#Amiga Downloads
23 messages in this thread
Jerry,
Well, just so you can see the other side…. I think the Amiga is the ONLY
OS that _isn't_ brain dead. It will probably amaze you to hear it but
until about two weeks ago I was at the point of giving up on *_MACS_* as
being totally unusable. But I put my nose to the grindstone and now
consider them barely usable. 🙂
The event that brought about my transformation was the Mac at the office
suddenly refusing to recognize its hard drive. I knew that if I didn't fix
it, it would never be fixed.
Crazy world, ain't it?!
Malcolm
All operating systems have problems. My primary complaint is that I can't
open the manual, flip to the index, find my topic and then go to the page that
explains what I want to learn.
To me, that's a very major problem.
Your problems with the Mac OS are somewhat different. I hold that System in
very low regard, although I think the interface is the best on the market. The
Operating System itself is a hodge-podge of modules that basically defies user
involvement.
(One of my biggest kicks about the Macintosh is that a couple of years back
the trade press was making a big scream about the emergence of a program that
could execute scripts on the Mac – something that every other OS, including the
Amiga's, has had since the dawn of time.Back in 1984 the same magazines were
raving about how wonderful it was that the Mac didn't have a command-line
function and you didn't have to worry about things like ".BAT" files. Go
figure.)
Personally – though I use it less than any other OS – I prefer MS-DOS,
especially for some of the heavier administrative tasks we have to do around
here like moving thousands of files at a crack.
But let me stress that I don't raise any of these OS' on a pedestal. They all
have advantages and disadvantages. At the moment, I just haven't found anything
to like about the Amiga OS.
Who knows, though: I have to learn it because I have to use it, so there's
still hope.
Jerry
If you like MS-DOS so much, edit your startup-sequence (aka: autoexec.bat)
and remove the loadwb command and run everything from the OS shell.
-Jonathan
// Amiga online via Autopilot
\\// MAC IIcx & 486 emulation via Amiga!
Jonathan:
Whoa! I simply said I preferred MS-DOS for some of the work we have to do, a
large part of which is moving, copying, archiving and shuffling thousands of
files at a time.
There is no motivation whatsoever for me move those already clearly defined
tasks to the Amiga or any other machine and, for the relatively small amount of
time I will be spending with the Amiga, there is even less motivation to learn
a lot about its Operating System.
I'll learn what I have to in order to use the Video Toaster and associated
programs, but no more than that, thank you. <G>
Jerry
The reasin you like DOS is why I suggested the Amiga command line… they
are somewhat similar.
The thing that you have to understand about those heavily detailed PC and
Mac operating manuals is that both of those platforms have had a
headstart, as both were available before the Amiga was born. The larger
the market, the more $$$ there is to produce manuals. And manuals are VERY
expensive to produce. Several Amiga developers are moving manuals to
hypertext formats. There was an AmigaDOS manual in AmigaGuide (hypertext)
format.
Since Amiga sales had surpassed 3 million not long ago, we've been seeing
many more new developments and, yes, improvements to the manuals.
As you have apparently many grievances with the manuals, please use the
Amiga forums to the hilt. You'll find many people here who want to help if
they can.
As for AutoPilot, it is partially an online navigator and partially an
offline tool for reading/writing messages and setting up things that you
would like to have performed online automatically. The software starts as
a crippled demo which is limited to the Amiga forums. When you pay the
registration, you get a key file via E-Mail to unlock the many
professional features which are asleep in your demo. It is a great program
that will save you alot of money.
-= Vance =- Image Master
Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster R/t!
Vance:
Don't I remember the Amiga as being introduced at just about the same time as
the Macintosh? Around 1984? I owned one of the very first models of the Amiga
which I used for dabbling with sound and sold it a few years back.
I can't really agree with you about the basis of the poor manuals. When the
Amiga was introduced Commodore was riding very high and the manuals back then
were equally poor, as I recall.
In any event, I have the basics of what I need down and, hopefully, that will
carry me through most of what I have to do.
