#Boolean //memory
11 messages in this thread
Hallo Bob.
Im working with boolean operations. I have to substract 2 objekts from each
other.
But the on one has nearly faces. With 196 MB RAM adressed with Quemm and a
Swap path about nearly 600 MB free space I get an error message -not enough Ram
for that operation.
Is it possible to calculate the mem requirement before?
Anselm
Anselm:
>> But the on one has nearly faces. <<
I think you left out the number, yes? Most of the times I am able to avoid
using boolean operations in 3DS. I have a Solid Modeller to do anything
complex. My first suggestion is to come up with a modelling technique which
does not require a boolean operation. Can you describe the objects which you
are working with? Maybe we can come up with a way around the boolean
operation. It sounds like you have an extremely complex object, why so many
faces? If this is a common experience for you, you may wish to use a program
like Optimize to economize on the number of faces in your meshes.
– Bob Ritger
>> But the on one has nearly 25.000 faces.ore more <<
When I wrote this message my compi was buisy since nearly 45 min. before
failing totaly.
My 3D Lofted object had to many curves in the 2D shaper depending on the .ai
path importet from Photoshop.!!!! As I told you, I lined up the segments. and
you can't imagine, the boolean operation works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks
Anselm
Hi Anselm,
<< Im working with boolean operations..>>
In addition to Robert's suggestion, there are several tips on pg 7-56 of the
3DS Ref Manual that you should try.
jonas[adesk]
Hi Jonas,
Perfect timing, I'm also having an (unexpected) boolean problem that you may
can help with. I modeling a turbine type compressor. The main body looks
something like an accordian. I created 32 pass tubes to go from one stage to
the other and then boolean'd em all into the main body. No problem with the
boolean operation, but now when rendered, it looks like it is in "Flat"
shading mode. I applied mapping coordinates and the material again, same
thing. I've tried changing from phong to metal, no change. I thought *maybe*
I had exceeded some kind of face limit after the boolean, there are only 16K
(and some change) faces in the object. If I try to tesselate, even at "1", it
says object to large. I grabbed another object in the project and rendered
it, and it looks fine. I *can* smooth it out with autosmooth or the IPAS
smooth, but that then ruins the pass tubes. I am quite confused at this
point, any thoughts?
Thanks,
Terry
Hi Terry,
<<.. any thoughts?..>>
Have you checked your smoothing? See pg 7-127 in the 3DS Ref Man. In
particular, note the picture on pg 7-133.
jonas[adesk]
Terry,
It sounds to me like you've got lots of TINY faces around the boolean joints…
that happens… Two ways to fix it I know of:
Easy way is to select the whole object, then Modify/Vertex/Weld (Selected).
This'll often work.
If it doesn't, or only partially helps, you'd best brush up on your vertex
welding, because you're probably going to have to do it by hand, by zooming way
in on the joins, then individually welding the extra vertices.
An alternative would be to try 3D scaling the object, say 25%, welding selected
vertices again and then rescaling 400% to get your original size back. Be
careful when doing this scaling thing, though or you could wind up welding more
than you want!!!
When trying stuff like this, lots of Saves and Holds after successful steps are
crucial so you don't shoot yourself in the foot.
Hope this helps!
SCL
When doing boolean functions I find that there are many things that one must be
aware of, such as:
1. The amount of faces that are in your scene in which you are trying to
boolean. Many people have said that when exceeding the 65000 face limit, there
will be a boolean failure.
2. Another problem is that boolean doesn't seem to work well with triangular
faces…well unfortuantely, that is most of 3ds models. After all 3ds is based
upon polygonal based modeling (aka triangles).
A suggestion to this problem is to force a lofted shape to become more grid
like in face composition. Alot of models that have triangular faces, all
extend from on vertex. Force your model to goto other vertices by refining the
image in the 2d shaper. Then re-loft. This will then create a better face
construction (more grid like).
If you are making a model that is lofted and tweened from one different shape
to the next, you will notice that the face structure is also grid like, which
will make for a better boolean in the editor.
3. Another quick point that I have noticed, optimizing an object or
tesselating an object could be both harmful and beneficial. If you object has
triangular faces, then by creating more triangles, you could be causing an
instance where your first object does not make a proper cut or fails to cut
(boolean-subtraction). On the other hand, by tesselating a grid-like faced
object, you may be increasing the chance of success.
None of these suggestions are written in stone, but keep an eye on them while
modeling and booleaning, you may see that some of these suggestions may work to
aid you in you quest to boolean better and more successfully.
Good luck.
P.S. if you are doing planer booleaning…consider SCALPEL as an option;
I hear they are working on a spline based program as well!!
Later,
Eric
Eric,
Thanks a lot for that reply. I usually have pretty good success with booleans.
I have found that they are somewhat inconsistant sometimes. If it doesn't work
the first time, just keep asking and it just might. I never did figure out what
happened with the last one I tried though. The object just refused to render in
anything but flat shade (or the appearance of that anyway). I just went another
route to get the same results I was looking for. That's one good thing about
3DS, the cat always get skint, one way or the other.
Thanks for the suggestions, any boolean insights are always welcomed. Terry
PS: I also received a couple of replies to this from Jonas and others. In the
process of installing Tapcis 6 (and quitting smoking AHHHH!!!!) I lost those
files. So if you were one of those who responded, and you see this….Thanks.
I'm sorry I wasn't able to respond directly.
Howdy,
On booleans: Ah, I had missed this thread! Of course, now that I search thrice
daily for messages to 'Peterson' I'm bound to come across yours, too.
I never get the 'Please Adjust Geometry' message anymore. Here's why:
First, when you boolean objects with the 'Weld Vertices' option ON, it DOESN'T
always work. Second, when you loft objects with the 'Weld Vertices' option ON,
it DOESN'T always work. Thus, BEFORE and AFTER every boolean operation, select
the object and do a modify/vertices/weld/selected. You're going to lose
mapping anyway, so it doesn't matter that you lose mapping prior to the
boolean. I have successfully boolean trimmed the same area of the same object
SEVEN times with radically different shapes. Take a look at the fantail of my
Enterprise model; it was done with five successive booleans to define the
hangar door recess, the control cabin, the cutaway below the hull, and the
fantail plan itself.
The thread has already mentioned the problems with re-smoothing booleaned
geometry. I have experienced an odd problem with a failure of autosmooth to
define the booleaned intersection properly, so in the worst case I'll detach
out the adjoining surfaces into separately smoothed surfaces. This seems to be
related to the unusual configuration of the many small triangular faces along
the intersection, even after they've all been globally vertex-welded.
All faces in Studio are triangular. Even if you can't see the diagonal in a
square 'face', it's there. However, some of the algorithms seem more reliable
when meshes are constructed of nice face pairs. Perhaps this goes back to the
original Autodesk insistence that DXF faces always have four points…
Booleaning WILL fail if the total face/vertex counts of the output object
exceed maximum values. Likewise, booleaning may fail when one object or the
other is re-entrant, or doubles back on itself in the area of intersection.
-E