#warning
26 messages in this thread
] WARNING !!!!!WARNING !!!!!WARNING !!!!!WARNING !!!!!WARNING !!!!!WARNING
!!!!!
BE VERY VERY CAREFUL IF YOU PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM THE
GRAPEVINE GROUP
3 CHESTNUT STREET
SUFFERN NY. 10901
THE SALES PERSON OR IN THEIR CASE THE DECEPTION SPECIALIST WILL TELL YOU YOU
CAN ORDER AN AMIGA 500 OR OTHER AMIGA SYSTEM FOR WHAT SEEMS LIKE A GREAT PRICE
WARNING !!!!!WARNING !!!!!WARNING !!!!!WARNING !!!!! THE ONE I RECEIVED HAD
NO POWER SUPPLY
NO SOFTWARE
NO MOUSE
JUST THE COMPUTER AND USER MANUAL
WHEN I CALLED THEM THEY HAD THE NERVE TO GIVE ME THE RUN AROUND AND
AROUND AND AROUND ……………………..
JOEL WHO CLAMMED TO BE ONE OF FOUR OWNERS FINALLY AGREED TO SEND THE
POWER SUPPLY AND THE SYSTEM SOFTWARE BUT STEADFASTLY REFUSED TO SEND
THE MOUSE UNLESS I PAID HIM $12.00 FOR IT. HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO USE
AN AMIGA WITHOUT A MOUSE!!!!!
I TALKED WITH DEBBIE AND JOEL NO LAST NAMES OF COARSE. PEOPLE WITH
THINGS TO HIDE OR WHO ARE ASHAMED DON'T GIVE OUT THEIR LAST NAMES.
THEY GAVE ME ALL KINDS OF CRAP ABOUT BUYING IN BULK, COMMODORE NOT
SENDING THE MOUSE WITH THE UNITS ECT.
THAT'S B___ S___
ABOUT THE ONLY THING THEY DID RIGHT WAS TO GIVE ME THE RETURN
AUTHORIZATION #
IF THIS IS THE WAY THESE PEOPLE DO BUSINESS I DON'T THINK THE AMIGA
COMMUNITY NEEDS DO BUSINESS WITH THESE SHYSTERS
DON TALBOT
SLIDELL LA.
I might as well add my two cents. I ordered an Amiga 500 from their
BBS a couple of weeks ago. I got two of the other items I ordered
last week and on the invoice it said the a500, mouse and service
manual were back ordered. It also said the price was 169.95 which is
20 dollars more than it was listed on the BBS. I asked the sysop what
happened and his response was "prices change" (I quote) but that I
should get it for 149.95 like the list said. I called customer
service and talked to Mona (no last name) and she basically said
tough. She said they NEVER sold them at that price and when I pressed
her for an explaination she put me on hold. When she came back she
said that was the price with no power supply. It didn't say anything
about not having a power supply. I didn't figure it would come with a
mouse but if it doesn't come with manuals and software I am going to
be very mad. They seem to take a rather cavalier attitude about
customer relations. The sysop of the BBS is rather flippant and this
Mona person starts out as if I were bothering her. I am seriously
thinking about canceling my order. Anyone know of any other sources
for an Amiga 500 with manuals and software. I saw a listing for a
company in Canada for 148.95. Anyone bought frmo Canada recently?
You might try Tenex. They are large enough that they usually don't
jerk you around when you have a complaint… like the big discount
stores, if you don't like what you get, just return it for a refund.
I have had similar horror stories from the Grapevine group myself. I
can definately relate to your experiences…
Your lucky that you received anything from them. I've been waiting
for over a month for a few odds & ends. Everytime I call I'm told
"Your order will be shipped in a couple of days" I won't fall for
their bargains again
Sorry about your problems, but I have done business with the
Grapevine Group and have always been satisfied. I've dealt with Joel
before and he's always given me a fair deal. I bought a replacement
keyboard from Grapevine and it broke outside of the warranty period.
Joel sent me a new keyboard for free.
