CompuServe Thread

#Win95 vs WinNT

12 messages in this thread
#194015From: Eric C. PetersonOct 4, 1995 2:35 PM
Greetings! On Win95 being a small step on the way to WinNT: If that's the plan, then why doesn't Microsoft SAY SO? Furthermore, won't any system that supports Win95 ALREADY support WindowsNT?? I agree with you that the vast majority of systems out there would support Win 3.x but NOT WinNT, but why not just make WinNT 'friendlier' rather than introducing yet another variant that will make half the buyers happy and the other half mad as heck? Worse, why introduce another variant that's incompatible with NT? We've got stuff that's going to run under DOS for a long time. We've got stuff that will run under NT because that's what it does. We've got no pressing need whatsoever to work with Win95, and since half of what I've read has been overwhelmingly negative, we won't even try. I came to the conclusion that Win95 was just another way for Bill Gates to grab market share when I went to pick up a pizza last Saturday night and the guy behind the counter commented on my 'DOOM' tee-shirt like this: 'Oh, yeah, great game, but it was taking too much of my time so I wiped it when I upgraded my system to Win95' <strut, strut, puff puff>. Did this gentleman have any pressing need to spend $90 on an OS upgrade? Nope. Do you think a tenth of the users out there really needed the aggravation of moving to a new OS? Not likely. How many casual users REALLY needed honest multitasking? Sorry. I figure if I were the richest man in the world my idea of what the world NEEDED would be skewed, too. Just ask 'Bob'. Disclaimer: The other half of what I've read about Win95 has been positive. Likewise, while half my casual-user friends rave about Win95, the other half either tried to return it or threw it away. I'm probably biased by the fact that we MUST use WinNT here, and by the fact that we'd probably wind up with three boot partitions even if it worked flawlessly. A godsend for the masses? More power to them. Hope the install goes well. 😉 -Eric
#194040From: Chris NormanOct 4, 1995 4:55 PM
It is Mico$ofts short-term plan to move everyone to NT @ work, and '95 at home. You're right, most people really don't _have_ to upgrade to '95 from 3.1x, but they will eventually. Everybody will move away from DOS. Realize that NT is not your run of the mill OS. This is UNIX in sheeps clothing. And hell yes it's going to be picky about the hardware because unlike every operating system for the PC, NT talks directly to the hardware. An NT driver is only there to tell NT "how" to talk to the hardware. Also, In order to maintain it's C2 level security, NT wants to know exactly what's in the machine. '95 is for your home office, or you family computer. Sure, it's 32bit. But the API in '95 has much more functions than the other systems. The real heart of the matter is OLE. NT and '95 are MUCH better with OLE than 3.1x. OLE is future. Even for MAX.
#194075From: Eric C. PetersonOct 4, 1995 7:42 PM
Thanks for the comments. We understood that NT was 'serious' software. Else all the serious graphics developers wouldn't be using it. I had heard that before, that Bill the Gates wanted everyone to use NT at work and Win95 at home. But, in the words of my lovely wife, 'WHERE'S THE PROMPT SO I CAN SEE WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON?' 😉 No, we don't know enough about NT yet. We will, we will. -Eric
#194080From: Eron Bruce CohenOct 4, 1995 8:44 PM
One of the coolest things we have going OS wise at in:sync right now is a couple of PowerPC 604s running Windows NT underpinnings with the Windows '95 interface. Its really great.
#194099From: Eric C. PetersonOct 4, 1995 11:25 PM
>WinNT with the Windows '95 interface..< Yah, I think that's what Autodesk was running at the big pavillion at SIGGRAPH, wasn't it? Being the plodding c-prompt nerd that I am, I didn't know enough to notice, but that's what they tell me… Of course, this is only REALLY significant for all you MAC users out there, right? 😉 -E
#194157From: Chris NormanOct 5, 1995 10:17 AM
the 604 is the real deal right? If I remember right, it's the fast one on the block. How much did you pay for the workstations and how much did they cost? Did you get them from IBM direct?
#194380From: David GouldOct 7, 1995 4:43 AM
<<On Win95 being a small step on the way to WinNT: If that's the plan, then why doesn't Microsoft SAY SO?>> Its written in the wind <g> <<Furthermore, won't any system that supports Win95 ALREADY support WindowsNT??>> Exactly, that is the plan, you see as more and more Win95 32-bit applications are being developed they can be used automatically on WinNT. Microsoft is slowly bridging the gap between the two operating systems. But the step is a hardware one. If everyone had Pentium 90s with 16M then everyone could use a more powerful operating system, i.e. WinNT, but unfortunately not everyone does so Microsoft developed Win95 which is an improvement on Win3.1 but still not yet WinNT, but one day they will integrate into one product. Until everyone has the hardware to support WinNT many people will still NEED Win95 since WinNT just can't run on their system. <<but why not just make WinNT 'friendlier' rather than introducing yet another variant that will make half the buyers happy and the other half mad as heck?>> The "friendly" difference is just the interface, which WinNT will be adopting the Win95 interface in a few months, so visually and interactively there will be no difference. The other problem is once again a legacy issue. Microsoft can't just tell everyone "Well we want everyone to buy new computers and throw away their old ones for our new operating system." The world, especially the business world, simply can't afford to make the jumpt from Win3.1 compatible machines to WinNT machines since the cost is too prohibiting. Instead Win95 gives an interim step that allows some improvements in speed, ala 32-bit applications, while at the same time allowing you to easily run these new applications on faster machine equiped with WinNT. <<Worse, why introduce another variant that's incompatible with NT?>> But Win95 applications are compatible with WinNT. So you can make use of the Win95 applications right now on WinNT. This is the key to making the switch. You play around with your applications on Win95 then when you decide to upgrade to WinNT your existing applications still work. YOU decide when you want to make the transition since your applications run on both systems. <<Did this gentleman have any pressing need to spend $90 on an OS upgrade? Nope. Do you think a tenth of the users out there really needed the aggravation of moving to a new OS? Not likely. How many casual users REALLY needed honest multitasking?>> Then why give them WinNT? It does all that an more. Does this guy need C2 security and networking? Probably not, so he is going to choose Win95 since it gives him everything he has now and some more. No-one forces the users to buy the upgrade, if they are happy with what they've got then don't change, but professional people need to increase cost/productivity so upgrading to a better operating system is logical since that is where the APPLICATIONS that these people use are going. The choice is yours.
