#JAZ : Good Stuff !
36 messages in this thread
Just wanted to let everyone looking for a good, fast storage solution that the
JAZ drive from Iomega is something to think about. It's not out yet, but will
be soon. I've been beta testing it for about a month under WIN95 and I have to
say, for me, it's really great.
The one I have is a SCSI device, I can't remember if it will be available as a
parallel device. It can connect to a PCI adapter with fast SCSI-2 connectors. I
have it hooked up to a soundblaster SCSI-2 ASP and it works fine.
The speed is really impressive. I played a 100 meg .mov on both my hard drive
(WD 31200) and on the JAZ and only lost about a second. This is without the
caching that will be available at final release. BTW, my system is a DX4-100 VL
Bus board.
Some Specs (these may have changed since my beta came out )
Average Seek Time 10 msec (read)
12 msec (write)
Average Access Time 15.7 msec
Sustained Transfer Rate 6.7 MB/sec max
5.5 MB/sec avg
3.5 MB/sec min
I believe PC Connections is taking pre-release orders.
Just something to think about or look into,
Paul
>Just wanted to let everyone looking for a good, fast storage solution that the
JAZ drive from Iomega is something to think about.<
I considered getting one after reading an article in Videography a few months
ago. Since the transfer rate seems to be above the range the PVR requires I
thought it may make a nice drive for a PVR setup. The problem is the amount of
storage per disk. The Jaz may be nice for Quick Time or AVI files, but for
serious video work I don't think they will cut it. If you could use the whole
1GB Jaz disk you would only get 4 minutes of video. If you use it for TGA
frames you can only hold 900-1000 frames, about 30 seconds of video.
The Jaz drive costs $499 and the 1 GB cartridges are $99. If you want 4GB of
storage it will cost $800, assuming the Jaz comes with 1 cartridge. You can get
a 4GB SCSI HD for $999, but that is on one drive.
>whole 1GB Jaz disk you would only get 4 minutes of video<
I have used the JAZ w/ my 1.6 gig PAR drive and I can get approximately 10 min.
of .ani's on to it. Your lower compression (granted, higher quality) does mean
you'll get a lot less onto a disk.
I should mention that by no means do I suggest the JAZ for .ani backup only. I
use it for the hundreds of megs of data created in the civil projects I work
on. I use it for my Photoshop files that are easily 25 meg. each, a poster
board presentation can easily incorporate 10 or 15 of these size files. Any
reasonably large animation project can have one hundred megs of project files,
texture maps and so on. Most of us try to create a library of models and
textures, pop out one disk and pop in another. It could be used as a quick way
to back up and keep data stored in a different location to prevent lost time
after a catastrophy (fire, flood, whatever). I use it to back up my entire hard
drive in one shot, quick and easy , as well as very accessible.
These are just a few uses for this high capacity, fast, easily transported
device.
How do you back up all of your data? Do you buy a SCSI drive for each anim. or
do you use tapes or a rerecordable CD? How many gigs of data do you need to
back up weekly? Just curious about your solutions.
Paul
>These are just a few uses for this high capacity, fast, easily transported
device.<
>How do you back up all of your data? Do you buy a SCSI drive for each anim. or
do you use tapes or a rerecordable CD? How many gigs of data do you need to
back up weekly? Just curious about your solutions.<
The ideal removable media device for me has low cost media, large capacity, and
reasonable speed. The Jaz drive has very good capacity and excellent speed, but
the cartridges are expensive. A CD-R has good speed, OK capacity, but higher
cost hardware. A DAT drive has excellent capacity, good speed, and cheap media.
I have an HP C1533a DAT that stores 4-8GB (max 16GB) on a $15 tape and has a
45MB/min read/write speed. The external model cost me $800.
In my opinion the Jaz tries to satisfy both hard drive and tape backup duties
with one unit. The problem is you get greater capacity with a hard drive and
lower cost with a tape drive.
To store 4 GB of data on a hard drive will cost $1000, Jaz would be $800, and
DAT would be $800. That is roughly the same price. The more storage you want
the cheaper it gets for DAT, $15/4GB, the Jaz would be $400 for another 4GB.