I can understand that you're upset, but are you upset at the fact
the A500 didn't come with the items you mentioned or at that the fact
that you weren't made aware about their omission? Did the ad
specifically say it would come with these items or did you just
assume it? Also, what was the price you paid?
Many people who own an Amiga already have the system software and
an extra mouse and would be very happy to pay a very low price to get
a second Amiga. That's probably the kind of people this deal was for,
especially if the price was very low.
It doesn't sound like they tried to deceive you. It just sounds
like a misunderstanding to me. I hope the situation is resolved to
your satisfaction.
I am glad you had good luck from them. They have been brough up in
the past and from what I have seen in past threads, this current
thread and my own personal experiences, they certainly do not have a
very good track record of happy customers at Grapevine.
Now I'm worried, I just ordered a few items from them to help me
upgrade my olde 2000 up to the 2.04 operating system. Has any one
had problems with ROM upgrades, cards etc…
I've dealt with the Grapevine Group on many occasions and have
always been satisfied. I've purchased ROM upgrades, the ECS chip set,
RAM, and other peripherals from them (keyboard, etc.) and never had
any problems. When my keyboard malfunctioned out of warranty, they
even sent me another one for free. I guess there are the occasional
problems and that's unfortunate, but I have been very happy with the
sales and service I have received from the Grapevine Group.
There seems to be quite a few people here who have had trouble with
GrapeVine. Does anyone know if they have an internet address? Perhaps if
enough of us sent letters stating that they're getting some pretty bad
press because of their service they'd clean up their act.
If they notice that business is slow they're liable to assume it's the
economy. If a lot of people write saying that it's slow because they've
gotten a bad reputation for their service maybe they'll change.
I've ordered several things from Grapevine, including the ROM upgrade to
2.1 (2.05?). I had one problem with a card, called them, they said return
it, I had a new card, that worked, in a few days. Kind of frustrating at
the time but, they came through much better that some…
Robb
I don't want to minimize the problems anyone has had with the
Grapevine Group. I know they are real problems for the individuals
involved. And I might be upset if the same thing had happened to me.
But the fact is that I have dealt with Grapevine on numerous past
occasions and have been very happy with their service and with the
way they treated me. So for me, they have been an excellent company
to do business with.
In the latest thread, the person was upset that he didn't receive
a power supply, software, and a mouse with his heavily discounted
A500 purchase. Without commenting on whether the advertised price was
supposed to include these items, the fact remains that Grapevine did
agree to send him a power supply and the software at no charge, and
said they'd send him a mouse for $12. So the issue has become one of
$12, although I do realize that a lot of this has to do with
principle.
But, if the price was not supposed to include any of these items,
then it seems to me that Grapevine has been exemplary in their
customer support by agreeing to send him the first two items for free
because of his protests, despite the fact that others may have had to
pay extra for them. In that case, he should be extolling the virtues
of Grapevine for sending him two free items and only charging him for
the mouse, instead of complaining that he didn't get all three items
for free.
Again, I don't know what the actual ad said. If the ad said that
those items were included with the A500 at that price, or if it was
somehow implied that those items would be included at that price,
then he has a valid complaint.
The fact is that we should all be made aware of the experiences
people have had with different vendors, and that includes the good as
well as the bad experiences. I was just relaying that ALL my
experiences with the Grapevine Group have been very good.
Dom-
I am glad you had a good experience… I am other people have as well.
Coupled with my experience and the expressed anger from others over time
has displayed to me, however, that my situation was more than a fluke.
Should I go into detail on my experiences? No, I think we should let it
rest with a warning.
-Jonathan
// Amiga online via Autopilot
\\// MAC Quadra 700 & 486 emulation via Amiga!
Dom, Jonathan, et. al
>>>>>>>>>> CAVEAT EMPTOR! <<<<<<<<<<<
Paul
Paul,
> CAVEAT EMPTOR!
Hi. Other than as general advice, why did you send that message to me?
😎
Dom Fontana
–> Sent from NY via AP <–
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you at all. You are suggesting,
that this company is selling A500s without power supply, software,
manuals and mouse? This wouldn't be a working computer at all, thus
they could only do this to get the price down.
