's it.
Of course, you could send the file to them via modem, or they could read
your disk on a PC if they have one set up.
But first, I do need the specifics mentioned above, or your file may not
print on their machine. Once you learn what to do, you will find that the
steps needed can be accomplished faster than they can de described.
Pagestream is extremely flexible in its output options.
"The good news is, we have full control over all the variables." The bad
news is we have full control over all the variables.
Rich
My printed area is no more than 8.33" x 10.875". I called and asked what
width the imagesetter is, I think I better find another service bureau.
They said all there printers are same size. Am I in the wrong place?
I'm still in the roughing out phase of my document, should I stay within
any particular dimensions? I tend to limit things to what my DeskJet can
proof to.
The help is very much 'preciated.
Paul, This service bureau doesn't sound like they are too with it in the
service area. "All our printers are the same size?" Duuhh! Great answer,
maybe that person should run for political office. Ask them specifically,
"What is the width, and the maximum imageable area your imagesetter?"
"What is its maximum dpi?, Does it use roll paper and film media?" What
mfgr and model imagesetter(s) do you use? Use the dimensions that you
intend your final output to be, and when printing drafts use a percentage
scaled size of the original. Just be sure that you set it back to 100%
before you print the final copy to disk file. I've printed many a client's
job and had them tell me that it should be larger, until I began checking
the percentage of size setting.
Chris
I'm not sure how to go about this…
Sunday evening on Portal Amigazone chat, a regular was talking about
buying a new Mac for DTP. Her main reasons were that Quark did color
WYSIG and ProPage, et al, didn't; and that (she was vague on this) she
couldn't get the Amiga output printed (or something). The thing is, she
has a perfectly good Amiga 3000, and (according to Leo Schwab, who was in
chat, too) she's going to need at least a IIci to run Quark properly.
Whatever… on to the part I'm not sure how to do.
I'd like to see an Internet dialogue set up between you and Julie. Maybe
she just needs some tips on using the 3000 effectively. It sounds like
you might be able to do that. Of course, if you're on Portal, you
probably know her already. That'd be nice. <g>
Her name is Julie Petersen. She has a company called Classic Concepts that
designs fonts. On Portal, she goes by LadyHawke, so her internet address
would be LadyHawke@cup.portal.com.
Hope this works
-DonM – On Autopilot from 1Q1 –
Altitude hold is on; now all's I need is coupled nav!
I'm puzzled about your comments on finding difficulty getting somewhere to
output non-MAC files … I've never had a problem with getting a bureau to
accept PC format disks, which the Amiga can generate with ease. Indeed,
some places say that my Amiga output gives them far less hassle than some
of the MAC-based packages!
You're right about teh Amiga being a very cheap option for DTP … not just
in software, but in hardware too.
Mike (from the UK)
Ditto on the puzzle re getting Amiga DTP output done by a Service
Bureaux.
Mike spelled it out months ago to someone else….and I did what he said
and it worked OK.
1/ Use CrossDos to format a "PC" disk on your Amiga.
2/ In PPage etc save your work as "Postscript" output onto the above
disk. With a file name up to six characters long and ".XXX"
extension to comply with the PC way of file naming.
eg… FLYER1.PST
That was basically it.
The place I
have been to about 6 times now is Macs every-were land, but
they did it and produced the Bromide output OK.
The .info file that our software attaches to a file was a
mystery for them but they got past it ok.
Mikes info was a real help to me and I hope that this helps someone else.
Laurie Carroll AKL NZ
Amiga-Via Falnet.APb