The way I work I have a couple of gigs online for current projects, and backup
data to DAT. I don't want to store data long term on a $99 cartridge, that is
expensive and adds up quick if you keep many files.
In the end it is up to the individual user to determine what will work best for
them.
Tim:
>> A CD-R has good speed, OK capacity, but higher cost hardware.
>> A DAT drive has excellent capacity, good speed, and cheap media.
A couple of extras to throw into the equation: CD-R media is going for $8-$10
per disk, pretty cheap, and the Pinnacle is around $1,200 these days. But the
main reasons we switched are the longevity of the media (Kodak says 100 years,
I'd be happy with 25!) and the fact that not only can anyone in our office
easily read back the disks (non-linear!) on their own machine, but I can send a
disk anywhere in the world and know that it can be read, something I can never
do with a tape!
There are too many non-standard, non-compatible backup programs out there, and
I know that I can go cross-platform much easier with a CD. Works for me! :^)
Greg Pyros
Greg:
There's a new CD-R from HP coming out this month, the HP SureStore CD-Writer
4020i, that has an expected street price of $1,099. It will come with Easy-CD
(Win file manager extension to transfer files to CD), Alchemy Personal (custom
database program w/ runtime engine), Magic Lantern (Photo-CD viewer) and
Easy-CD audio (create custom audio disks).
It will conform to Red Book/Digital Audio, Yellow Book/CD-ROM, Green
Book/Interactive, Orange Book/CD-MO and CD-WO, Orange Book/CD-R, White
Book/Video CD and ISO 9060 logical file formats. HP's media should be street
priced at $12.
I take it you picked up a Pinnacle? Want to tell us how much you love/hate it
and it's bundled software (or lack thereof)?
Dave
Dave:
>> I take it you picked up a Pinnacle?
Yes.
>> Want to tell us how much you love/hate it and it's bundled software
>> (or lack thereof)?
It has a few idiosyncracies, but overall, it does what it is supposed to do.
It's saved me many hassles in transferring files to other firms, and we are
changing over all our SyQuest backups to CD. We then make two copies, leave
one at the office, and take the other home for safekeeping. Holds much more
than a SyQuest, and comparing $10 650meg media to $70 120meg media is a no-
brainer.
I found that the Pinnacle is much happier in 1x mode than 2x, but the extra
time is not a problem, and I'd rather have it finish the disk than get the
dreaded "buffer underrun" error message.
Overall, it's fine. Never had anything to compare it to, though! :^)
Big question on the HP – can it read RAW data? (Necessary for true digital
audio input, sound effects, etc. The Pinnacle can write but can't read audio.)
Greg Pyros
Greg:
>>We then make two copies…
Exactly my plan!
The HP is a 4x player and 2x writer. Whatever I get, probably around the first
of the year, I'm planning on picking up an ACS external SCSI unit (probably w/
a 2Gb Micropolis AV drive in it) to feed it with.
[BTW, there was a discussion a while back involving AlanI, MartinF (I think)
and some others, myself included, regarding crashes w/ our Micropolis 4Gb 3243
drives. Well, (I was just reminded of this, from mentioning Micropolis above)
there was a little article in PCWEEK a couple weeks ago that there were a
number of problems with people either getting 3243's that were DOA or that
would die screaming, like AlanI's and mine. Turns out that it was a problem w/
the spindle assemblies. Anyway, they've changed spindle manufacturers, and the
problem is supposedly solved. They're doing free overnight replacements to
those that request them directly. I need to get them called and try to check
via serial number if the drives I've got now have good or bad spindles. I'd
rather not go through re-constructing the server again if I don't have to.]
>>can it read RAW?
Once the product is officially released, I'll see what more info I can find.
Thanks,
Dave
>> There's a new CD-R from HP coming out this month,
>> the HP SureStore CD-Writer 4020i, that has an expected
>> street price of $1,099.
>> HP's media should be street priced at $12.
USA*Flex (Computer Shopper, Nov. '95, last pages) is advertising the HP
SureStore CD-Writer 4020i from Colorado Memory Systems Inc., a division of
Hewlett Packard.