In one of your earlyer posts, you suggested, that this was an offer
for people who already own an Amiga (thus they already have software
and manuals) and have a spare mouse and powersupply. While the spare
mouse is imagineable (I bought a 3 Button mouse, thus I have one left
over) There is absolutely no reason, why I should have a spare power
supply. Also, it is quite unbelievable that commodore would sell a
computer without the operating software, because they view copying of
the OS as piracy, which would be encouraged by leaving the OS out.
As I stated before, an Amiga without OS, mouse (it has a graphical
operating system remember) and power supply (!!!!!) (how could I even
turn it on without that?!?!) isn't a computer, it's just useless.
These are integral parts of the Amiga, not just some add-ons.
This rises the question, where they got these Amigas. As sould be
clear now it is quite unlikely that they got them from commodore.
This leaves few possibilities: Either they didn't get the
power-supply, mouse etc., because commodore didn't had them at that
time, and C= wasn't delivering them early enough (this is quite
likly, as what I think of C=). But selling a halve machine is not
only unpolite, but quite questionable behaviour.
Maybe they sold it without those parts, just to get the price down.
This is lying to the costumer, at least when they don't advertize it
correctly. Also it leaves the question, what are they doing with the
spare parts, I don't see a market for this.
And it could be possible, that they didn't get it from Commodore, but
this seems very unlikely, where could they get it from?
Markus,
Sorry, but you're mistaken. Here is the exact quote from the message I
sent to Don Talbot:
"Many people who own an Amiga already have the system software and an
extra mouse and would be very happy to pay a very low price to get a
second Amiga. That's probably the kind of people this deal was for,
especially if the price was very low."
===================
Nowhere did I state that a prior Amiga owner would have a spare power
supply and I'm not quite certain how you could have misread my message to
think I said that. My message seems very clear to me.
Again, I don't know exactly what the ad said. The ad is the issue here;
not what was sold to Don. Obviously, and by way of example, if the ad said
Amiga 500 computer without software, manuals, mouse, and power supply for
$99, then I think that's eminently fair and the Grapevine Group has done
nothing wrong. I even asked Don if he was upset simply because the A500
didn't come with these items or because the ad was unclear, misleading, or
ambiguous as to the inclusion of these items, but he didn't respond. If
the ad stated these items were not included, then Don has no cause to be
upset. If the ad was misleading, then I can understand his ire.
So I never said that Don has no right to be upset. I don't think we can
determine whether or not he had a right to be upset, until we know what
the ad said. Since you said you disagree with me, does that mean you think
Don should be upset even if the ad specifically stated that the A500
didn't include the items he complained about? By that reasoning, a person
could be upset when they buy a computer monitor by itself. The monitor
can't be used without a computer. A person buying a monitor wouldn't
assume that the computer came with it. I realize that the items that Don
mentioned normally come with the A500, so the situation is a bit
different. But the point is that whether or not the A500 that Don received
can be used without the additional items should not be the criterion as to
whether the Grapevine Group deceived him. Only the ad for the A500 can
determine that and we don't have the benefit of that ad.
Again, we don't know what ad Don responded to, but in every ad for the
Grapevine Group that I ever saw they always refer to themselves as the
largest dealer for Amiga chips and speciality parts. That's what they
basically sell; replacement chips, keyboards, power supplies, mice,
motherboards, rom-switchers, etc. for the Amiga. They don't normally sell
computers. I have seen some ads where they have advertised refurbished
A500 and A2000 computers for extremely low prices and they include their
own warranty with them. The ads I have seen have specifically stated that
they are USED computers and that you just get the computer itself. You
have to buy the power supply and mouse separately and they do not include
software or manuals. I also have never seen an ad by them where they
claimed to be selling a brand new A500 with all the accessories that Don
mentioned. It's possible that Don bought a refurbished A500 from them and
didn't read the entire ad, but I don't know. I do know that they also sell
the additional items separately.
