#Win95 vs WinNT
12 messages in this thread
Greetings!
On Win95 being a small step on the way to WinNT: If that's the plan, then why
doesn't Microsoft SAY SO? Furthermore, won't any system that supports Win95
ALREADY support WindowsNT?? I agree with you that the vast majority of systems
out there would support Win 3.x but NOT WinNT, but why not just make WinNT
'friendlier' rather than introducing yet another variant that will make half
the buyers happy and the other half mad as heck? Worse, why introduce another
variant that's incompatible with NT?
We've got stuff that's going to run under DOS for a long time. We've got stuff
that will run under NT because that's what it does. We've got no pressing need
whatsoever to work with Win95, and since half of what I've read has been
overwhelmingly negative, we won't even try. I came to the conclusion that
Win95 was just another way for Bill Gates to grab market share when I went to
pick up a pizza last Saturday night and the guy behind the counter commented on
my 'DOOM' tee-shirt like this: 'Oh, yeah, great game, but it was taking too
much of my time so I wiped it when I upgraded my system to Win95' <strut,
strut, puff puff>. Did this gentleman have any pressing need to spend $90 on
an OS upgrade? Nope. Do you think a tenth of the users out there really
needed the aggravation of moving to a new OS? Not likely. How many casual
users REALLY needed honest multitasking? Sorry. I figure if I were the
richest man in the world my idea of what the world NEEDED would be skewed, too.
Just ask 'Bob'.
Disclaimer: The other half of what I've read about Win95 has been positive.
Likewise, while half my casual-user friends rave about Win95, the other half
either tried to return it or threw it away. I'm probably biased by the fact
that we MUST use WinNT here, and by the fact that we'd probably wind up with
three boot partitions even if it worked flawlessly. A godsend for the masses?
More power to them. Hope the install goes well. 😉
-Eric
It is Mico$ofts short-term plan to move everyone to NT @ work, and '95 at home.
You're right, most people really don't _have_ to upgrade to '95 from 3.1x, but
they will eventually. Everybody will move away from DOS.
Realize that NT is not your run of the mill OS. This is UNIX in sheeps
clothing. And hell yes it's going to be picky about the hardware because unlike
every operating system for the PC, NT talks directly to the hardware. An NT
driver is only there to tell NT "how" to talk to the hardware. Also, In order
to maintain it's C2 level security, NT wants to know exactly what's in the
machine. '95 is for your home office, or you family computer. Sure, it's
32bit. But the API in '95 has much more functions than the other systems. The
real heart of the matter is OLE.
NT and '95 are MUCH better with OLE than 3.1x. OLE is future. Even for MAX.
Thanks for the comments.
We understood that NT was 'serious' software. Else all the serious graphics
developers wouldn't be using it.
I had heard that before, that Bill the Gates wanted everyone to use NT at work
and Win95 at home. But, in the words of my lovely wife, 'WHERE'S THE PROMPT SO
I CAN SEE WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON?' 😉
No, we don't know enough about NT yet. We will, we will.
-Eric
One of the coolest things we have going OS wise at in:sync right now is a
couple of PowerPC 604s running Windows NT underpinnings with the Windows '95
interface. Its really great.
>WinNT with the Windows '95 interface..<
Yah, I think that's what Autodesk was running at the big pavillion at SIGGRAPH,
wasn't it? Being the plodding c-prompt nerd that I am, I didn't know enough to
notice, but that's what they tell me…
Of course, this is only REALLY significant for all you MAC users out there,
right? 😉
-E
the 604 is the real deal right? If I remember right, it's the fast one on the
block.
How much did you pay for the workstations and how much did they cost?
Did you get them from IBM direct?
<<On Win95 being a small step on the way to WinNT: If that's the plan, then
why doesn't Microsoft SAY SO?>>
Its written in the wind <g>
<<Furthermore, won't any system that supports Win95 ALREADY support
WindowsNT??>>
Exactly, that is the plan, you see as more and more Win95 32-bit applications
are being developed they can be used automatically on WinNT. Microsoft is
slowly bridging the gap between the two operating systems. But the step is a
hardware one. If everyone had Pentium 90s with 16M then everyone could use a
more powerful operating system, i.e. WinNT, but unfortunately not everyone does
so Microsoft developed Win95 which is an improvement on Win3.1 but still not
yet WinNT, but one day they will integrate into one product. Until everyone has
the hardware to support WinNT many people will still NEED Win95 since WinNT
just can't run on their system.
<<but why not just make WinNT 'friendlier' rather than introducing yet another
variant that will make half the buyers happy and the other half mad as heck?>>
The "friendly" difference is just the interface, which WinNT will be adopting
the Win95 interface in a few months, so visually and interactively there will
be no difference. The other problem is once again a legacy issue. Microsoft
can't just tell everyone "Well we want everyone to buy new computers and throw
away their old ones for our new operating system." The world, especially the
business world, simply can't afford to make the jumpt from Win3.1 compatible
machines to WinNT machines since the cost is too prohibiting. Instead Win95
gives an interim step that allows some improvements in speed, ala 32-bit
applications, while at the same time allowing you to easily run these new
applications on faster machine equiped with WinNT.
<<Worse, why introduce another variant that's incompatible with NT?>>
But Win95 applications are compatible with WinNT. So you can make use of the
Win95 applications right now on WinNT. This is the key to making the switch.
