#Stable Switcher images?
22 messages in this thread
Help Help!, I can't seem to get a stable video signal if I connect
more than one source to my Toaster 4000 board in my amiga 2500. Could
the problem be improper termination? The image is very stable when
only one input is connected.
I have tried connecting a video camera, laser disk player, and cable
tv signal from my vcr's video out to inputs 1 thru 4. Everything is
fine until I hook up a second video signal, at which time the second
video signal is unstable (kind of scrambled, with a thick black
vertical and horizontal line on the screen).
Assuming that it is a problem with improper termination, I bought some
75 ohm coax "F" type terminators from Radio Shack. Using a BNC to
"F" adapter, I attached these to my unused video inputs on the T4000
board, but there was still no change. What am I doing wrong? If
anyone can explain the proper procedure regarding termination and the
toaster 4000, I would appreciate it. I know, call Newtek, right?
Just thought I'd ask here first.
Multiple video signals into the Toaster MUST be time base corrected.
To do this, you'll need a TBC for each signal that you want to
input. You can pick up a Kitchen Sync for around $1300, which is a
dual TBC on one computer card, or you can get separate TBC's starting
at around $800.
Jerry, thanks for the reply… ok, I give up. Can I borrow 1300
dollars? <grin>. Seriously, I've been playing with lightwave
mostly, and i am amazed at what it can do. Wednesday thru friday I
will be attending the Toaster Training in Paradise. Hope to become
more toaster literate by Friday. BTW the maxtor 200 meg drive works
fine, like you said it would.
Daniel,
Wish I wuz gonna be in Toaster Paradise Wed-Fri !!! Instead, I'm in the
birthplace of Elvis…
Glad the Maxtor worked for you.
Jerry
Jerry, do you mean Memphis? Yeah, I am just lucky that the seminar
came to my part of the world …amazing. I'll let you know how it
goes.
<<< Jerry, do you mean Memphis? >>>
Danny, No, Tupelo, MS. Yes, you are indeed lucky to be able to go to
that Toaster training session; it should be a great one. Heck, I
went to a little one-day Stranahan seminar and learned a TON. I can
only imagine what knowledge could be gained by 2-3 days with the
experts of the caliber that are gonna be there…
Jerry, I have just completed day 2 of the Toaster Training in
Paradise… About 60 people in attendance. Lee is a great teacher,
one of the best I've had, IMHO. I learned more in two days with Lee
than in two months with the manual and the toaster. I'm glad I knew
SOMETHING, at least I'm not completely lost. Some people in the
class don't even have toasters yet!
Lot's of great tips on toasterpaint, CG, and Switcher yesterday.
Lightwave Essentials today. Kiki Stockhammer stopped by yesterday…
Wow. John Gross and Tony Stutterheim taught a class today on
advanced lightwave, and will teach more classes tomorrow.
By the way, my wife is from Maui, although we live on Oahu. If you
ever plan to visit, let me know.
p.s. Lee demo'd the DPS PAR today. He swears by it, and considers
it indispensible for anyone doing animation. It looked GREAT to me.
Unbelievable quality, with instant access to animations and
framestores I couldn't see any drop in image quality due to
compression, even on captured video, which Lee played back from the
PAR hard drive. The demo brought oooh's and aaah's from the
audience, who stayed after 6:00 pm to watch. Gotta get one
myself…please send money. 🙂
Glad to hear that the training's going well; wish I was there, and
will let you know if I ever make it over… Now, that JG/TS advanced
LW course is something I'd _really_ like to attend; wouldn't mind
seeing what Kiki looks like in person, either.
That's not entirely correct. ALL signals must be free of timebase
errore, but more relevantly, signals going into inputs 2,3 and 4 must
be in sync with the signal on input one. Your second source should
be genlockable, like a camera or anything going through a TBC.
I can only state what I found in my particular attempts at running
non-TBC'd sources through the Toaster; on my system, _nothing_ works
except the sources being run through TBC's. I can run a camera
through input one by itself, but that's about the extent of what I
can do without TBC's. (My VCR's are genlockable, BTW…) Have you
had success at using non-TBC'd sources with the Toaster ??
Yes, but those sources can NEVER be vcrs. I have (sometimes) two or three
genlockable cameras (well the one on input one isn't but that's why it
gets to be 'house sync'). Laser disks also produce a clean signal which
doesn't need a TBC. I've never seen a genlockable laser disk player…
but i haven't looked. Camcorders work live, but on playback, they need
TBCs as do all decks (good one have 'em built in). Most of the stations I
get on cable or broadcast are also good sources which don't require time
base correction.
