#VLAB-M questions
13 messages in this thread
Dirk,
<<VLM has only one digital video stream and has to render ALL Effects. But
You can perform nearly all Ideas You have, because it is a full packed with
effect modules.>>
When you talk effects, are you talking 'Switcher Effects', Chromo FX, or
both? Can you give some examples or an idea of how much cleaner and spetacular
those effects are vs. the Toaster.
<<Has the Flyer any Modules for rendered 3D-Video Effects?>>
If you mean Switcher Effects, than yes there is Pro Wipes 1 & 2. I intend
to get both. I think they only work with 3.1/3.5, though. That's a big
advantage with VLM: a lot of stuff made for 3.1/3.5 doesn't work with the
latest 4.07 Toaster/Flyer.
Weeks away from a DKB Wildfire 68060/50. Can't wait!
Chris Shepard: 030/50 A2000 with Toaster 4000 & MacIIfx via Emplant.
Chris wrote:
When you talk effects, are you talking 'Switcher Effects', Chromo FX, or
both? Can you give some examples or an idea of how much cleaner and spetacular
those effects are vs. the Toaster.
—
I've never seen a toaster with my own eyes because of Newtek's ignorance to
make it only for NTSC, not for PAL which we use in Europe. Therefore I cannot
make comparisons between the picture quality of Flyer and VLM.
VLM comes with all the "classic" wipes and dissolves. Those who are available
on every video switcher. And it comes with a lot more effects which are
available only on switchers which are more expensive than the car that You are
dreaming of. 🙂
Rotating Pic, scaling pics, four little PIPs rotating in front of a background
scene. The Sky is the limit.
—
I asked:
<<Has the Flyer any Modules for rendered 3D-Video Effects?>>
Chris wrote:
If you mean Switcher Effects, than yes there is Pro Wipes 1 & 2. I intend to
get both. I think they only work with 3.1/3.5, though. That's a big advantage
with VLM: a lot of stuff made for 3.1/3.5 doesn't work with the latest 4.07
Toaster/Flyer.
I assume all these effects are performed in realtime using the toaster
capabilities. Am I right?
mfg
Dirk Taggesell
Dirk,
<<I assume all these effects are performed in realtime using the toaster
capabilities. Am I right?>>
Yes they are. Some Toaster effects by third parties aren't, but Pro Wipes
is advertised to work like standard Toaster effects. There's 3D effects,
wipes, fades, warp effects, matte effects, animated effects, and if I had a
4000—color effects. I've been impressed by what I've seen so far with the
Toaster. The effects don't look cheesy, and it's a far cry above what the
cable studio here uses for the Local Public Access channel.
BTW, our Public Access studio uses an Amiga 500 for it's titling. 🙂
Weeks away from a DKB Wildfire 68060/50. Can't wait!
Chris Shepard: 030/50 A2000 with Toaster 4000 & MacIIfx via Emplant.
Chris,
I think you may be miss understanding the connection of Video Toaster and
Vlab-M. I use both together and perhaps I can clear some things up.
The Vlab-M is a single video channel Digital Video Recorder. Its just like a
video deck but digital. Video is saved to HDs, not tape. So…. To do any kind
of live video FX going through a Toaster you'd need atleast three decks
(Vlab-Ms) of video. Two for play back, one for record. I know thats rediculous
:^) The Flyers got two video channels that will play back simultaneously so it
can use the Toasters FX live, but you still always gotta go to some kind of
tape for output. Normally VHS :^( if you expect general consumption. I hope I'm
not just confusing the issue. Let me just explain the way I got my
Toaster/Vlab-M systems linked. there are workarounds.
First I send a single channel of SVHS video into a Personal TBC, then feed a
composite signal from TBC to the Toasters Input 1. The video goes through the
Toaster and Many of the FX can be done live and the output from the Toasters
Program Out goes into the Vlab-M systems. Then it is recorded digitally for
further editting and FX if necissary. Many of the Toasters psuedo AB roll type
effects can be done live :^) Kinda. You just do the effect to the single
channel of video, then after the video is recorded with the Vlab-M you cut the
segments together right in the middle of the effect.
Hope I'm not confusing you more. The Toasters in an A2000/040 sys and the
Vlab-Ms in an A3000/040. I doubt both can be run in a single computer but I may
find out soon if I can get an 060/SCSI-2 board for my Vintage A2000. It may be
possible :^)
Later,
….John
<<So…. To do any kind of live video FX going through a Toaster you'd need
atleast three decks (Vlab-Ms) of video.>>
You mean…THREE Vlab-M boards?? Or do you mean 3 hard drives connected to
one board? If it's 3 boards then I can see why it's difficult.
<<The Flyers got two video channels that will play back simultaneously so it
can use the Toasters FX live, but you still always gotta go to some kind of
tape for output. Normally VHS…>>>
I can see why the Flyer is a much preferred, but expensive solution for the
Toaster. So when recording out, it has to be a tape? It can't be a CD-ROM,
DAT, or another hard drive connected to the Flyer? Perhaps a Laserdisc
player/recorder? I suppose the only way to keep the digital recording is to
have a VLAB as well as a Flyer. Mix with the Flyer/Toaster and record out to
the VLAB (or another Flyer). Now THAT would be one hell of a system (and
expensive too!) Am I on the right track now?