You play around with your applications on Win95 then when you decide to upgrade
to WinNT your
existing applications still work. YOU decide when you want to make the
transition since your applications run on both systems.
<<Did this gentleman have any pressing need to spend $90 on an OS upgrade?
Nope. Do you think a tenth of the users out there really needed the
aggravation of moving to a new OS? Not likely. How many casual users REALLY
needed honest multitasking?>>
Then why give them WinNT? It does all that an more. Does this guy need C2
security and networking? Probably not, so he is going to choose Win95 since it
gives him everything he has now and some more.
No-one forces the users to buy the upgrade, if they are happy with what they've
got then don't change, but professional people need to increase
cost/productivity so upgrading to a better operating system is logical since
that is where the APPLICATIONS that these people use are going. The choice is
yours.
Nicely said, David.
-Alan
Greetings!
You raise valid points. I have just learned in the past two days that Win95
and WinNT are at least supposed to support the same code, with WinNT being the
more powerful for supporting multithreaded apps. Thus, what you say makes
sense. Perhaps we've been blinded by the marketing hype aimed at the great
unwashed masses, and simply haven't had the opportunity to (or the inclination
to) examine (or to be told about) the potential for a greater unified
upgrade/capability plan. I'd be curious if your opinions derive from (a)
first-hand knowledge, (b) an astute analysis of technical information and
marketing plans either unavailable to the greater number of users or not really
compiled in any single place or (c) careful guesses. I ask because NOTHING
I've read has presented any argument as coherent as yours, with the
consideration of the possible WinNT/95 connection. In fact, many columnists
and technical analysts have raised the same '95vsNT questions. What YOU say
makes sense, but what the columnists have presented, and what Microsoft's hype
implies, does not.
Then again, maybe our reluctance to embrace any Windows-based system is due to
the fact that we're just dinosaurs who like the c-prompt. 😉 Neither have we
really kept up-to-date on the literature over the past couple months, so we're
hopelessly behind the times. 😉
As Alan Iglesias has already said in fewer words, you are both articulate and
persuasive. Thanks for the comments.
-Eric
<<I'd be curious if your opinions derive from (a) first-hand knowledge, (b) an
astute analysis of technical information and marketing plans either unavailable
to the greater number of users or not really compiled in any single place or
(c) careful guesses.>>
Well I made these deductions myself. The biggest reason is that WinNT is
exactly that, New Technology, it is an operating system built from the ground
up. It is the most flexible operating system, possible outside of NextStep,
that exists on PCs. The reason being that Digital, who were really the
masterminds behind WinNT, have gleaned years of experience working with UNIX
and minicomputers that when they developed WinNT they overcame all of the
shortcomings that makes UNIX such a big mass of stick-ons and band-aids. UNIX
wasn't designed for rapid change neither in software or hardware advances,
whereas WinNT was designed specifically for this purpose.
For many years operating systems have lagged behind hardware and processor
developments. We've had 32bit processors for years now and yet only now is a
32bit operating system available to the masses. WinNT changes that with it's
HAL. If someone comes along tomorrow and develops a new processor then WinNT
can run on it by creating HAL for it. It's that simple.
Also with WinNTs client-server paradigm you can begin to taste what a true
object-oriented operating system can offer. You simply take out a component and
then add another. This is why WinNT can support any graphical interface it
wants. It is incredibly flexible.
This flexibility is what makes WinNT the future. Finally we have an operating
system that can keep up with the pace of technological change and Microsoft
always want to be riding the crest of this wave.
What is more blatant is that Cairo will be the next version of WinNT which will
be a true object oriented operating system, and this is the future whereas no
plans have been stated for making Win95 truely object oriented. So it is clear
where Microsoft is leading us, slowly but surely.
<<Then again, maybe our reluctance to embrace any Windows-based system is due
to the fact that we're just dinosaurs who like the c-prompt. ;-)>>
Very true, and the Win95 hate mail is surely piling up at Microsoft, but
frankly I don't think they care since all manufactures NEED to get their
"Designed for Windows 95" logo in order to stay competitive so all new
computers will have to Win95 compatible.
Hi David,
PMFJI, but in a recent article in InfoWorld, MS FINALLY revealed their future
plans for the Win95/NT connection. You're right in saying that 95 is simply a
"bridge" to get us all to NT, but I was surprised to learn that they intend to
keep developing 95 (96, 97??), using bits of the NT technology, for the
consumer market. Their goal is to have ALL proffesional users on NT. (the
bridge part of '95)
They came to the realization that one OS can't satisfy everyone. (Surprise)
If you'd like, I can fax you a copy of the article.
– Steve Ormonde
I've been reading through this this lengthy NT discussion. Good stuff! I'm
running a dual Micron P90 at work and am trying to switch over to NT. The only
thing that uses the duals so far is ACAD13. I'm getting a 4:1 increase on
rendering time over ACAD12 for windows 3.1. The down side is I lost my sound
card, corel 4 paint and havn't been able to get my PAR software and 3ds4
running in a NT dos window. I'm searching BBS's for NT drivers. I plan on
getting MAX and a DPS Perception card that run in NT.
If anyone else is going down this road please join in I could use the help.
Bye