Quoting from the ad:
——————–
The HP SureStore CD Writer explodes the myth that writing to CDs is a hit and
miss proposition. With its 2 MB of buffer and industry leading easy-to-use
software, anyone can write to CDs successfully every time.
o Automatic Software Installation
o Advanced SCSI-2 included
o Tray Loading Mechanism
o Highest Rated MTBF in the industry
o 4X Read Rate
o 4X Write Rate
Advertised Price: $999
3M 550 MB blanks — $8.45 (25 or more)
3M 650 MB blanks — $8.95 (25 or more)
Albert:
About the HP:
>> o 4X Read Rate
>> o 4X Write Rate
Can you verify this? Someone posted a notice last week that it was 4X read but
only 2X write…
Greg Pyros
>> Can you verify this? Someone posted a notice last week
>> that it was 4X read but only 2X write…
I have seen another writer that does 2X writes and 4X reads but don't recall
the make just now.
I can verify that the ad says 4X Read and 4X Write because I am looking at it
as I type.
Two possible ways to check on what I say is to call:
USA*FLEX @ 800.944.5599
Hewlett-Packard Pre-Sales Product Information 800.752.0900
P.S. Ads don't have wrong info, do they <g>???
Albert:
>> P.S. Ads don't have wrong info, do they <g>???
Never! :^) I think David Rhoten cleared this up, in fact, I think it was his
original post where I saw the specs. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who
bought an HP as to how well it works, I've heard the software leaves a bit to
be desired.
On the other hand, the Pinnacle has a bit of a heat problem, especially in
Pinnacle's own external case. <bg> Cool it down a bit, and it will do 2X
recordings with the best of them.
I don't know that the 4X reading is of much value, I don't know anyone who
would use a CD-ROM recorder on a regular basis just to read CDs.
Greg Pyros
Hi Greg-
>> I'd be curious to hear from anyone who bought an HP as to how well it
works, I've heard the software leaves a bit to be desired.<<
I purchased an HP CD-R and am expecting delivery this week. It Reads 4x and
writes 2X. In my research for NT drivers for this thing I have found that Incat
software (the developers of Easy-CD that ships with the unit) makes a specific
driver for NT and 95 that retails for $149.00. Owners of the Hp on the HPSYS
Forum have advised that HP will automatically upgrade the software in December.
So far everybody is raving about the SureStore CD-R.
I decided on the HP as I know they make great products, and I had heard lots of
negatives from Pinnacle owners (not reliable).
I'll keep you all advised as to my experiences.
Mike
Albert:
I think there must have been a typo in the ad, cause according to the press
release I got off of HP' web page, the SureStore is a "4x CD reader and 2x CD
recorder".
Other than that, the price sounds great! Thanks for the tip!
Dave
>A couple of extras to throw into the equation: CD-R media<
All very good points. With cheap media, the downside of on-write is no longer a
problem. HP just came out with a nice unit for around $1100.
>There are too many non-standard, non-compatible backup programs out there, and
I know that I can go cross-platform much easier with a CD. Works for me!<
True! Backup standards for tape are a hassle, and obviously CD-ROM's are
cheaper, and more prevalent than Jaz, MO's, etc. (but not as fast)
One hidden issue with CD-R's is the HD you record from.. Do you have a special
AV drive that you record off of?
I'll be coming out your way to AU this year. The courses sound great, and
it'll be good to meet you. ( and everyone else 🙂
JNJ
John:
>> One hidden issue with CD-R's is the HD you record from.. Do you have a
special AV drive that you record off of? <<
There are a couple of ways to record CD's as you know but one doesn't
necessarily need an AV drive. I'm using an ordinary SCSI drive and the write
speed is not so much affected by the drive's speed but by other factors.
Defragging a drive is often suggested before recording from it. Setting the
read buffer size large enough before a record is a big factor in determining if
the drive can record in 2X speed or higher vs. 1X. If the software uses free
hard disk space for buffering then the amount of free space will weigh in to
record times. Depending on the burner and the software you chose to interface
with it you'll have other factors that play havoc with record speed and
ability. I was thinking the JAZ drive would be great for CD 'buffer' space as
another of its many uses.