Waiting till Motorola decides to release that 68060.
Chris Shepard: 030/50 A2000 with Toaster 4000 & MacIIfx via Emplant.
Chis wrote:
You mean…THREE Vlab-M boards?? Or do you mean 3 hard drives connected to
one board? If it's 3 boards then I can see why it's difficult.
John Bennett explained a really strange kind of editiing.
And he gives away the advantage of Y/C when going into the toaster with CVBS.
This will lower the signal quality significantly.
But nobody would consider three VLM's seriously for editing that can do one of
them. At least due to the fact that one amiga can control only one VLM and it
will be nearly impossible to use a toaster and a VLM in one amiga. The VLM
causes a very strong bus load during playing and recording so that i would
beleave that the toaster wouldn't work properly at this time unless You lower
the VLM Quality (and so the amount of video data) which gives a bad picture
quality.
Chris wrote:
Mix with the Flyer/Toaster and record out to the VLAB (or another Flyer). Now
THAT would be one hell of a system (and expensive too!)
:-)))
Regadrs,
Dirk Taggesell
Dirk,
The way I'm running my Toaster/Vlab-M Systems now won't really do much better
than good VHS quality video anyways. Vlab-Ms in an A3000/040 using native SCSI.
I'm not a Pro so broadcast quality doesn't much matter to me yet. Its taken
years too put together and learn how to run the stuff I got. My real job takes
up about 10 hours a day then of cousre there CI$.. :^)
After I upgrade to an 060/SCSI-2 sys maybe I can handle S-Video throughout.
PS Have you senn any A1200 on the shelves from AT/Escom ????
Later,
….John
John wrote:
PS Have you senn any A1200 on the shelves from AT/Escom ????
We will get our ordered A1200 this week (as reported by A-Tech).
Chris,
Actually you could start with a conventional AB roll controler system for the
input and control of the Toaster and just let the Program out go to the Vlab-M.
This could cause generation loss before even going digital. :^(
The way I've done effcts live with the Toaster are definately kinda
unconventional but not that difficult or costly. Basically I feed the video
through the Toaster before going into the Vlab-M. I can add many of the
Toasters effects or add CG with AlphaPaint. Works OK, but its not a Flyer.
The Playback of your editted source from Vlab-M or Flyer have to be recorded to
some other device unless you want to carry around your NLE sys for playback.
DAT or CD could be used for archiving but the files will need to be reloaded
and played back from source NLE. Theres no real universal format for Digital
Video yet. An Ideal system would be a digital camera where he files could be
transfered where ever you want for editting etc. Then back out to some digital
tape format that would playback on consumer decks or broadcast quality.
Basically Flyer can do live AB Toaster effects cause it can play back 2
channels of video at a time. Vlab-M can't, it has to render all effects. Like
the PC-Toaster or many other systems.
Thats what they *May* make 060s for……
….John
John wrote:
First I send a single channel of SVHS video into a Personal TBC, then feed a
composite signal from TBC to the Toasters Input 1.
Does this mean that the Toaster has NO Y/C-Connectors? Now I know, why Newtek
hasn't made any PAL-Toaster.
They couldn't sell one piece of it in germany without Y/C connectors.
John wrote:
The video goes through the Toaster and Many of the FX can be done live and the
output from the Toasters Program Out goes into the Vlab-M systems. Then it is
recorded digitally for further editting and FX if necissary.
But for this A/B Roll You have to have two video decks as players and You must
have the possibility to control them and You also need to have timecode on this
tapes.
And with the conversion to composite Ylou lose a decent amount of video
quality.
I wouldn't do this if I had a VLM (and, I have one 🙂
Your concept sounds very strange to me.
regards,
Dirk Taggesell
Dirk,
Stock Toasters are CVBS only :^( But its Good CVBS :^) There are S-Video I/O
boards for the Toaster but its still Composite through the Toaster.
I do Psuedo A/B roll effects with only one source deck and use Movieshop to
splice the segments together. You know what I mean? I just use the Toaster as
an up-stream Switcher/Keyer for CG going into the Vlab-M.
Later,
….John
John wrote:
Stock Toasters are CVBS only :^( But its Good CVBS :^) There are S-Video I/O
boards for the Toaster but its still Composite through the Toaster.
Which sense does it make to waste money for an I/O board that doesn't do
anything than a normal video deck (all of them have CVBS I/O for themselves)
can?
Dirk,
Avideo signal must be sent through a TBC before it can be used by the Toasters
inputs. I let the TBC do the SVHS/CVBS conversion go through Toaster then to
VLab-M :^) Comes out decent.
A substantial difference can be seen whn going through non-stock I/O boards for
the Toaster. Pros can tell the difference.
Later,
….John