Jerry
Hmm, I don't remember it like that, but then, I live in Canada, and CBM
Canada and CBM USA have rarely worked in sync.
Ultimately, it's irrelevent to your situation. You now have the
information to buy 3rd party manuals and/or ask around here.
What kind of video work are you doing, anyhow? *8)
-= Vance =- Image Master
Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster R/t!
Basically I'm just experimenting. Haven't touched video or fim in thirty
years.
Jerry
Do you plan to do hobby, industrial or commercial ventures once you get
the hang of the Toaster software? Also, have you been in the AmigaArts and
AmigaVendor forums? That's where I hang out mostly with AutoPilot. You can
talk to many of the people who write the Amiga/Toaster books and video
tutorials. There are Toaster people who are making the CG effects for
"seaQuest DSV" and other productions.
-= Vance =- Image Master
Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster R/t!
"Do you plan to do hobby, industrial or commercial ventures once you get the
hang of the Toaster software?"
I really don't know.
All of my hobbies turn into businesses, but I can never predict just what
turns will be taken along the way.
Thanks for tips on AmigaArts. Hadn't been there yet.
Jerry
AmigaArts and AmigaVendor will serve you well. You'll actually find some
people who will actually agree with you on some things. <G>
AmigaArts has a Desktop Video section with carloads of great tips and
AmigaVendor has a NewTek section where you can chat alot about the Video
Toaster. The latter also has some sample ARexx scripts that you can
download which allow you to automate batch processes.
Those areas will probably play a role in your decision of which avenue to
take with your Video Toaster.
-= Vance =- Image Master
Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster R/t!
Thanks, Vance.
At the moment, I am still exploring the technology. It isn't something I have
to do for a living (in fact, I'm very happy I have enough income to support the
need to supply myself with video gear and software! Expensive!)
I started off in non-theatrical film about thirty years ago, so it's still
whiz-bang stuff to see what the Video Toaster can do.
Jerry
One of the topics in AmigaArts and AmigaVendor is the "Screamer" tower
for use with Lightwave. It is an alternative rendering engine to the
motorola 68000 series. It attaches to the Amiga/Toaster and whenever
you want to render images in Lightwave, the work is sent to be done
in the tower unit. The "Screamer" uses 4 RISC chips to deliver 2X
the rendering speed of a CRAY 1. The suggested retail price is
$9995.00 and the street price will be less. The units are being beta
tested on shows like seaQuest. When released, you'll be looking at
virtually realtime rendering (moments, instead of hours per pic).
Impulse, makers of the Imagine rendering program, are also developing
the same type of hardware and say the price will be much lower than
the Screamer.
Actually the first manual I got for the Amiga was a large spiral bound
manual that for it's time, was very complete. MS-DOS manuals are nothing
to tout about… why do you think that the book stores have hundreds of
books on how to use MS-DOS ???
-Jonathan
// Amiga online via Autopilot
\\// MAC IIcx & 486 emulation via Amiga!
Well, I think Jerry's point was that the initial manual that comes
with the PC is better than the one that comes with the Amiga. Whether
more manuals were required for the PC is aside from his original
point.
I don't have a problem with my Amiga manuals, but then, hey, I usually
don't need to use manuals. *8)
-= Vance =- Image Master
Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster R/t!
<<<I don't have a problem with my Amiga manuals, but then, hey, I usually
don't need to use manuals. *8)>>>
I can relate to that…..
My point was that to learn MS-DOS and Windows is just as much a bear and
the Microsoft DOCS are nothing to boast.
-Jonathan
// Amiga online via Autopilot
\\// MAC IIcx & 486 emulation via Amiga!
From my own experience, I agree. IMHO *8)
-= Vance =- Image Master
Flying high on Black Belt Systems' Imagemaster R/t!
Jerry,
Ooops! Memory failure. I remembered your name from DTP Forum (quite a
while ago) and incorrectly remembered you to be a Mac afficionado.
Sorry.