#194389From: ALAN IGLESIASOct 7, 1995 10:09 AM
Nicely said, David. -Alan
#194402From: Eric C. PetersonOct 7, 1995 3:16 PM
Greetings! You raise valid points. I have just learned in the past two days that Win95 and WinNT are at least supposed to support the same code, with WinNT being the more powerful for supporting multithreaded apps. Thus, what you say makes sense. Perhaps we've been blinded by the marketing hype aimed at the great unwashed masses, and simply haven't had the opportunity to (or the inclination to) examine (or to be told about) the potential for a greater unified upgrade/capability plan. I'd be curious if your opinions derive from (a) first-hand knowledge, (b) an astute analysis of technical information and marketing plans either unavailable to the greater number of users or not really compiled in any single place or (c) careful guesses. I ask because NOTHING I've read has presented any argument as coherent as yours, with the consideration of the possible WinNT/95 connection. In fact, many columnists and technical analysts have raised the same '95vsNT questions. What YOU say makes sense, but what the columnists have presented, and what Microsoft's hype implies, does not. Then again, maybe our reluctance to embrace any Windows-based system is due to the fact that we're just dinosaurs who like the c-prompt. 😉 Neither have we really kept up-to-date on the literature over the past couple months, so we're hopelessly behind the times. 😉 As Alan Iglesias has already said in fewer words, you are both articulate and persuasive. Thanks for the comments. -Eric
#194527From: David GouldOct 9, 1995 5:33 AM
<<I'd be curious if your opinions derive from (a) first-hand knowledge, (b) an astute analysis of technical information and marketing plans either unavailable to the greater number of users or not really compiled in any single place or (c) careful guesses.>> Well I made these deductions myself. The biggest reason is that WinNT is exactly that, New Technology, it is an operating system built from the ground up. It is the most flexible operating system, possible outside of NextStep, that exists on PCs. The reason being that Digital, who were really the masterminds behind WinNT, have gleaned years of experience working with UNIX and minicomputers that when they developed WinNT they overcame all of the shortcomings that makes UNIX such a big mass of stick-ons and band-aids. UNIX wasn't designed for rapid change neither in software or hardware advances, whereas WinNT was designed specifically for this purpose. For many years operating systems have lagged behind hardware and processor developments. We've had 32bit processors for years now and yet only now is a 32bit operating system available to the masses. WinNT changes that with it's HAL. If someone comes along tomorrow and develops a new processor then WinNT can run on it by creating HAL for it. It's that simple. Also with WinNTs client-server paradigm you can begin to taste what a true object-oriented operating system can offer. You simply take out a component and then add another. This is why WinNT can support any graphical interface it wants. It is incredibly flexible. This flexibility is what makes WinNT the future. Finally we have an operating system that can keep up with the pace of technological change and Microsoft always want to be riding the crest of this wave. What is more blatant is that Cairo will be the next version of WinNT which will be a true object oriented operating system, and this is the future whereas no plans have been stated for making Win95 truely object oriented. So it is clear where Microsoft is leading us, slowly but surely. <<Then again, maybe our reluctance to embrace any Windows-based system is due to the fact that we're just dinosaurs who like the c-prompt. ;-)>> Very true, and the Win95 hate mail is surely piling up at Microsoft, but frankly I don't think they care since all manufactures NEED to get their "Designed for Windows 95" logo in order to stay competitive so all new computers will have to Win95 compatible.
#194550From: Steve OrmondeOct 9, 1995 10:38 AM
Hi David, PMFJI, but in a recent article in InfoWorld, MS FINALLY revealed their future plans for the Win95/NT connection. You're right in saying that 95 is simply a "bridge" to get us all to NT, but I was surprised to learn that they intend to keep developing 95 (96, 97??), using bits of the NT technology, for the consumer market. Their goal is to have ALL proffesional users on NT. (the bridge part of '95) They came to the realization that one OS can't satisfy everyone. (Surprise) If you'd like, I can fax you a copy of the article. – Steve Ormonde
#196702From: Max J. Miller Jr.Oct 23, 1995 7:01 PM
I've been reading through this this lengthy NT discussion. Good stuff! I'm running a dual Micron P90 at work and am trying to switch over to NT. The only thing that uses the duals so far is ACAD13. I'm getting a 4:1 increase on rendering time over ACAD12 for windows 3.1. The down side is I lost my sound card, corel 4 paint and havn't been able to get my PAR software and 3ds4 running in a NT dos window. I'm searching BBS's for NT drivers. I plan on getting MAX and a DPS Perception card that run in NT. If anyone else is going down this road please join in I could use the help. Bye