Dom Fontana
–> Sent from NY via AP <–
Dominick,
I'm sorry, I indeed misread your statement about the power-supply, I just
remembered it was missing, and you said, that some Amiga users "already
have" those parts, thought you were talking about all missing parts, so I
didn't check it.
As for the actual ad for the Amiga, you are indeed right, you can only be
really upset, if the ad didn't mention the missing parts. I also didn't
know this company normaly sells parts (single chips or boards, or whatever
they sell normally) and not hole computers, this at least explains, why
they are selling such a thing at all.
However, knowing about the american advertising practice, it is very
LIKELY, that they didn't mention clearly, that those parts were missing.
On the other hand, because the company gave everything except the mouse
for free to Don afterwards, it seems very likely, that those parts were
not intended to be missing.
Anyhow, an Amiga without power-supply, mouse, and OS software is not
useable at all, and thus I think such an ad should not be made, except it
was stated clearly, and in not to small letters, what is missing (because
an A500 comes with those things EVERYWHERE ELSE).
I also think it is unlikely, that they where selling a used computer,
because you stated, that those were always clearly marked in the ads.
I hope Don tells us about the ad, so we know what we are debating about
<g>, as of now, we can only guess.
Markus
Markus,
I should point out that the ad very specifically lists the A500's under
motherboards, not under computers.
Brian
bjbart@watnxt01.ucr.edu
Markus,
I should point out that many of the people that frequent the Grapevine
group are not your standard appliance computer users. They are a
specialty firm that seems to carry mainly those repair parts and special
tools required to maintain these beasts. They also carry refurbished or
rebuild computers, power supplies, etc.
As for the typical customer profile, I know that I'd fit, and if you're
looking for spare mice (I have five), spare A500 power supplies (I have
two), etc. ad nauseum. I've got boxes of nothing but spares for my Amigas
<grin>. That's not counting the C-64's, Vic-20's….
Take a look at their list of parts and you get the idea, real quick,
that the typical user isn't their source of custom. Or at least, that's
my reading on the subject. I think your reading more into this situation
than is there.
Take care.
Brian
bjbart@watnxt01.ucr.edu
Brian,
What mice do you have and are you selling them?
Thanks.
Dom Fontana
–> Sent from NY via AP <–
Dom,
I've got a bunch of original C= mice, since I've switched to trackballs
and optical mice. Never thought of selling them. Want one or two? Email
me your address and I'll put some in a box and mail it. I still want to
keep a couple of spares, but you can have two.
Brian
bjbart@watnxt01.ucr.edu
I could use them if Dominick does not want them 🙂
Let me know??
–Paul–
> I still want to keep a couple of spares, but you can have two.
Do you mean for free? If so, that's awfully nice of you. I really
appreciate it. EMail to follow.
OK, OK, I'll keep my mouth shut now. I was just a little puzzled, that
someone blamed a company for not selling a full computer, and several
people say this is perfectly OK.
Anyhow, the discussion so far pointed out clearly, that they sell single
parts, and therefore you should be aware of that, when ordering stuff.
I should also say, that I was a little prejudiced about all that, because
in America there are almost no laws regulating advertising, as opposed to
Germany, where I live. (My father, who happens to sell TVs and Stereos, is
not to happy about all those laws <g>, but from the costumers point of
view, it's very good that no advertising may state, that this product is
"the best" you can buy.) My previews experience about american advertising
gave me the impression, that Grapevine advertised a product for a very
good price, without telling it is not complete, which doesn't seem to be
the case, after all.
Thanks for correcting me
Markus
the GRAPEVINE group states in all of their ads and mailers that they are
motherboards only, or do not include the custom chips or that they have varing
rev. boards or 1.3 roms and OCS. Some people just do not pay attention to what
they do not read. I have never seen a misleading add from GRAPEVINE
I did call COMPUTER ANSWERS this week about A4000/030's they advertised in the
NOVEMBER 1993 Amazing Amiga for $1298. And was told that they upped the price
MONTHS ago and they were now $1498. That does get you. BAIT and SWITCH here in
the STATES.