#R5 Wishlist
12 messages in this thread
I don't buy the QEMM analogy you offer as the logistics and politics don't
compare.
Don:
I probably should have stuck with a car analogy. <G> I'll just go back to the
point: I think speed optimization should be part of the base package and not an
extra.
Bob
Robert,
PMJI, but Liquid Speed is hand optimized algorithms. You don't just "add
optimization" to 3D Studio. It takes time and risk…not every optimization
you try will pay off. We put the time into Liquid Speed. I promise you, there
is no justification whatsoever for just giving it to 3D Studio users.
If we had waited for Yost and crew to hand-code 3DS in assembly (which would
give you the ultimate optimization), we would still be waiting for release 2.
Brian
Vibrant Graphics
Brian:
/__________From your message___________\\
You don't just "add optimization" to 3D Studio.
__________________________________________
I'm sorry I misunderstood but your ad says that you just "pour it in."
/__________From your message___________\\
I promise you, there is no justification whatsoever for just giving it to 3D
Studio users. __________________________________________
I never said anything about giving anything away. I suggested that your
product, if it does what it claims, is something I would like to be part of the
base 3DS package. I don't know how it gets in there or really care how it gets
in there. Autodesk buys out Vibrant, Vibrant licenses the product for
inclusion, it just doesn't matter to me. Maybe Autodesk should develop its own
method for speeding up their product and cut Vibrant out of the loop. Then of
course you guys sue Autodesk like the Stacker/Doublespace debacle.
I'll simplify my already simple view of the whole deal. I think it would be
great if 3DS assimilated all of the best and most requested add-on features. I
prefer to have the fewest number of software sources for my animation needs. I
would like to believe that the price I paid for all of these features gave me a
great value.
Bob
>> Brian:
/__________From your message___________\\
You don't just "add optimization" to 3D Studio.
__________________________________________
I'm sorry I misunderstood but your ad says that you just "pour it in."
<<
I think what Brian meant was that as a _programmer_ you don't just "add
optimization" to 3D Studio. It is the end users that just "pour it in" once
the product is done.
>>I'll simplify my already simple view of the whole deal. I think it would be
great if 3DS assimilated all of the best and most requested add-on features. I
prefer to have the fewest number of software sources for my animation needs. I
would like to believe that the price I paid for all of these features gave me a
great value.
Bob
<<
By how much should AutoDesk raise the price to pay for including all the
add-ons? Programmers don't work for free (although the actual hourly rate is
close). <bg>
Terry Gilbert
Forcade & Associates
Terry:
/_____________From your message_____________\\
By how much should AutoDesk raise the price to pay for including all the
add-ons?
Programmers don't work for free (although the actual hourly rate is close).
<bg> _______________________________________________
Adesk should charge whatever the market will bear. Since I'm a dirt poor
architect and I get paid less than any programmer I can bear to spend +/-
squat. <G> Now, just to complicate things, suppose Autodesk packs R5 with all
sorts of features and can considerably increase the price. Now, Autodesk can
also introduce new 3D Studio LITE with 1/3 less features than the regular
package or is this already called AutoVision.
Bob
Bob,
>I'm sorry I misunderstood but your ad says that you just "pour it >in."
YOU pour it in. We had to pound it in <g>.
>I never said anything about giving anything away. I suggested that >your
product, if it does what it claims, is something I would like to >be part of
the base 3DS package.
Autodesk does have a history of assimilating good horizontal technologies…at
least on the AutoCAD side.
>I'll simplify my already simple view of the whole deal. I think it >would be
great if 3DS assimilated all of the best and most requested >add-on features.
Call it third party developer pride. We don't think Autodesk can compete with
the on-going improvement and new product development that a focused company can
provide. No one's going to argue with you. It would be great if you got
everything for the price of 3DS. However, be careful. You might get what you
ask for and be very disappointed.
Brian
Brian:
I am satisfied that this discussion has run its course. Its very important to
me that I know that Yost, Adesk and all 3rd Party developers acknowledge the
end users wishes. Nobody has to agree with us or change anything for us but
just acknowledge that we offered a suggestion. I don't think I'm the only end
user who truly appreciates Jonas' "'got 'em " responses to wishlist items. Its
a stamp that says 'Autodesk's listening.'
The discussion about 3rd Party add-on packages has been borne out of a fear
that all new features for 3DS will happen outside the core package and as I
noted from the announcement of an upcoming book there are 200 + IPAS routines.
For an end user this translates into a absolute nightmare for support,
installation, upgrades, compatibility, consistency, documentation, etc. I'm
hoping I don't find too many of these new routines useful or I'll be pulling my
hair out for sure. On the other hand, the increase in options is good and the
competition should weed out the good routines from the bad, the responsive
companies from the rest of the pack. As a customer I will always wish to get
more for less, its my nature.
Bob
Well I agree 99%. The 1 % is in that I am of the belief that "speed
optimization" is a misnomer as I think we have a 3DS WITH LS at 100% top speed
and without it it is governed to only 50%. If somebody could just show me how
LS is more like adding a 4 barrel carb and turbo charger to a 2 barrel carbed
engine I might go along with the way LS was marketed. Yes, I like the car
analogy better. <G>
Don:
Vrrooom! Vrrroooom!
Bob
Don,
>If somebody could just show me how LS is more like adding a 4 barrel >carb and
turbo charger to a 2 barrel carbed engine I might go along >with the way LS was
marketed.
Let me try. If you eliminate one function call and replace it with "inline"
code you remove some overhead associated the calling function (pushing values
onto the stack, loading CPU registers, etc.). You may only save a few CPU
cycles. However, do this in a portion of the code that is executed thousands
of times each time the screen is drawn, and you start get visible performance
enhancements. Find enough of these kind of opportunities and you can cut the
display time considerably. In fact, you can cut it in half.
That's it. Find places to save a few cycles inside tight loops and TADA.
Liquid Speed.
Despite it's simplicity, I had a VERY difficult time deciding what language to
use in the marketing of Liquid Speed (without getting into CPU cycles and
such).
I challenge you to try. If anyone can come up with a compelling message, I'll
use it in future LS ads and marketing.
>I think we have a 3DS WITH LS at 100% top speed and without it it is >governed
to only 50%.
Would you mind if I forwarded this message to Autodesk? I think they might take
some offense at the implication. Especially since they believe in LS enough to
let us put copies of the software in the box with 3DS R4.
Best Regards,
Brian
>>Would you mind if I forwarded this message to Autodesk? I think they might
take some offense at the implication. Especially since they believe in LS
enough to let us put copies of the software in the box with 3DS R4.
I guess its all in ones perspective as to how the LS product was developed. If
you went out on your own and developed LS totally independent of Yost or Adesk
input then you deserve all the independence on it you want. On the otherhand,
if this development was born out of the research and development of the drivers
in a close working relationship with Yost Group and Autodesk then it seems to
me that it should be part of the Vibrant driver package that is shipped with
3DS _IF_ Vibrant was hired by Adesk to do this. If Adesk wants nothing to do
with LS as part of the package then they are idiots because LS greatly enhances
the OVERALL performance of 3DS not just one more feature add on like the
typical IPAS plugins. I'm not saying it should be part of the package for free
but I'm saying it should be part of the package even if their is an added cost.