– Bob Ritger
>I was thinking the JAZ drive would be great for CD 'buffer' space as another
of its many uses.<
Yes, and has good sustained transfer for higher speed recording too.
JNJ
Bob:
What did you end up getting? A Pinnacle?
Dave
Dave:
Nope, the Kodak PCD 225. In today's market I don't think I would pass up the
new HP or 2nd choice would be the Pinnacle RCD100.
– Bob Ritger
I'm using Topix for mastering on a Sony 920, and it has a "test" mode that lets
you confirm the disk-to-CDR transfer process to make sure your drive isn't
recalibrating during the write…
John:
I've been using Corel's CD-Creator and it also has a test mode which will
simulate the write and let you know of potential problems.
– Bob Ritger
JNJ:
>> One hidden issue with CD-R's is the HD you record from..
>> Do you have a special AV drive that you record off of?
No, a standard IDE drive on that machine. No problems. I'd recommend a CD-R
to everyone who asks about storage and compatibility!
Greg Pyros
Greg,
Do you record in 2X or 1X?
JNJ
JNJ:
>> Do you record in 2X or 1X?
I've tried both, the 2X is 95%, the 1X is 100%, so since time is rarely an
issue, I just set it to 1X and go to lunch!
Greg Pyros
>2X is 95%, the 1X is 100%<
% reliable?
JNJ
JNJ:
>> >> 2X is 95%, the 1X is 100%
>> % reliable?
Yes!
Greg Pyros
Paul:
Thanks for the timely post on the JAZ drive. I'm looking to pick up one when
they are available.
– Bob Ritger
Something else I have read is the JAZ doesn't have to do a thermal
recalibration. Also, If you want better performance from your JAZ, hook it up
to a SCSI-2 controller, as the JAZ is a standard SCSI-2 device.
Which brings up posibilites.
Situation: Non linear editor. You bring in all your video. Your editing. In
runs the boss, "I want this yesterday!"
If everything I've read is true, here is something to consider.
5 JAZ drives in a RAID configuration. Now you've got space, speed, and
flexibility.
Solution: You say, "No prob boss man!". you eject your carts, put a rubber band
around them, and shelve them. Pop in 5 more, and go to work.
I hope to get two and a PCI SCSI-2 controller that'll do RAID.
I think this will work!
>JAZ drives in a RAID configuration. Now you've got space, speed, and
flexibility.<
I've already seen them out. 🙂 Check Videography, or other MAC-centric (and
often annoyingly so) TV pubs, and check the back ads. I'll find them for you,
if you'd like. (reply during the week)
I wonder about a JAZ array and a PVR..(and mabe Speed Razor, etc.) I'd think
it would be a killer setup for a multiproject/multiuser edit station.
Does anyone know if it'll support SCSI-0? (boot drive) The Zip only has
something like ID 3 and 4. That'd be kinda interesting. 🙂
JNJ
Here at the firm, I am lead graphics/presentation technologies producer. Not
only do we do animations, but demonstrative evidence and interactive courtroom
presentations.
I've seen the ads. And that is exactly my point. You build a hot rod machine
with your digital editing hardware, throw in a couple of JAZ drives, and
eureka!
Because the JAZ doesn't have to do thermal recalibration, it's a great product.
Yeah, the Jaz sounds great, and the lack of t-cal makes it even better.
JNJ
Sorry, I just saw that you have it hooked up to SCSI-2…
But that is ISA, right?
>But that is ISA, right?<
That's correct Chris and it is still very fast. With your PCI SCSI-2 controller
it should scream.
Paul
Hi. My dad's looking to get more storage space so we can do more video, and the
JAZ looks promising. One question though, can you only use one disk at a time?
As in if we were creating a video, when it got to a part that used video on the
Jaz, would we be prompted for the correct disk?
I guess kinda like when you don't have the right cd in your drive. Or would
it act as only one drive, so we could only use it as a gig. In more simpler
terms, would we be able to use its multi gig capabilities doing video?
I hope this makes sense,
thanks
Jason
Sorry Jason,
I don't have an answer for you. I have the feeling that it's related to the
software you're using to create your videos, but I'm not sure.
Paul