I used PCs for 5 years before I started using Amigas. I still find
the Amiga a much more agreeable environment than DOS but at Win3.1,
PCs are almost at a usable state. All my work is PC and it's better
now than it's ever been.
Malcom:
I'm not a fan or afficianado of any Operating System or platform. I have to
use too many of them to happy with any.
The Amiga is frustrating to me because the manuals are very poor
(and I am one of those people who reads the manual) and the GUI
strikes me as archaic. Personal opinions, of course.
I'm as comfortable with Windows and OS/2 as I am with the Mac. But
the Amiga just doesn't seem to fit with the current trend in
operating systems – and I don't think it's exactly breaking any new
ground either.
O.K., this I have to hear. I have used both Windows and Macs, and
have several Amigas for my personal use. What exactly causes you to
find the Amiga GUI as "archaic" compared to those? And what version
are you running?
"What exactly causes you to find the
Amiga GUI as "archaic" compared to those?"
The whole thing seems clunky to me. The idea of needing to hit a
"gadget" to toggle between windows. The lack of uniformity in icon
sizes. The relative uselessness of many of the menu commands – "Leave
out" and "Put away" rank high on my list. Why can't I just be content
to drag my icon to where I want it or create an alias?
The "Snapshot" command seems to echo from another generation. Why I
can't just rearrange the elements in a window and the system
remembers where I left things? Why should such a command even clutter
my menu?
Very high on my list of clunky-features-I-can-live-without is the
need to choose between "View all files" and "Icons only". This one
drives me batty. Why would I have a file to begin with if I didn't
want it to show (without intervention) in my directory? Maybe I'm
really slow, but I just don't get it.
It's late and I'm on the Mac right now, so I can't give you a
complete list of all the things I don't like about the Amiga
interface. They're all little things, to be sure, but they're all
things that from my perspective hinder my work or just plain irritate
me.
Again, I hope no one takes this as "bashing". These are just
comments and opinions about what I don't find particularly appealing
in the Amiga interface.
Unfortunately, from my perspective, I have no choice but to learn
the Amiga in order to use the Video Toaster, AmiLink and associated
programs. I think NewTek did the right thing by essentially allowing
a user to avoid dealing with the Amiga OS at all. But if I want to
use other programs, I have to learn it and learn it I will.
But that doesn't mean I have to respect it if there's nothing there
(in my opinion) to respect.
Well, I don't want you to think we Amiga fanatics are an overly
sensitive bunch. I think the problem is that you are complaining
about the operating system, which most of us regard as one of the
*strengths* of the Amiga. While the machines are not perfect, THAT
is not one of the major problems. Some of your points:
1. >need to hit a gadget to toggle between windows< You don't. You
can do it from the keyboard (left Amiga m) to toggle between
screens. Or do you really mean windows? In that case put
"ClickToFront" in your WBStartup drawer and you can doubleclick
anywhere you want in a window to bring it to the front.
2. >clunky icons< Well, yeah, some of them are pretty big and
gaudy. Mostly because on the Amiga, we *could* have icons like
that. If it bothers you, select "view by name" and you won't have to
look at them. Almost everyone I know who uses a mac does it that way
too.
3. Personally, I kind of *like* snapshot. Its a lot less easy for
someone else (like kids) to screw up your system.
4. >Icons only< Oh no, this is an advantage! It means that the
only files you have to see are the ones that actually DO something,
and not all the system and support files. But if you NEED to see
those files, you can. I like it a lot better than playing "program
program, where's the program" on the Mac. Although most of us
power-user types have the programs we use in drop down menus (I have
my 40 most used programs there), so we aren't hunting through the
windows for things very often.
Really, give it a chance. A lot of the stupidities in MS-DOS are not
present in Amiga-DOS, and Amiga-DOS has many features they can only
dream of. AREXX is *truely* wonderful, as you'll find out if you
start using it, and it is supported by almost all major programs. And
we have the best directory utility program on *any* platform (IMHO),
DirectoryOpus.
And, of course, the Amiga has the most helpful user community of any
computer. <G>