You're absolutely right, of course, on the genlockable cameras being
able to feed the Toaster without TBC's. This thread started with
specific VCR questions, but I think we should have sufficiently
explained the issue, or at least thoroughly confused the newcomer…
<G>
Daniel,
Termination isn't your problem GENLOCK (all video sources timed to the
same reference signal) is your problem. You must provide either one
stable sync source to all the video sources (if they have sync input
or genlock inputs) or run the sources thru TBC's (a major waste of
money if they are already stable).
Thanks Frank, I did call newtek tech support this am, they told me the
same thing, sort of. The guy said I needed a distribution amplifier,
available thru radio shack! I went down to Radio Shack, but didn't
buy anything. TBC's are on my must have list anyway, so I guess I'll
be ordering them soon. Will TBC's take care of it alone, or do I
need a Sync generator too? Gee, this is getting complicated. 😐
<Will TBC's take care of it alone, or do I need a Sync generator too?>
Anytime you need to connect multiple video sources to the Toaster,
they must share the same sync signal. Many people buy an inexpensive
black burst generator, others (like myself) use a pro video camera's
color bars as the reference signal and "loop" it thru the genlock
connections of the TBC(s) as a way of syncing everything together.
This latter option allows for a mounting the camera on a copy stand
and having it's video signal (either color bars or whatever is in
front of the lens) loop thru the other devices and eventually come in
on input one of the Toaster's switcher. It slightly degrades the
video signal from the camera but is still adequate for grabbing logo
art & photos for touch up in Tpaint. It was handy to have my old
digiview setup so I could use the same copy stand.
Regarding your comment about things getting "complicated"
1. There isn't enough space left over in Newtek's ads (after all the
hype) to include the kind of information that I feel is needed to
properly inform the many consumers that are new to pro level video
requirements (ala TBC's required).
2. Magazines like Desktop Video World and Video Toaster User, are a
very good source of such information and I highly recommend you check
them out.
3. This forum is a very good resource because there are so many
people with such a varied range of interests and experience, that you
are nearly always able to get your questions answered by those that
have "been there" before.
Thanks again Frank! Tomorrow thru Friday I will be attending the VTU
sponsored "Toaster Training in Paradise" here in Hawaii. Mebbe I
will get smart, huh?! You are so right…this forum is a great place
to get help. I have been "lurking" around here for a while now,
picking up a LOT of tips; hope nobody minds.
I do subscribe to Video Toaster User…GREAT magazine. By the way, my
current project is an industrial training tape. I showed a rough
demo tape to a bunch of potential partners, and they were very
favorably impressed with the toaster's capabilities… I exercised a
lot of restraint in editing …used mostly cuts and simple fades…
Looks like the project is a go!
p.s. Did you sell all of your used equipment? I ain't got much yet,
as you might have guessed. 🙁
Congrats on the TT in Paradise! Sounds like it will be a lot of fun
(if they threw it in Maui, I'd be a taker in an instant!) I have
heard rumors that there will probably be some Newtek people and
"suprise" guests attending or at least "dropping by". Still have
plenty of gear for sale although some has gone to good homes. Are you
interested in anything in particular?
Daniel,
An inexpensive solution (if all you inputs come from genlockable devices –
i.e. devices with spigots labelled "genlock", "ref in", "ext ref",
"synch" or "ext synch") is the Horita BSG 50 ($289) or CSG 50 (about
$389). They are both combination black burst generators and DAs in very
small packages. Horita 714-489-0240
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
Just for the sake of clarity, the only Distribution Amp function of the Horita
BSG-50 and CSG-50 units is that they provide mulitple outputs of the sync
signals they generate. Also, they will _not_ substitute for TBC's; I tried
that while my Kitchen Sync TBC was in the shop… (Running a blackburst sync
signal from the generator into Toaster input 1, as well as the source VCR's,
and hoping everything would genlock well enough to get by; it didn't work.)
Jerry
Jerry,
Sorry if I implied either:
1) xSG-50's supplied anything but aninternally generated BB/CB signal from
multiple spigots
or
2) that TBC's can be replaced by synch generators and DAs.
I really didn't mean to and hope I wasn't so careless with my words as to
give those impressions. Sorry if I did.
wmc – via Autopilot!
Wayne,
I didn't perceive your message as saying either of those things, but thought it
possible that a newcomer to all this technical stuff might have…
Jerry
Thanks! Whew – thought I may have been loosing it!